[AwkwardStereo] Seth Deces - Crewmembers > Borgs

[Hoolny]

BYOND account:Hoolny
Character name:Seth Deces
Ban type: Sever
Ban length: 3 days
Ban reason:
Time ban was placed: 2022-06-8 02:51:14
Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil
Round ID in which ban was placed:184531
Why you think you should be unbanned:
I understand why I was banned I just don't think the length of time is justified by the amount of harm and round impact I caused.

Human VS Borg Replacement

I do belief that borgs and humans are different when it comes to escalation, you kill a human you need to patch them up defibrillate them deal with blood loss, toxin damage and husking and missing organs just to name a few. You kill a human with no trace there is no coming back.

In contrast you kill a borg no big deal you send them to robotics or you yourself, boot them back then they easily regenerate full health and their good to go, you kill a borg with no trace still no big deal, the will probably get to spawn like nothing happen in robotics if their is roboticist which is very likely if there is borgs.

Borgs are simply pieces of equipment to be used and dispose of, humans though they are not replaceable you kill a botanist there is no more plants, you kill literary any other human now you missed useful multiuse hands for the general assignment they were given of, there is no replacing him outside of another human coming to the station which will probably won't hold the same position as the previous human you killed. A borg 2 more will come with enough resources and not that many resources.

Human VS Borg Escalation

If somebody grabs an RCD and locks you inside those metal walls, at that point they have escalated things enough to the point you can attack them why is it any different with the borg it locked me in place and so it started a confrontation and so I escalate it.

Borg laws aren't the same as laws

You could say "well it was following its laws" Borgs following their laws don't stop them from being criminals, you wouldn't say the same if a borg with laws to kill all humans killed a human although they are protect OOC since its their laws, they are not protected IC and so they can be killed and so this borg I killed can be killed for breaking the laws.

Borg Enemy Assistance

The person in question I attacked and many others tried to attack was running around hallways making them constantly slippery and any one who tried to stop them was confronted with lethal force, that's reason enough to believe their an enemy of the corporation, as they say act like an antag be treated as an antag

By the borg helping the person in question escape it so helped an antag escape from justice and ones who help criminals must be treated as much as the severity of the other criminals crime and the other criminal was very much valid making this borg valid.

Even if the borg was following its laws it doesn't change the fact that it committed a crime, if you do indeed believe borgs are in pair with humans and they should be treated as equals then why cannot the borg suffer the full extend of the laws.

Borgs Expendable life

When it comes to the borgs behavior it stood there as it was being attacked there was no movement at all, It wanted to die so why was it wrong killing it if it wanted to live it would have moved probably because it knew even if it died it could have easily come back a few seconds, at maximum a few minutes back and do its job once again it knows its expendable and it knows his life isn't as worth as any normal crewmembers lives.

Human dying

So after I was critted by the person the borg helped escape I was in medical treated for my wounds took a few minutes plus them taking me there and oh no medic forgets how blodloss works I started dying to oxygen damage and so I stood there in stasis, then when blood was given to my oh no wrong type of blood now I'm dying to toxins then after a few more minutes the shuttle is less than half way through the station I was put in a cryo sleeper to fix my toxin damage and ooh more oxygen damage since I still do not have enough blood and so I died there, until I was banned for the aggression I committed I would probably have stayed death or crit for the entirety of the round.

Borg dying

After it died another medical borg came and I told them to revive it then it dragged it to robotics where I suppose it was revived, within seconds at worst 2 minutes then its was fine surviving atmos and doing whatever that was it for it.

Summary

Borgs are not the same as human not at all they should be treated according to their actions, even if their following its laws and if you are not willing to accept borgs following laws, then you are admitting to the fact borgs and humans are not the same and so they shouldn't be treated the same in escalation terms.


I would have explained all my reasoning in the Ahelp, but that wouldn't be really a proper place to talk about this so I waited to post on here.

[AwkwardStereo]

Ordinarilly an unjustified kill only warrants a 24 hour ban. In this specific circumstance I felt it more appropriate to be more heavy handed issuing the ban. I still believe this to be the case and will be denying this appeal. I am treating this not only as you running afoul of Escalation Policy, but also Rule 1 and Silicon Metaprotections.

I do belief that borgs and humans are different when it comes to escalation...

This would be news to me.

In contrast you kill a borg no big deal you send them to robotics or you yourself, boot them back then they easily regenerate full health and their good to go, you kill a borg with no trace still no big deal, the will probably get to spawn like nothing happen in robotics if their is roboticist which is very likely if there is borgs.

The entire point of the ban was that the Borg should not have been killed to begin with. Silicon players have to swallow shit by the shovel-full, smile, and say "Thank you sir, may I have some more?" How easily it is to reintroduce them, or the lacking of in-round consequences thereafter, are entirely irrelevant.

Borgs are simply pieces of equipment to be used and dispose of...

Borgs are not simply pieces of equipment. We are playing a video game and behind that Borg is another human being. One restricted in how they can respond more stringently than a non-Silicon.

If somebody grabs an RCD and locks you inside those metal walls, at that point they have escalated things enough to the point you can attack them why is it any different with the borg it locked me in place and so it started a confrontation and so I escalate it.

You started the conflict with the Asimov Borg when you started smashing in a human's skull with a crowbar in their presence. They are required not only by their laws ICly, but OOCly by Server Policy to intervene. They do not get a choice in whether they decide to involve themselves like non-Silicons. More players like you need to recognize that when Silicons are present or observing, you need to change how you act lest you provoke conflict with them by committing actions they are required to intervene with where their laws compel them to.

The person in question I attacked and many others tried to attack was running around hallways making them constantly slippery and any one who tried to stop them was confronted with lethal force, that's reason enough to believe their an enemy of the corporation, as they say act like an antag be treated as an antag

Asimov Silicons do not recognize criminality or Space Law. Their laws define their behavior and how they should be interacting with defined entities. More relevant to the events that transpired, protected entities under their laws. The Borg, under Asimov, is not allowed to make an exemption for a human because they committed a crime, even if they are a murderer or a human assaulting people harmfully. They are still entitled to protections under Asimov, but certain options like Law 2 commands become unavailable to them as they posit a risk of Law 1 infractions. More importantly, this Borg spent all of their time in Research trying to help people with ExperiSci and in Medbay fixing the person that you critically, and falsely, assaulted earlier in the shift. They had no frame of reference for what was going on aside from "human harming human".

An Asimov Borg attempting to seperate two people from harming each other and then tending to the bleeding wounds of one of them (you) is not at all behaving like an Antag.

By the borg helping the person in question escape it so helped an antag escape from justice and ones who help criminals must be treated as much as the severity of the other criminals crime and the other criminal was very much valid making this borg valid.

Don’t kill Asimov borgs for trying to stop harm, unless they are being excessively disruptive.

While this line is exclusive to Security Policy, I do not believe it defines only behavior for Security Players. Rather, it is a reminder that in the baser rules, you should not be killing Borgs for following their laws. Its pointed out in Security Policy because that department attracts a great deal of dentheads. Seperating you and the person you were assaulting by bolting doors so they could prevent you two from harming each other and also to treat your bleeding injury is not in the realm of excessively disruptive. This warped perception that Asimov Borgs protecting people from criminals makes them valid is part of what landed you here. This isn't to say you can't act against them, but killing them when they were presenting no risk to your life and were in fact trying to heal you is so absolutely beyond acceptable.

When it comes to the borgs behavior it stood there as it was being attacked there was no movement at all, It wanted to die so why was it wrong killing it if it wanted to live it would have moved probably because it knew even if it died it could have easily come back a few seconds, at maximum a few minutes back and do its job once again it knows its expendable and it knows his life isn't as worth as any normal crewmembers lives.

Why did you keep hitting it if it obviously wasn't doing anything but asking you to stop and treat your bleeding injury? The Borg did not have a choice to just disengage with you because you were bleeding. It cannot, through inaction, allow harm to come to you. Bloodloss is harm. It could not leave if it wanted to.

This becomes immediately relevant moments later...

So after I was critted by the person the borg helped escape I was in medical treated for my wounds took a few minutes plus them taking me there and oh no medic forgets how blodloss works I started dying to oxygen damage and so I stood there in stasis, then when blood was given to my oh no wrong type of blood now I'm dying to toxins then after a few more minutes the shuttle is less than half way through the station I was put in a cryo sleeper to fix my toxin damage and ooh more oxygen damage since I still do not have enough blood and so I died there, until I was banned for the aggression I committed I would probably have stayed death or crit for the entirety of the round.

If you hadn't killed the Borg it would have been alive to cauterize the wound and aid in your recovery, like its Laws dictated it had to anyway.

Borgs are not the same as human not at all they should be treated according to their actions, even if their following its laws and if you are not willing to accept borgs following laws, then you are admitting to the fact borgs and humans are not the same and so they shouldn't be treated the same in escalation terms.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Borgs and Humans are not the same, literally speaking. If we're talking about treating things according to their actions, it is wholly unnecessary to kill a Borg that was trying to protect you and treat your injuries when it offered no resistance. They sat there and died because they know deep down they are obligated by server policy and their laws to protect you and the only thing you had to say was "FUCK YOU BORG" and kill it. Whether they like it or not, they must do these things lest they get ahelped for ignoring human harm, which so frequently happens in even the most inane of circumstances. The Borg did not even have a choice of leaving you because you were still bleeding. It stood there and died because the player behind the Borg had to sit there and watch as the moron it was trying to protect bitched, moaned, and killed it for daring to get between them and a valid.


While I do not believe you maliciously attempted to entrap the Borg in a situation so you could kill it, you did very short sightedly decide to kill it because it denied you a kill against someone you thought was valid. How can you so obviously not see that the Borg was trying to help you, and how can you hold that against it to the degree to kill it while it didn't resist or even move?


Relevant logs for the incident collated from you, the Borg, and the person you were fighting.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[2022-06-08 02:30:52.619] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has grabbed Dellphenex/(Isiah Chauvin) passive grab (NEWHP: 18.5)  (Medbay Central (94,104,2))
[2022-06-08 02:30:53.126] ATTACK: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) has attacked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with the space beer (NEWHP: 85)  (Medbay Central (94,103,2))
[2022-06-08 02:30:53.341] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has punched Plusk/(Christoph Railde) (NEWHP: 92.5)  (Medbay Central (95,104,2))
[2022-06-08 02:30:53.343] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has got a stun punch with their previous punch Plusk/(Christoph Railde) (NEWHP: 92.5)  (Medbay Central (95,104,2))
[2022-06-08 02:30:55.342] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Plusk/(Christoph Railde) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 83.5)  (Medbay Central (95,104,2))
[2022-06-08 02:30:55.403] ATTACK: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) has kicked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) (NEWHP: 81.6)  (Medbay Central (95,104,2))
[2022-06-08 02:30:56.395] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Plusk/(Christoph Railde) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 74.5)  (Medbay Central (94,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:30:56.998] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has suffered: Open Laceration to head | Damage: 15 (rolled 31/44.3127) | WB: 15 | BWB: 15 (Medbay Central (93,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:30:56.999] ATTACK: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) has attacked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with butcher's cleaver (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 66.6)  (Medbay Central (92,104,2))
[2022-06-08 02:30:57.366] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Plusk/(Christoph Railde) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 65.5)  (Medbay Central (93,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:02.288] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has flashed(targeted) Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with the flash (NEWHP: 67.2)  (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:04.663] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has bolted [Medbay Clinic] (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:04.879] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has bolted [Medbay Clinic] (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:07.126] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has bolted [Pharmacy] (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:07.541] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "BITCH" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:10.176] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "YOU ARE SUCJH" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:10.825] ATTACK: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) has transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/c2/libital (2u, 0.75 purity) and /datum/reagent/medicine/granibitaluri (8u, 1 purity)) from the libital patch (brute) to Plusk/(Christoph Railde) (NEWHP: 65.5)  (Central Primary Hallway (100,114,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:11.184] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "A FUCKING" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:11.279] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has transferred reagents (/datum/reagent/medicine/epinephrine (5u, 1 purity)) from the cyborg hypospray to Hoolny/(Seth Deces) (NEWHP: 68)  (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:11.280] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has injected Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with the cyborg hypospray (CHEMICALS: Epinephrine) (NEWHP: 68)  (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:11.923] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "BITFCH" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:13.507] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) points at Seth Deces (Medbay Lobby (98,109,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:13.667] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) claps. (Medbay Lobby (98,109,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:13.669] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) laughs. (Medbay Lobby (98,109,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:14.111] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "HE UIS THGE ONE" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:15.594] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "PUTTIGN WATER" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:16.614] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "rolled" (Medbay Lobby (98,109,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:17.619] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "its" (Medbay Lobby (98,109,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:17.980] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "ALL OVER THE FUYCKING" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:18.444] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has bolted [Medbay Maintenance] (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:18.451] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "water" (Medbay Lobby (98,109,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:19.260] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has bolted [Medbay] (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:19.426] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "you slut" (Medbay Lobby (98,109,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:19.471] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has bolted [Medbay] (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:19.764] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "CORRIDOR" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:21.751] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "theres a dying man" (Medbay Lobby (98,109,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:22.287] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "ADN YOU DO THIS SHIT" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:23.762] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "in the body bag" (Medbay Lobby (98,109,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:23.905] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "FUCK YOU BORGH" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:24.979] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "FUCK YOU" (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:25.032] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) points at the body bag (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:25.274] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) points at the body bag (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:25.337] EMOTE: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) screams! (Medbay Central (97,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:25.433] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) points at the body bag (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:25.647] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) points at the body bag (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:25.830] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) points at the body bag (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:26.829] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "borg" (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:28.851] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 85)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:29.013] SAY: Scriptis/(Evergreen) "sorry ma'am" (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:29.487] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "in the body bag" (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:30.885] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "dying man" (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:30.983] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 70)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:31.958] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 55)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:32.185] SAY: Scriptis/(Evergreen) "I am obligated to follow my laws" (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:32.208] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) points at the body bag (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:32.430] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) points at the body bag (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:32.868] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 40)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:33.673] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 25)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:34.548] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 10)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:35.427] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -5)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:36.238] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -20)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:36.296] EMOTE: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) screams! (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:36.966] SAY: Scriptis/(Evergreen) "please stop" (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:37.172] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -35)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:37.757] ATTACK: Scriptis/(Evergreen) has attacked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with cautery (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 57.4)  (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:38.038] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -50)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:38.967] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -65)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:39.865] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -80)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:40.679] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -95)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:40.810] EMOTE: Scriptis/(Evergreen) frowns. (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:41.399] EMOTE: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) blinks. (Medbay Lobby (98,108,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:41.557] EMOTE: Scriptis/(Evergreen) shudders violently for a moment before falling still, its eyes slowly darkening. (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:41.561] ATTACK: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has attacked Scriptis/(Evergreen) with emergency crowbar (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -100)  (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:42.239] ACCESS: Mob Login: Scriptis/(Evergreen) was assigned to a /mob/dead/observer
[2022-06-08 02:31:42.251] GAME: Scriptis/(Evergreen) Client Scriptis/(Evergreen) has taken ownership of mob Evergreen(/mob/dead/observer) (Medbay Central (97,105,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:46.786] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "fuck you borg" (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:48.718] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "you compromised" (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:49.021] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "seth just killed a borg" (Medbay Lobby (101,110,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:50.829] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "my entire" (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:51.510] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "shit" (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:53.380] SAY: Plusk/(Christoph Railde) "for bolting him in" (Medbay Lobby (101,110,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:53.646] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "I ahte you" (Medbay Central (98,106,2))
[2022-06-08 02:31:54.732] SAY: Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "so mcuh" (Medbay Central (98,106,2))

https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/sybil/ ... attack.log
https://tgstation13.org/raw-logs/sybil/ ... 1/game.log

[Hoolny]

You started the conflict with the Asimov Borg when you started smashing in a human's skull with a crowbar in their presence. They are required not only by their laws ICly, but OOCly by Server Policy to intervene. They do not get a choice in whether they decide to involve themselves like non-Silicons. More players like you need to recognize that when Silicons are present or observing, you need to change how you act lest you provoke conflict with them by committing actions they are required to intervene with where their laws compel them to.

Yes they are required to intervene with their laws this doesn't make them any less guilty for their crimes lets say a borg is not Asimov and it has being suberted its killing a human for no reason it isn't automatically IC innocent because its following its laws.

Also is not fair that a borg can lock you in a room with no clear way to escape if a human did it they would be killed by escalation and it would be fine

Asimov Silicons do not recognize criminality or Space Law. Their laws define their behavior and how they should be interacting with defined entities. More relevant to the events that transpired, protected entities under their laws. The Borg, under Asimov, is not allowed to make an exemption for a human because they committed a crime, even if they are a murderer or a human assaulting people harmfully. They are still entitled to protections under Asimov, but certain options like Law 2 commands become unavailable to them as they posit a risk of Law 1 infractions. More importantly, this Borg spent all of their time in Research trying to help people with ExperiSci and in Medbay fixing the person that you critically, and falsely, assaulted earlier in the shift. They had no frame of reference for what was going on aside from "human harming human".

An Asimov Borg attempting to separate two people from harming each other and then tending to the bleeding wounds of one of them (you) is not at all behaving like an Antag.

My point isn't that they were behaving like an antag is that they helped an antag in their crime and let them escape by so IC they are as guilty for whatever the criminal was being attacked for.

I'm not saying whats right or what isn't that isn't relevant here I'm saying what happened and why it happened I do feel I was entitled to damage the borg for letting an enemy of the corporation escape same thing would have happened if this was a human bolting me in and letting them escape Yes the borg was following its laws but I do not see how this matters they are as punishable for what they did as a human is

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Borgs and Humans are not the same, literally speaking. If we're talking about treating things according to their actions, it is wholly unnecessary to kill a Borg that was trying to protect you and treat your injuries when it offered no resistance. They sat there and died because they know deep down they are obligated by server policy and their laws to protect you and the only thing you had to say was "FUCK YOU BORG" and kill it. Whether they like it or not, they must do these things lest they get ahelped for ignoring human harm, which so frequently happens in even the most inane of circumstances. The Borg did not even have a choice of leaving you because you were still bleeding. It stood there and died because the player behind the Borg had to sit there and watch as the moron it was trying to protect bitched, moaned, and killed it for daring to get between them and a valid.


While I do not believe you maliciously attempted to entrap the Borg in a situation so you could kill it, you did very short sightedly decide to kill it because it denied you a kill against someone you thought was valid. How can you so obviously not see that the Borg was trying to help you, and how can you hold that against it to the degree to kill it while it didn't resist or even move?

First of the bleeding I was going through could not have being categorized as human damage even if the borg didn't do anything I would have being fine

It dosen't matter the borgs intentions were to be helping me it dosen't matter the borg didn't do anything wrong yes it sucks but the borg committed a crime and he was killed for the consequence of that crime even so killing the borg should not be treated as harshly as killing a human since the borg was easily put back into operation without an issue in a small amount of time.

My main point is this borgs are as punishable by the law as humans it's laws don't matter as they can be either good or bad and one cannot know if their good or bad and even if you know their good it doesn't erase the crime Security literary arrests people who technically committed a crime and wastes 1-20 minutes of their round and its fine why is me simply putting a borg out of commission for at max it was 2 minutes such a big deal it doesn't warrant a 3 day ban.

[AwkwardStereo]

If you want to request Headmin review feel free.

[Hoolny]

Sure I would like to see what the general consensus is in borgs being under or above the law

[AwkwardStereo]

I've let Headmins know. Its on their radar.

[Pandarsenic]

I encourage all of the people unrelated to this ban who have posted in it, to do some combination of:

- Edit your post to be strictly related to this ban, and the rules broken with it
- Copy your post and find or produce a peanut thread to paste it in

Before the forum janneifolk sweep through to clean this appeal up for practical readability.

Addendum by Domitius to not make any more peanut posts: Please read what Pandarsenic has said and read the forum rules thoroughly before making any posts on a ban appeal. Preferably please don't post at all unless you are related to the ban appeal or have an explicit reference or a specific log, with a source, that you believe would be enlightening. Leave out any opinions or takes you have or the entire post will be treated as a peanut.

[Mothblocks]

I do belief that borgs and humans are different when it comes to escalation, you kill a human you need to patch them up defibrillate them deal with blood loss, toxin damage and husking and missing organs just to name a few. You kill a human with no trace there is no coming back.

Your belief is wrong. Cyborgs are still played by players, and escalation exists just the same.

In fact, silicons are protected from basically this exact thing.

As a nonantagonist, killing or detonating silicons in the presence of a reasonable alternative and without cause to be concerned of potential subversion [is a violation of Rule 1].

As a nonantagonist (human or otherwise), instigating conflict with silicons so you can kill them [is a violation of Rule 1].

This appeal will not be upheld.