Ban Details BYOND account: Livrah Character name: Yebok Ban type: Note Ban length: Permanent Ban reason: Banned from the server for 1440 minutes - In a situation where they (a mime) had their equipment inappropriately taken from them by the warden for a misunderstanding in the brig and subsequent stripping of a toolbelt, ended up using lethal force against the warden in a later altercation. Was told by Iratosh to try and communicate for it back. Did so in a way that the warden did not understand them. Chose to take matters into their own hands by using lethal force against the warden after breaking into the armory. This is poor escalation and poor roleplay. Please read our Roleplay rules in the future. Emoting with more than just pointing is highly recommended if you want to be able to communicate as a mime. Time ban was placed: 2023-10-23 01:36:44 Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel Round ID in which ban was placed: 217317 (ban was placed from other server's round) Reasons for Appealing - Сhange where the ban was placed from Sybil to Manuel. Admins on LRP server can interpret red note with "lethal force against the warden" as cutting off his limbs, killing his dog and throwing security into SM after. It was 2 laser shots (no crit) just to make space to teleport out of armory. No intentions to change anything else in the note, nor to start an ahelp on Manuel ever again.
The reason the ban was placed on Sybil, rather than on Manuel, is fairly straightforward. As I was placing the ban on Manuel, where the incident took place, the server crashed. So I had to go over to Sybil to complete the process. I hadn't thought to clarify where the incident took place, and that was my bad, as I was just copy-pasting the information from the dead server panels.
I can clarify the location this ban was placed, certainly, that isn't a problem. But since we're in an appeal situation, I want to take this chance to actually extend the ticket a little more, since we did not have that opportunity the first time due to you wanting to rush me towards banning you for reasons I don't fully understand and would like your perspective on before I move to change the note.
What took place was poor escalation, and it was poor escalation regardless of which server you would be on. I think you have a misconception about how we consider notes. They're not divided by server, much like how a ban is not divided by server. And the severity of notes is not necessarily indicative of anything, we have no formal or informal system. It is up to admin preference how they utilize it to communicate to one another. I personally just make all bans that severe.
For the incident itself, where you chose to escalate into lethal force, the armory, is a very well precedented area where escalating with lethal force to defend yourself due to being in there against security will get you into severe trouble. Any warden or security member can kill you for even entering. To turn and use lethal force (and yes, laser fire is lethal force even if you only got two shots off before Maia managed to subdue you) is not proper escalation given the circumstances, and wouldn't be on Sybil or Manuel. It will not matter, escalation is a server agnostic rule, and this situation is applicable on those servers as well. They suggest a misunderstanding of our core rules.
I very much understand that this followed a rather unpleasant and long situation with the warden, and the admin handling that situation, Isratosh, had to leave and did so probably assuming that the situation was largely resolved. It wasn't. But when I evaluated the situation that followed with the armory fight, I didn't think it was following proper escalation even given the previously addressed administrative action. At which point, you seemed to just anticipate a ban and wanted me to move it along. Let me post some logs to highlight my meaning.
Spoiler:
[2023-10-23 01:08:23.241] NecromancerAnne/(Jodie Jensen)->Livrah/(Yebok): I can't call it an ic issue anymore because the other half of this discussions is you breaking into the armory, shooting the warden with a laser and then ghosting when captured.
-
- Do you think lethal force and an armory raid was appropriate given the situation?
[2023-10-23 01:12:06.674] Ticket #9: Livrah/(Yebok)->NecromancerAnne/(Jodie Jensen): Yea because admin told me he would give my stuff back. He didn't. You can do whatever punishment for me you find suitable. It's way to high ping for me to move any bait into IC situation.
[2023-10-23 01:23:38.771] NecromancerAnne/(Jodie Jensen)->Livrah/(Yebok): The exact phrasing for that was 'may return it if you asked them', it wasn't a guarantee. It seems there was still some communication problems, and that's partly the issue with mimes.
-
- That said, they said the majority of your methods of communication seemed to be pointing, which they didn't really get the meaning across. You can try and communicate with a custom emote of some kind, like say 'Mime draws an invisible circle around their waist and pulls out an unseen object from the circle' or something to that effect.
-
- I suppose the issue with the situation in the armory is that it's A) Bad escalation to go to lethal force like that, especially after breaking into the armory, B) Breaks our roleplay rule 2 as a result, C) and it breaks our rule 1 because of the poor escalation.
-
- Your only escalation point at this stage was with the toolbelt. I don't think that justifies you using lethal force first.
-
- If you say just to apply any punishment, then unfortunately that is actually a day ban. I will highly recommend you read our roleplay rules thoroughly before coming back. One of the most important ones, RR1, says there is a higher expectation of roleplay. We do expect a degree of communication to take place, and I do not think pointing is sufficient.
[2023-10-23 01:25:26.793] Ticket #9: Livrah/(Yebok)->NecromancerAnne/(Jodie Jensen): syndie bundles is the worst addition to the game this year. worst server, too bad bad it's the only playable server at this time.
[2023-10-23 01:26:05.928] NecromancerAnne/(Jodie Jensen)->Livrah/(Yebok): Okay, thank you for your time.
[2023-10-23 01:26:14.974] Ticket #9: Livrah/(Yebok)->NecromancerAnne/(Jodie Jensen): You too.
I want to very much stress that you're entitled to arguing your reasoning for why things happened, and that not offering any kind of explanation for your actions is not in your best interests whatsoever. It isn't then helped by making what seems like a somewhat childish jab at me personally, irrelevant to the situation. I only had your extremely limited logs and one side of the story to go off from, and the previous ahelps to get a full story. I came in late to the scenario, and what I had was not a good look on you.
But I'm convinced that if you had stuck around even just a little longer to explain what happened, and actually chose to explain your reasoning further, we wouldn't have even ended up in a ban situation. I had no preconceptions about what to do in the situation, I really just wanted you to explain what happened and I would have taken anything more than nothing. I have absolutely nothing personally against you, and if I did, that'd be grounds for an admin complaint if you felt like I was trying to abuse my authority in any fashion to ban you due to some personal grievance I have with you (which, again, I don't and we don't really interact at all so why would I).
Please consider at least this, given that maybe your reasoning for being on Manuel was due to a population density at the time of playing, if what you said is to be believed. This situation would have surely been inappropriate regardless of what server you were on. And by being on the server, you are potentially going to be addressed by an admin from time to time. Just talk, even a little bit. You're welcome to both a second opinion if you had appealed the ban, and you're welcome to defend yourself and be considered in a ticket scenario.
If you do not wish to be subjected to this process, your first mistake was ever choosing to play on /tg/station, but there isn't a server out there that doesn't at least share our method of administration. If you do not want to deal with specifically administrators on Manuel, your second mistake was being on Manuel in the first place. But it may not have necessarily changed anything given the incident in question is relevant on all servers. If this never comes up again, then that is very much a good thing, and I would hope that is the end result of this note.
Edit: So you don't have to deal with my evil essay posting
TL;DR I need some more clarifying information before I move to change the note, even just a sentence will do.
I want to know why you felt there was no point in defending yourself that you wanted me to move straight to a punishment. Was it because you were just tired of the process, or did you believe it was useless even trying?
Why do you believe this note being marked as being on Manuel would matter for a rule that is shared between servers?
How well do you understand the rules of the server, and whether there is still anything I can do to explain how this may have had a similar outcome on our other servers?
Do you believe I did this due to personal misgivings? And do you think I abused my authority in some way? The tone of the ticket seems to suggest this, so I wouldn't mind at least putting to rest any concerns about this.
Very well. I'll clarify the round this took place on and that it took place on Manuel. However, I think it is also important to highlight that this is poor behavior on all our servers.
I think the expectation of emote is very unreasonable to ask of you, so I'll remove that in place of the clarifying information and a warning that this is relevant on our other servers as well.
The note would be as follows
During round 217317, Manuel - In a situation where they (a mime) had their equipment inappropriately taken from them by the warden for a misunderstanding in the brig and subsequent stripping of a toolbelt, ended up using lethal force against the warden in a later altercation. Was told by Iratosh to try and communicate for it back. When the warden didn't give back the belt, chose to take matters into their own hands by using lethal force against the warden after breaking into the armory. This is poor escalation, regardless of the server this would have taken place. Especially on Manuel with higher expectations, and after asking for admin help.
Hey I was the warden in this situation. I don't remember why I didn't return the toolbelt because it was like a week ago. Livrah tried to convey to me that they needed it back but I didn't understand. Livrah didn't open fire in the library until I did I don't think. I don't think this is too worthy as a note as there isn't much a mime can do to tell a warden that they need a specific item back (personally I think mimes and sec should just stay away at all times because mimes can't communicate)
EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:25 pm
Hey I was the warden in this situation. I don't remember why I didn't return the toolbelt because it was like a week ago. Livrah tried to convey to me that they needed it back but I didn't understand. Livrah didn't open fire in the library until I did I don't think. I don't think this is too worthy as a note as there isn't much a mime can do to tell a warden that they need a specific item back (personally I think mimes and sec should just stay away at all times because mimes can't communicate)
It's why I chose to remove that part in the amendment. It definitely wasn't particularly considerate of Livrah's circumstances, and the most relevant part was the bad escalation.
I do want to say that I feel as though I've made a very classic Anne blunder in this thread and wasn't very consider towards Livrah. I want to apologize for bludgeoning you with the essaypost, and I hope you can forgive my poor handling of trying to talk with you. I've certainly had a lot of folk express to me that this is most definitely not an okay thing for me to have done, and I want to admit this was a significant mistake on my part and that I'm sorry.
If we ever interact again, I'll try harder to be more considerate. I'll update the note for you.
