[Ian0] - Improvedname note appeal

[Ezel]

BYOND account:I Improvedname
Ban/note type (Check what applies):() - Note

note length:Permament
note reason:Exploiting - saved a photo between rounds that can access engineering wiring information by virtue of having a copy of the blueprints in the photo. Do not perform obvious exploits.
Time ban was placed:2024-05-07 21:31:03
Server you were playing on when noted:Terry
Round ID in which note was placed: Round 228505

Why are you making this appeal?(Check what applies):Because i have lost 2 years worth of photo memories because a admin thought blueprints photo is a big bad exploit (when i am also the one who reported it on github)
() - The note is factually incorrect
(x) - The note is not against the rules
() - The ban/note needs modification
() - The ban was unjustifiably harsh

Why should this appeal be accepted?:Because i think admins treat exploits with alot of bias, (and i didn't even had a previous warning for this or interaction for it) and they deleted my photobook with the blueprints photo in question.

Admins have been treating exploits(AKA unintended features) with alot of bias while allowing something like back when this was a thing https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/72397 people spammed buckshots etc exploiting this unintended behaviour. admins ruled it as fine because it was "funny" (while being blatant abuse)

And then you have a case like mine where i get the bullet trough the head because this will interaction will absolutely derail rounds.

While this is also a intentional behaviour codewise, i have checked the interaction reported it on github(a fix got out the same day)

Code: Select all

[2024-05-07 21:35:47.583] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Iain0/(Bob Stange)->-censored-: thats amazing, the serialisation for photos is a list of attributes to preserve.  and thats one of them.

But what really rubs me the wrong way is that you deleted my photo album and put a photo in it with spraypaint painted over the floor saying bad instead of just pming me you deleted 2 years of my memories in ss13

[Vekter]

We have historically been very serious about handling exploits and Iain's response here is in line with previous instances of exploit abuse. Abuse almost always comes with a note and, in cases of repeated instances of abuse, a ban. Players have historically been noted for any form of exploit abuse or use of 'unintended features' even when they have not previously been warned for doing so, as the notes are used for tracking in cases where the player in question may abuse further bugs in the future. I can provide examples of specific players we've banned for serial bug abuse if need be.

Any concern regarding their behavior during the ban itself (deleting the photo album in question) would have to be handled separately from this appeal as a complaint.

[Ezel]

i have only issues with the photo album

[iain0]

The lack of history is why its only a note. Please dont exploit exploits even if you reported them.

Just because code allows something to happen doesn't mean its allowed, see also the ling MMI test. This is even known by you since you filed it as a bug on github before I got to it.

To be clear about the album, I did not delete the content. I spent about 20-30 minutes trying to understand what I was being told about this exploit and reproduce it. I eventually nail some SDQL and confirm that other than my test your photo in your album is the only one on the station. At the time I teleport your album from your bag where it's abandoned inside the brig holding area it contains only one photo, which helped my testing, but ultimately I removed only the one photo and replaced it with the one above and left it alone, but your photos (other than the singular exploit photo) weren't present before I got there.

The metadata on that photo indicated it was taken 4 (i think) round numbers earlier and thus had likely been made in the previous or previous but one terry round (thus after the bug report)

Ultimately this is only a cautionary note for you ; if you find an exploit, do not continue to use it. Exploits are usually met with pretty harsh pushback and often fast track bans, so I dont think a warning note saying "Don't use exploits again or you might get banned for it" is that problematic?

(Edit: Will also add for the record you were disconnected by the time I understood the issue and decided to take action; this is in part my fault, my attention was drawn to the issue with no understanding of how it worked at my end and my debugging side kicked in hard and I spent a while educating myself on the issue and how it worked ; I was not really happy acting on a mention of an exploit without being able to reproduce, understand its use/source, or even really have evidence that implicated anything, and by the time I knew what I was bwoinking you over you'd left)

[Ezel]

The lack of history is why its only a note. Please dont exploit exploits even if you reported them.

Just because code allows something to happen doesn't mean its allowed, see also the ling MMI test. This is even known by you since you filed it as a bug on github before I got to it.

To be clear about the album, I did not delete the content. I spent about 20-30 minutes trying to understand what I was being told about this exploit and reproduce it. I eventually nail some SDQL and confirm that other than my test your photo in your album is the only one on the station. At the time I teleport your album from your bag where it's abandoned inside the brig holding area it contains only one photo, which helped my testing, but ultimately I removed only the one photo and replaced it with the one above and left it alone, but your photos (other than the singular exploit photo) weren't present before I got there.

The metadata on that photo indicated it was taken 4 (i think) round numbers earlier and thus had likely been made in the previous or previous but one terry round (thus after the bug report)

Ultimately this is only a cautionary note for you ; if you find an exploit, do not continue to use it. Exploits are usually met with pretty harsh pushback and often fast track bans, so I dont think a warning note saying "Don't use exploits again or you might get banned for it" is that problematic?

(Edit: Will also add for the record you were disconnected by the time I understood the issue and decided to take action; this is in part my fault, my attention was drawn to the issue with no understanding of how it worked at my end and my debugging side kicked in hard and I spent a while educating myself on the issue and how it worked ; I was not really happy acting on a mention of an exploit without being able to reproduce, understand its use/source, or even really have evidence that implicated anything, and by the time I knew what I was bwoinking you over you'd left)

If you didn't delete my photo album i have no further issues with this just close it

Thank you for the information

[iain0]

Thanks, closing as requested.