[ikarrus] Marcos Kirk Sec/Captain Job ban

[Tornadium]

Byond account and character name: Tornadium/Marcos Kirk
Banning admin: Ikarrus
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Job Ban Sec/Captain
Ban reason and length: Permabrigged someone for seemingly inconveniencing him, threw a tanrum and suicided.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): GMT 7:30 PM
Your side of the story:

So long story short, HoS during a Gang Round that I didn't particularly look forward to dealing with because they're so damn chaotic. Geneticist starts turning gang members into copies of himself, he's arrested as a suspect, tells me what he did so I perma-brig him because he's shouting about race wars, turning people into copies of himself and just generally trying to make my life and securitys job a bigger nightmare than it currently is.

Ikarrus immediately jumps asking me why I did that, I tell him I can't be bothered arguing with him so I go release the dude and suicide because I don't want to play out the rest of the round with Ikarrus constantly jumping at everything I do. It's not fun and I really really can't be bothered dealing with someone I don't respect as a person or as an admin.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I didn't want to play the round with him jumping on the first thing I did. Simple. I could have lied and said I needed to go afk for real life reasons and I wouldn't have been job banned. Instead I just said what I thought and suicided.

Yeah I probably shouldn't have been pissy about it but as I said, Ikarrus is the least enjoyable admin to interact with in the history of TG for me. I didn't want to do it.

No real other defense or reason to be unbanned, I just intensely dislike the admin I was dealing with.


Edit: I think by tantrum he means me saying "Gods are being fags, so I'm out". before suiciding.

[hanshansenhansson]

I was Detective that round. The geneticist was set to arrest by me for having his prints on thousands of graffiti-wall. While I agree that perma might be too much, he was quite high on the list of suspected gang members.

[Ikarrus]

I just asked you a simple question but you were responded with extreme hostility and didn't answer any of my questions. You had the opportunity to defend your actions but you instead decided to be extremely difficult instead. So I made a judgement given the two sides' stories (Only thing you told me was that you perma'd him for "making your job hard") and instead suicided after complaining about admins IC.

You've always been this way and I am absolutely in no way obligated to bend over for caustic individuals such as yourself. I will not be lifting this jobban.

[Tornadium]

I just asked you a simple question but you were responded with hostility and didn't answer any of my questions. You had the opportunity to defend your actions but you instead decided to be extremely difficult instead. So I made a judgement given the two sides' stories (Only thing you told me was because you brigged him for "making your job hard") and instead suicided after complaining about admins IC.

I am absolutely in no way obligated to bend over for caustic individuals such as yourself. I will not be lifting this ban.

Caustic?

I asked you, Do you want me to go release him because I can't be bothered arguing with you. "I've always been this way", I'm polite to pretty much everyone except you because you've always acted cunty towards me since day 1.

I didn't say anything else to you before I suicided. I released him and suicided.

I said nothing else to you until the bans were applied either so I have no idea where you're getting this "extremely difficult" thing from. Please post the full chat log because I don't recall being difficult. I did exactly what you wanted.

I didn't say anything about admins, I said gods were being fags because I'm sick of you getting involved in every single round you admin in where it is not necessary. Let me be clear, I'm not being caustic to anyone. I expressed my distaste at having to play a head role with you in charge of the round and decided I didn't want to play it.

I honestly don't see why that equates to a job ban, considering I did nothing in my role as Head of Security which broke the rules or went overboard. Dude got released then I quit. That's it. I simply did not want to play a head role where I would have to answer to you for every single decision I make because my past experience of you doing that is quite honestly frustrating enough to just immediately stop playing when you're around. I would have immediately quit that round had I noticed you were admin before you messaged me.

Also for further clarification : I had one round where you messaged me upwards of 20 times to ask me what I was doing.

Edit: Can I have a headmin take over this ban please? Thank you.

[onleavedontatme]

I'll lift the ban in a week (you did suicide after all) on the following conditions

1) You dont do this shit again. Everyone has to deal with people they dont like every day. If he's actually harassing you make a complaint.

2) If you cant keep some basic level of politeness in the future I'm not helping you out. It's fine to dislike Ikarrus or criticize him as an admin but I dont want to deal with your personal grudges.

If you dislike my terms you're free to ask Sticky or HG for a second opinion

[Tornadium]

I'll lift the ban in a week (you did suicide after all) on the following conditions

1) You dont do this shit again. Everyone has to deal with people they dont like every day. If he's actually harassing you make a complaint.

2) If you cant keep some basic level of politeness in the future I'm not helping you out. It's fine to dislike Ikarrus or criticize him as an admin but I dont want to deal with your personal grudges.

If you dislike my terms you're free to ask Sticky or HG for a second opinion

I'll contact Sticky and HG but thank you for your reply.

I feel a job ban is extremely harsh even for a week considering what I did (by your own admission) was perfectly ok up to the point of suicide because I didn't want to deal with Ikarrus.

[Tornadium]

Sent PMs to the appropriate people,

Should I also contact MSO?

Thanks

I'd also like to make references to the following threads

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&start=50
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3555
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3514

There are more but I think this gets my point across. Not trying to be rude or be "Look at this I told you so", but seems I'm not the only one sick of being bwoinked for every single thing they do as security.

[Malkevin]

You've always been this way and I am absolutely in no way obligated to bend over for caustic individuals such as yourself. I will not be lifting this jobban.

So... you're keeping him banned for admin disrespect?
Come on Ikarrus, you're better than this - lift the ban.

2) If you cant keep some basic level of politeness in the future I'm not helping you out. It's fine to dislike Ikarrus or criticize him as an admin but I dont want to deal with your personal grudges.

As per the old google doc:
Player Invoked Frustration:
If there is something that highly offends you, or a player is getting under your skin; leave. Get another admin to take care of the issue. Failure to do this can lead to headmin action.

[Tornadium]

I wouldn't view it as admin disrespect as me just coming out plain and voicing my issues with policy and the admin in question.

If I had lied I wouldn't be getting a job ban and you wouldn't know a player is disgruntled with a certain set of policies or administrators. I don't understand why that is being viewed as caustic or toxic.

I understand that it can come across as being somewhat rude or like I'm being an asshole but i'd prefer to give context to a situation to give you as much information as possible with which to make an informed decision.

[Ikarrus]

I'm not going to do people any favors if they act like a donk to me in game, refuse to even defend his actions, and think they can appeal it later to someone else.

There's no way anyone can administrate the game if anyone can just refuse to answer your questions because they can always play nice in public later and get off free.

I'm not even mad at him, I just know this is the kind of shit he's been pulling since around the time I started playing.

[Tornadium]

I'm not going to do people any favors if they act like a donk to me in game, refuse to even defend his actions, and think they can appeal it later to someone else.

I'm not even mad at him, I'm just tired of the shit he's been pulling since around the time I started playing.

Defend my actions?

What actions are you referring to? I made the appeal, I was unhappy with your decision so I'm escalating it until there is no one else to speak to about the matter. Is that not allowed?

Also is this really the bar for how you deal with players now when they're being polite and respectful to you?

[15:31] <&Stickymayhem> You could have lied Tornadium sure
[15:32] <&Stickymayhem> But the fact you didn't meant you were making a statement in as childish a way as possible really.
[15:32] <&Stickymayhem> You chose to throw that in Ikarrus' facee
[15:46] <Tornadium> Why is it childish?
[15:46] <Tornadium> Just out of curiosity
[15:47] <Tornadium> I didn't want to play, I wanted to be honest about why I did not want to play.
[15:47] <Tornadium> Do you value player feedback or would you prefer to not know about what makes players not want to play on /tg/
[15:47] <Tornadium> I'm not trying to be rude or snide when I say that
[15:47] <Tornadium> If it comes across that way I apologise
[15:49] <%Saegrimr> Because you're throwing a huge temper tantrum because someone you didn't like answered an ahelp against you.
[15:49] <%Saegrimr> tl;dr grow the fuck up and deal with it
[15:50] <Tornadium> I don't believe I threw a "huge temper tanttrum".
[15:50] <Tornadium> Can you please elaborate as to where this occured?
[15:50] <Tornadium> I released the prisoner, and suicided because I didn't want to play anymore.
[15:51] <Tornadium> I didn't start screaming in adminhelp.
[15:51] <Tornadium> I didn't raise a complaint.
[15:51] <%Saegrimr> You've requested TWO different headmins to come and tell you the exact same thing because you werent happy with Ikkarus, and then weren't happy with Kor telling you basically what Ikkarus said, and STILL not happy with what Sticky has said which is basically what everybody else is telling you.
[15:51] <Tornadium> I literally just wanted to stop playing, I made a comment explaining why I was suiciding in an IC manner to let security know what I was doing.
[15:51] <Tornadium> Well, Am I not allowed to raise my concerns with other members of the admin team if I feel that a decision is poorly formed or in other ways flawed?
[15:52] <Tornadium> Especially given the context of previous bans of the same nature?
[15:52] <%Saegrimr> When all of us are telling you to stop being such a huge baby, maybe you should stop being such a huge baby.
[15:52] <Tornadium> Like people are given 3 day job bans for example for beating people to death as security, where I get a week ban for not wanting to play.
[15:52] <Tornadium> It doesn't exactly seem consistent.
[15:52] <Tornadium> Well friend, I'm speaking to you as respectfully as possible.
[15:52] <Tornadium> You've just insulted me three times
[15:52] <Tornadium> In our first exchange.
[15:52] <%Saegrimr> And i'm being a turbo asshole because that's sort of my thing. Welcome.
[15:53] <Tornadium> That is not a great attitude for player- staff relations friend.
[15:53] <%Saegrimr> I got tired of seeing you try to dance around the forums and here for the last day or so
[15:53] <Tornadium> Dance around the forums and here?
[15:53] <Tornadium> How so?
[15:53] <%Saegrimr> Yes hello please play the level headed player only here for the wrong doings so you may look better in the eyes of the other admins.
[15:53] <%Saegrimr> Because mean old Saegrimr is putting you down.
[15:53] <Tornadium> I'm trying to get my issue resolved in a manner that communicates clearly why I am unhappy.
[15:54] <%Saegrimr> You've been told by two headmins now to ~deal with it~ so you should probably just give up at this point.
[15:54] <%Saegrimr> Good luck getting the third headmin to chime in as he's permanently afk
[15:54] <Tornadium> I'm pretty sure I've been nothing but respectful to every admin that i've dealt with thus far
[15:55] <%Saegrimr> And you still haven't gotten it through your thick skull so i'm trying a different approach to see if you're more receptive towards being told off instead of calmly explained why you're acting like a child.
[15:55] <%Saegrimr> Seems that isn't working either so i'm gonna go get a shower.
[15:55] <%Saegrimr> Have fun.
[15:55] <Tornadium> That's hardly appropriate.
[15:56] <Tornadium> So basically if I'm unhappy with a decision you want me to basically accept being told to fuck off instead of question it?

[Ikarrus]

Defend my actions?

What actions are you referring to?

Your refusal to answer my question when I asked you why you put someone in perma.

[Tornadium]

Defend my actions?

What actions are you referring to?

Your refusal to answer my question when I asked you why you put someone in perma after saying something to the effect of "You're going in here for making my job harder"

And I gave you an honest answer, he was making my job that was already going to be a clusterfuck harder to deal with. I was going to give you a detailed explanation about why I perma'd him but I decided that I didn't want to deal with you bwoinking for everything I did all round so I suicided and went to play SWTOR because it's NOT FUN.

I spoke to you in IRC and explained very clearly and I believe without any hostility in a plain manner of fact way why I did what I did.

A weeks job ban for doing my job as HoS correctly then deciding that I didn't want to play anymore is a bit much don't you think? Especially considering had I just lied I wouldn't be in the situation, instead I gave you a clear indication of why I was doing it so you were aware of it.

I'm sorry if that makes it look like a "temper tantrum" or something but surely you WANT to know if a player has a problem.

[Ikarrus]

Your "honest answer" didn't answer my question.

[Tornadium]

Your "honest answer" didn't answer my question.

I know, See my post above.

I decided just to stop playing because I knew I wasn't going to have any fun at all that round.

[Tornadium]

[15:56] <%Saegrimr> If the president of the united states told you to fuck off when the rest of the supreme court has also told you so, who else do you complain to?
[16:07] <%leibniz> Tornadium: did you include the part with the warden in your appeal
[16:09] <Tornadium> I haven't spoken to MSO yet
[16:09] <Tornadium> I haven't no
[16:09] <Tornadium> Detective chimed in, I can't remember the wardens name
[16:09] <Tornadium> MSO is basically the president right?
[16:12] <%Saegrimr> You did actually.
[16:12] <%Saegrimr> <MrStonedOne> you suicided as a head role, that generally alone nets you a perma head ban until appeal, doing it because you didn't like an admin is even worst. a shit reason is worst then no reason.
[16:13] <%Saegrimr> And then he delegated off the responsibility to the headmins, which is you know... what they do
[16:13] <Tornadium> Yes I know, And after that I had the decision from the headmins.
[16:13] <Tornadium> I want to speak to him about the decision
[16:13] <Tornadium> Am I not allowed to ask for his opinion?
[16:13] <%Saegrimr> You're still mad, and will continue to poke and prod everybody until we're too tired of dealing with you and just unban you?
[16:14] <Tornadium> I don't think I'm being mad, Have I once insulted you or made an outburst?
[16:14] <Tornadium> I'm trying to get my issue solved
[16:14] <Tornadium> That's all
[16:14] <Tornadium> If anything you seem mad
[16:14] <@Ikarrus> Kor gave you some options.
[16:16] <Tornadium> He gave me an option
[16:16] <Tornadium> One I disagree with and hence why I am speaking to other headmins and trying to speak to MSO
[16:17] <Tornadium> Am I allowed to appeal or raise my issue if I'm not happy with the handling of it thus far?
[16:17] <%Saegrimr> You have already appealed
[16:17] <%Saegrimr> And it was handled, your ban was reduced to one week was it not?
[16:17] <Tornadium> It was
[16:17] <Tornadium> I disagree that I should be given a week job ban
[16:18] <Tornadium> Hence why I am speaking to other headmins and if possible MSO
[16:18] <%Saegrimr> So we should have just left you on permanent then?
[16:18] <Tornadium> So you say I deserve a perma because I disagree with what a headmin has resolved to do?
[16:18] <Tornadium> What the fuck

Really? This is how staff handle rational conversations?

Oh cool
[16:22] <%Saegrimr> Right, then with the power vested in me by the one who is afraid of shadows, and maintained by those currently in power too lazy to remove mine. I deem your case solved. CLASS DISMISSED.

[16:22] == Tornadium was kicked from #supportbus by Saegrimr [Tornadium]

[Saegrimr]

Ayyyy at least post the full conversation.

Code: Select all

<Tornadium> Can someone ask Kor to come in here please
<KorPhaeron> moshi moshi
<Tornadium> Kor who handles admin oversight these days
<Tornadium> I remember we used to have one
<Ikarrus> all head admins
<KorPhaeron> uhm
<KorPhaeron> thats a blatant lie
<KorPhaeron> we never had any oversight
<Tornadium> We had that one person
<Tornadium> I forget her name
<KorPhaeron> Creed?
<Tornadium> Had a specific title to overlook admin decisions and stuff
<KorPhaeron> Yina?
<Ikarrus> Deuryn?
<Tornadium> Before that massive split happened way back when
<KorPhaeron> I mean whoever it was didn't do their job
<KorPhaeron> so
<MrStonedOne> he might mean the host, xsi, tle, crossbowman, sos, an0n3, and now me.
<Tornadium> I think it was Yina
<Tornadium> name rings a bell
<Tornadium> It was around the time we had that peanut gallery forum
<Tornadium> So people didn't post in ban appeals or whatever, they would discuss it in a seperate forum
<Ikarrus> admin observers?
<Ikarrus> yeah those were phased out
<Ikarrus> ah yeah advocates
<MrStonedOne> man, a lot has changed.
<Ikarrus> they're all gone now
<MrStonedOne> .help access
<MrStonedOne> .access clear
<MrStonedOne> .sync
<Tornadium_> Sorry firefox decided it didn't enjoy living
<Tornadium_> Need anything else kor?
<KorPhaeron> nah I'm writing a forum post
<KorPhaeron> its slow on a phone
<KorPhaeron> still deciding on how to word it
<leibniz> Tornadium_: it was soldierkraso, miggles, paprika and some others
<Ikarrus> was pap really one of them
<Tornadium_> Yep
<leibniz> they were picked during the roundtable by sos
<Ikarrus> jesus
<leibniz> i think the whole advocate thing was judged unfairly because some of the biggest retards were selected for it, but such is life on the station
<Ikarrus> the loudest peopel were selected
<leibniz> there is a big overlap
<Tornadium_> So how do I get in contact with HG or Sticky
<oranges> Pm them on the forum would be your best bet
<MrStonedOne> ^
<oranges> or wait until one of them shows up in here 
<MrStonedOne> not ^
<oranges> you're not likely to see hg though
<MrStonedOne> ^
<Tornadium_> Any method of contact like steam or anything?
<Tornadium_> I'd rather have a conversation than PM over a few days
<MrStonedOne> byond pager maybe.... 
<leibniz> there is a third headmin too
<MrStonedOne> weekly reminder that byond has built in messaging/im system
<Tornadium_> Oh I wasn't aware
<Tornadium_> Who is the other headmin
<MrStonedOne> kor
<Tornadium_> ah
<Tornadium_> Already dealt with
<leibniz> kor is the acting headmin
<Tornadium_> Need to speak to HG/Sticky instead
<oranges> they don't have any listed steam accounts that I can see on their forum profiles
<MrStonedOne> normally STP, but stp is away for a month, and kor is headmin in his place
<Tornadium_> Bugger
<oranges> you're still entitled to have the other headmins review a ban if you wish
<oranges> just don't expect great speed
<Tornadium_> Well yeah that's what im trying to do
<Tornadium_> A week job ban seems a bit insane, considering the headmin in question said what I did was perfectly deserved prior to me suiciding.
<MrStonedOne> you suicided as a head role, that generally alone nets you a perma head ban until appeal, doing it because you didn't like an admin is even worst. a shit reason is worst then no reason.
<Tornadium_> Well
<Tornadium_> Let me put it to you this way
<Tornadium_> I either could have lied and made up some story about my dog dying in real life and I wouldn't have recieved a job ban.
<oranges> why didn't you elect a successor, ensure he was competent and then leave?
<Tornadium_> I'm pretty sure I told the warden he was in charge before I suicided
<Tornadium_> I suicided right next to him
<Tornadium_> As I was saying, I was honest.
<Tornadium_> Playing as security when ikarrus is admining is the worst experience I've ever had.
<Tornadium_> I'm not trying to be rude when I say that, just being honest that it completely ruins any kind of fun you can have playing. At least for me personally.
<Tornadium_> I don't feel it's a shit decision because it is my leisure time that is in short supply, I don't want to play something if it's a struggle to get through it.
<Tornadium_> er shit reason sorry
<Tornadium_> I will admit the suicide was shitty, I could have just disconnected.
<KorPhaeron> Which is completely fair and I log off when certain admins are online but I do it without ignoring PMs/suiciding/telling them about my personal dislike fo them
<Tornadium_> I know Kor
<Tornadium_> It was shitty
<Tornadium_> I'm just trying to explain he does this
<Tornadium_> EVERY
<Tornadium_> FUCKING
<Tornadium_> TIME
<Tornadium_> And yes it made me angry so I reacted in a shitty way
<leibniz> does what
<Ikarrus> I just asked one question
<Tornadium_> Messages heads of security or anyone in security about any little thing they do
<Ikarrus> I have to investigate when someone complains
<Tornadium_> From arresting someone for breaking shit to permaing a dude who just murdered 5 people.
<Tornadium_> Yes but you don't even bother to find out what the hell the person did from the person complaining before you message the person.
<oranges> if you don't like responding to adminhelps I'd honestly suggest not playing HoS
<Tornadium_> I've never had this issue with other admins before
<Tornadium_> Not even that one dude
<Tornadium_> Whats his face
<Ikarrus> He denied doing anything wrong
<Ikarrus> which is why I asked you what he did wrong
<Tornadium_> The one that used to play with burer etc
<KorPhaeron> Who was the genetcist
<KorPhaeron> I'd have banned them for banbaiting
<Ikarrus> I probably would have to
<Ikarrus> if I actually got the other side of the story
<oranges> cdb
<oranges> he never pm's sec because he assumed they were always right
<KorPhaeron> they always are
<Ikarrus> and were deadminned for handling sec related issues
<KorPhaeron> criminal scum
<Tornadium_> And I would have given it to you, but the last interaction I had with you I spent 30 minutes with you arguing over perma brigging a dude who released brainrot and murdered like 5 people
<Ikarrus> I havent seen you in years
<Ikarrus> I dont even know what youre talking about
<Tornadium_> I last played like 5 months ago
<Tornadium_> And that incident made me stop playing all together
<Tornadium_> And before you say, raise a complaint.
<Tornadium_> I've very rarely if ever seen them accomplish anything
<Tornadium_> Most people know they're pointless
<Ikarrus> I'm sorry i guess? Its hard to defend something that happened so long ago
<Tornadium_> Again not trying to be rude
<Ikarrus> I dont remmeber any of it
<Tornadium_> To be fair that's not surprising with the amount of shit that you guys do deal with
<KorPhaeron> Alright uh
<KorPhaeron> in the future can someone other than Ikarrus take PMs about Tornadium
<KorPhaeron> if at all possible
<KorPhaeron> we usually have like 4 admins on
<KorPhaeron> and that seems like the least drama for everyone
<Ikarrus> not on weekends
<Ikarrus> its deserted usually
<Ikarrus> its the worst on the weekends I guess most people have better things to do
<KorPhaeron> we gotta get rid of our normie admins with social lives then
<Ikarrus> more people but from what I've seen less admins
<oranges> thats how you get fat
<oranges> you'll live
<oranges> hello friend player
<oranges> NikNak we're looking for adult opinions only sadly

Day 2:
<Tornadium> Afternoon
<Tornadium> Any headmins around
<oranges> one day
<leibniz> Stickymayhem
<Tornadium> Just need to find out who else I need to PM about my appeal thing
<Tornadium> Cause kor stopped replying last night
<Tornadium> What's this byond account linking requirement shit.
<Stickymayhem> You have to link your account
<Stickymayhem> It's really easy
<Stickymayhem> I'm kinda busy but I can answer questions on and off here
<Tornadium> I sent you a PM regarding Kors decision on my appeal
<Tornadium> If you could take a look at it when you get a moment please
<Tornadium> https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3922
<Tornadium> Need a second opinion and what not
<Stickymayhem> Why do you think kor wrong Tornadium
<Stickymayhem> There's a basic reasonable discourse needed for being able to discuss shit like this
<Stickymayhem> If you dislike Ikarrus personally you should be man enough to still be able to deal with them.
<Stickymayhem> If you can't keep your cool in a situation with several minutes to think about the situation and write answers only for your own benefit
<Stickymayhem> How are you going to act in other more demanding areas of the game
<Tornadium> I don't think he's wrong in what he's saying
<Tornadium> I think he's wrong that I deserve a week job ban for not wanting to deal with ikarrus when I was already having a bad day and I didn't want to deal with his shit
<Tornadium> I ruined no ones round
<Tornadium> I personally did not want to play security anymore
<Tornadium> The only thing I technically did wrong was be honest about what I was doing
<Tornadium> I could have lied to you and said my dog died
<Tornadium> and I wouldn't have a job ban right now
<Tornadium> Hell Kor even said what I was doing at the time was perfectly valid and he had it coming
<Tornadium> At the time I was going to just let the dude go because I found nothing illegal on him and the evidence we did have was pretty weak
<Tornadium> Then he by his own admission said he was turning gang members into copies of himself so we couldn't track down who was doing what
<Tornadium> Gang rounds are incredibly not fun as security specifically because on average you get bwoinked 10+ times 
<Tornadium> With Ikarrus around I just decided "nope, i'm not wasting my valuable leisure time on this shit"
<Tornadium> Hell I'd take a 2-3 day ban over a week job ban 
<Tornadium> I'm one of the few people who actually WANTS to play security on the server at the moment
<Tornadium> I mean yeah, I did suicide and yes it was kind of shitty.
<Tornadium> In context though I was doing my job as the HoS correctly, I did nothing to break the rules or power trip in the role. A week job ban for doing my job correctly and not wanting to deal with CONSTANT admin intervention seems harsh if I'm honest about it. That tied with the fact that if I had just lied and said I needed to go I wouldn't be in this situation.
<Tornadium> At work still so I'll check chat for your reply sticky when I can
<Stickymayhem> You could have lied Tornadium sure
<Stickymayhem> But the fact you didn't meant you were making a statement in as childish a way as possible really.
<Stickymayhem> You chose to throw that in Ikarrus' facee
<Tornadium> Why is it childish?
<Tornadium> Just out of curiosity
<Tornadium> I didn't want to play, I wanted to be honest about why I did not want to play.
<Tornadium> Do you value player feedback or would you prefer to not know about what makes players not want to play on /tg/
<Tornadium> I'm not trying to be rude or snide when I say that
<Tornadium> If it comes across that way I apologise
<Saegrimr> Because you're throwing a huge temper tantrum because someone you didn't like answered an ahelp against you.
<Saegrimr> tl;dr grow the fuck up and deal with it
<Tornadium> I don't believe I threw a "huge temper tanttrum".
<Tornadium> Can you please elaborate as to where this occured?
<Tornadium> I released the prisoner, and suicided because I didn't want to play anymore.
<Tornadium> I didn't start screaming in adminhelp.
<Tornadium> I didn't raise a complaint.
<Saegrimr> You've requested TWO different headmins to come and tell you the exact same thing because you werent happy with Ikkarus, and then weren't happy with Kor telling you basically what Ikkarus said, and STILL not happy with what Sticky has said which is basically what everybody else is telling you.
<Tornadium> I literally just wanted to stop playing, I made a comment explaining why I was suiciding in an IC manner to let security know what I was doing.
<Tornadium> Well, Am I not allowed to raise my concerns with other members of the admin team if I feel that a decision is poorly formed or in other ways flawed?
<Tornadium> Especially given the context of previous bans of the same nature?
<Saegrimr> When all of us are telling you to stop being such a huge baby, maybe you should stop being such a huge baby.
<Tornadium> Like people are given 3 day job bans for example for beating people to death as security, where I get a week ban for not wanting to play.
<Tornadium> It doesn't exactly seem consistent.
<Tornadium> Well friend, I'm speaking to you as respectfully as possible.
<Tornadium> You've just insulted me three times
<Tornadium> In our first exchange.
<Saegrimr> And i'm being a turbo asshole because that's sort of my thing. Welcome.
<Tornadium> That is not a great attitude for player- staff relations friend.
<Saegrimr> I got tired of seeing you try to dance around the forums and here for the last day or so
<Tornadium> Dance around the forums and here?
<Tornadium> How so?
<Saegrimr> Yes hello please play the level headed player only here for the wrong doings so you may look better in the eyes of the other admins.
<Saegrimr> Because mean old Saegrimr is putting you down.
<Tornadium> I'm trying to get my issue resolved in a manner that communicates clearly why I am unhappy.
<Saegrimr> You've been told by two headmins now to ~deal with it~ so you should probably just give up at this point.
<Saegrimr> Good luck getting the third headmin to chime in as he's permanently afk
<Tornadium> I'm pretty sure I've been nothing but respectful to every admin that i've dealt with thus far
<Saegrimr> And you still haven't gotten it through your thick skull so i'm trying a different approach to see if you're more receptive towards being told off instead of calmly explained why you're acting like a child.
<Saegrimr> Seems that isn't working either so i'm gonna go get a shower.
<Saegrimr> Have fun.
<Tornadium> That's hardly appropriate.
<Tornadium> So basically if I'm unhappy with a decision you want me to basically accept being told to fuck off instead of question it?
<Saegrimr> If the president of the united states told you to fuck off when the rest of the supreme court has also told you so, who else do you complain to?
<leibniz> Tornadium: did you include the part with the warden in your appeal
<Tornadium> I haven't spoken to MSO yet
<Tornadium> I haven't no
<Tornadium> Detective chimed in, I can't remember the wardens name
<Tornadium> MSO is basically the president right?
<Saegrimr> You did actually.
<Saegrimr> <MrStonedOne> you suicided as a head role, that generally alone nets you a perma head ban until appeal, doing it because you didn't like an admin is even worst. a shit reason is worst then no reason.
<Saegrimr> And then he delegated off the responsibility to the headmins, which is you know... what they do
<Tornadium> Yes I know, And after that I had the decision from the headmins.
<Tornadium> I want to speak to him about the decision 
<Tornadium> Am I not allowed to ask for his opinion?
<Saegrimr> You're still mad, and will continue to poke and prod everybody until we're too tired of dealing with you and just unban you?
<Tornadium> I don't think I'm being mad, Have I once insulted you or made an outburst?
<Tornadium> I'm trying to get my issue solved
<Tornadium> That's all
<Tornadium> If anything you seem mad
<Ikarrus> Kor gave you some options.
<Tornadium> He gave me an option
<Tornadium> One I disagree with and hence why I am speaking to other headmins and trying to speak to MSO
<Tornadium> Am I allowed to appeal or raise my issue if I'm not happy with the handling of it thus far?
<Saegrimr> You  have already appealed
<Saegrimr> And it was handled, your ban was reduced to one week was it not?
<Tornadium> It was 
<Tornadium> I disagree that I should be given a week job ban
<Tornadium> Hence why I am speaking to other headmins and if possible MSO
<Saegrimr> So we should have just left you on permanent then?
<Tornadium> So you say I deserve a perma because I disagree with what a headmin has resolved to do?
<Tornadium> What the fuck
<Saegrimr> I never said that, you're the one that has a problem with your ban being reduced.
<Tornadium> You literally just said "So we should have left you on perma"
<Saegrimr> With a question mark, as in an inquisitive statement directed at you.
<Tornadium> Who are you again
<Tornadium> Just so I know who I'm speaking with
<Saegrimr> Your IRC client not have names displayed?
<Tornadium> I mean who are you in the context of /tg/ station
<Tornadium> Server admin? Forum?
<Saegrimr> I'm the disgruntled guy in the back room that watches the cameras.
<Tornadium> That doesn't answer my question I don't think
<Saegrimr> Right, then with the power vested in me by the one who is afraid of shadows, and maintained by those currently in power too lazy to remove mine. I deem your case solved. CLASS DISMISSED.
 Bad arguments for user command.
* Saegrimr sets ban on Tornadium!*@*
* Saegrimr removes ban on Tornadium!*@*
* Saegrimr sets ban on Tornadium!*@*
* Saegrimr has kicked Tornadium from #supportbus (Tornadium)
<Saegrimr> Huh my akick command broke
* Saegrimr removes ban on Tornadium!*@*
* Tornadium (~qwebirc@954010AC.CFC607.DDD05F8E.IP) has joined #supportbus
<Tornadium> Really
<Tornadium> Super mature
<Saegrimr> Ayyy the temp ban was to prevent your client from auto rejoining.
<Saegrimr> But if I have to keep it on then so be it
* Saegrimr sets ban on Tornadium!*@*
* Saegrimr has kicked Tornadium from #supportbus (Tornadium)
* Tornadari (~qwebirc@954010AC.CFC607.DDD05F8E.IP) has joined #supportbus
<Tornadari> Hi
* Saegrimr sets ban on *!*@954010AC.CFC607.DDD05F8E.IP
<Saegrimr> Hostmask then.
* Saegrimr has kicked Tornadari from #supportbus (Whoooooo are you, who who who who)

And yes I will be closing this thread too as it has been Dealt With by two headmins, your permaban reduced to a week despite you trying your hardest to get anybody to say otherwise. The conspiracy lives on.

[onleavedontatme]

Player Invoked Frustration:.

I told Ikarrus not to handle adminhelps about him anymore either