Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

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J_Madison
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Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby J_Madison » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:03 am #321639

Part of a group of 6 (Akesson, keekenox, Stealthkibbler, Hadrin Alucard, Wilchen, and Father_of_intervention) who met up using the unofficial /tg/station 13 discord. They metacommunicated on Sybil and also plan on raiding citadel. I was only going to give them a harsh warning for this and tell them not to raid citadel but they didn't seem to listen and instead are just going to make another discord. You are (I assume) /tg/station 13 players and met to create the group for this raid on an affiliated discord. Your actions do infact reflect on us especially when the administartion gets wind of this.
Banning admin: owegno
Ban type (What are you banned from?): perm
Ban reason and length: perm
Time ban was placed (including time zone): ???
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): all

Your side of the story:
some people here literally didn't take part.
some people here literally were in holodeck.
some people here were doing literally nothing.

we got banned for shitposting on a discord and going onto sybil as latejoin assistants and mucking around.

also we plan on getting drunk and going on citadel on saturday.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
above reasoning. nobody was harmed at all during this. nobody died. nobody dealt damage.



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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby J_Madison » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:06 am #321640

was oweg even on the server?

this was resolved, you came onto the discord to instigate people and the discord brushed it off and laughed about it.

you literally told us we can't use this discord, so we said we'll make our own. you worded that badly and we misunderstood

PostThis post was deleted by PKPenguin321 on Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:51 am.
Reason: Funny but irrelevant

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby kevinz000 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:09 am #321642

as someone who was spectating the thing i can say this is a joke gone horribly wrong, take it as such.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Keekenox » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:11 am #321643

I just want to say I wasn't involved in this, I simply ghosted to watch the chaos, but I still got banned. Ouch.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Darkgenerallord » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:12 am #321644

As somebody who was there for a fairly large portion of this, there was legitimate metacomms going on. Even if you're fucking around and joking, this isn't an excuse to share info that you should not know through a discord voice chat. I warned you, Owegno warned you, you kinda brought this on yourself. Similarly, Keekenox, I saw you mention the flashbangs, follow the HoS around, etc. You were definitely involved.
Last edited by Darkgenerallord on Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Owegno » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:12 am #321645

If some people didn't take part and got banned they can appeal themselves. Raiding another server with a group of /tg/ players and recruiting openly in an affiliated discord is very much against the rules as is any kind of metacommunication (which from what I was informed of while not too terrible but it was still metacommunication.). Also I was not in the round. I was playing another game when I noticed another admin talking about what was going on and clearing wanting help and not receiving any. I had planned on simply giving a warning but when I tried to your response was to create another discord (your still recruiting via an affiliated discord) and just laugh it off.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby captain sawrge » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:12 am #321646

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby J_Madison » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:14 am #321647

alright I took part but I didn't use meta information at all.

nobody said anything about griefing servers, the idea was to explore and laugh at the mechanics of citadel.

we were told to make another discord because we can't use one affiliated with tg.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Owegno » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:15 am #321648

I didn't tell you to make another one. I told you not to raid another server using people from an affiliated discord.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby kevinz000 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:16 am #321649

i'm going to be devil's advocate here and say that they should get a second chance after maybe a few days/weekban and if they fuck up again(whether on TG or cit) perma them.
no i'm not saying this is alright but holy shit this is the first time this shit got blown this high up.

edit: honestly I'm disappointed that Jmad started this little schtick when he investigates metagamers.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby J_Madison » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:17 am #321650

Owegno wrote:I didn't tell you to make another one. I told you not to raid another server using people from an affiliated discord.

that to us meant you wanted to cover your back and wanted to ensure it wasn't affiliated with tg, and thus someone suggested make a discord that isn't tg

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby captain sawrge » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:17 am #321651

kevinz000 wrote:i'm going to be devil's advocate here and say that they should get a second chance after maybe a few days/weekban and if they fuck up again(whether on TG or cit) perma them.
no i'm not saying this is alright but holy shit this is the first time this shit got blown this high up.

edit: honestly I'm disappointed that Jmad started this little schtick when he investigates metagamers.

The majority of these people should know better.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Keekenox » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:23 am #321652

I just want to openly apologize if I did mention the HOS's location, I was a bit drunk at the time and just kinda having a mad giggle about the entire situation, I apologize for any headaches I caused.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Stealthkibbler » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:26 am #321653

Tbh Owegno what were you expecting coming in and trying to act all big boy infront of 10 people with your 2D spessmens authority. Nobody took the entire thing seriously but you and the other admongs and even Kevins saw the humor of it all even though the entire point of it was to shit on cat people. The only person affected by the whole thing was the HoS who had never seen that much grey in his life and was probably mentally traumatized from being shadowed by over 5 greyshirts.

PostThis post was deleted by NikNakFlak on Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:58 am.

PostThis post was deleted by lzimann on Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:00 am.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Owegno » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:30 am #321657

I expected you to listen and cut it out. I see humor in it which is why I had only wanted to warn the people involved and tell them not to raid citadel, but they couldn't take that seriously for 5 seconds so I decided to just go with my first instinct which was to slap a perma on everyone involved.

TBH I'm just disappointed in the people involved. A number of them should know better than this.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Stealthkibbler » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:34 am #321659

You reckon?

PostThis post was deleted by NikNakFlak on Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:59 am.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby J_Madison » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:58 am #321665

I've chatted to oweg about this with Joan and kevinz listening in as tg staff.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Cobby » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:06 am #321666

If you actually did any of this then you need to wait for a bit before appealing, like days if not weeks...
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby danno » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:16 am #321676

stupid games, stupid prizes

this is probably one of the most applicable situations for this classic phrase
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:01 am #321687


This. Rephrase it all you want:
J_Madison wrote:nobody said anything about griefing servers, the idea was to explore and laugh at the mechanics of citadel.

But note that the rule specifies raiding and griefing and two separate things. The fact that a place for metacomms was established (a private discord) essentially confirms that this was a raid in progress.

This ban was in the right IMO, and I'm going to say rejected, although I won't actually lock this appeal until another headmin agrees with me. I also expect future appeals to be made individually, but again, other headmins can override me on that.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby J_Madison » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:07 am #321689

If you were not involved in this incident, it requires heavy amounts of context and the perception of the events without knowing the context wouldn't be right.

There's clear mistakes and exaggeration, and to a degree we're banned for thought crime.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Owegno » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:08 am #321690

Feel I should just add I was planning on unbanning the group tomorrow after more admins weighed in but if you feel the ban should stick PKP it will stick. I mainly placed this ban since people didn't seem to be taking my message of "Don't raid another server" seriously.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:36 am #321692

Can't look into this any more today but I'm changing my opinion on it to undecided until I hear more, specifically from Jmad, I acted too quickly. Would like it if this wasn't closed until I can look into it more.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby danno » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:47 am #321696

regardless of how this turns out, I think the moral of the story is going to be "just don't even jokingly act like you're going to metacomm and grief a server, because you're going to get banned for it"
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby imblyings » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:37 am #321698

Jmad I've told you to fuck right off about discussing bans over mediums that aren't logged and you did it again. Thin fucking line you're on.

I am fine with Owegno's bans staying for now.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:38 pm #321850

I think for the sake of fairness we should look into Jmad's side further. I asked him to go in depth over IRC and here are the logs. I don't know if this will affect your view at all, Ausops, but it should probably be read at the very least.

Code: Select all
<J_Madis> But I can recall everything that happened.
<DGL> I mean he also literally told you yesterday, Jmad
<J_Madis> It began as just a group of us, about 12+ people on a friday night laughing and telling stories
<J_Madis> we talked about all going onto citadel to see their features and horrify ourselves with their features.
<J_Madis> when one of the group members said they were going to go on sybil. I think at this time, we said "yeah lets jump on sybil and have a laugh" right as the round ended.
<J_Madis> next round, we explicitely said to everyone to latejoin, and play as assistant to avoid impacting the round, and then go to the bar. I think it was about 6-7 of us doing this and 3 others chatting and talking about ERP logs or other things.
<J_Madis> almost everyone went to the bar, one ghosted and watched us, one was in holodeck. I was in the bar when people started disarming and toolboxing eachother, when one of the players said "this hos is acting weird" in discord voice chat.
<J_Madis> He posted on the thread, i think, mentioning he was sorry he did that, and he was drunk
<J_Madis> this was when someone said "hey lets chase the HOS with harm/disarm intent and just walk into him"
<DGL> it wasn't just 'this HoS is acting weird'
<DGL> he mentioned him going to grab the flashbangs etc
<J_Madis> Ah yes, this was when the flashbangs occured.
<DGL> for further reference, this was Keekenox
<J_Madis> because we were playing cats, he mentioned that this HOS was probably pannicking and how he was going to bring out flashbangs.
<DGL> this was before
<DGL> he then mentioned that he was in fact grabbing the flashbangs
<DGL> and this is where I acted to tell you to knock it off, because this was starting to cross a line
<J_Madis> That must be the player ghosting, or following the HOS.
<DGL> yes
<DGL> that was Keekenox
<J_Madis> I remembered this line occurred after the first flashbang was used, at the HOP's office corner.
<J_Madis> then he was chased into brig? and two people started attacking the window. I walked into the courtroom.
<J_Madis> and this was when kevinz set stunned everyone to something like... -1? or was it 3k?
<DGL> it was literally infinite
<J_Madis> alrighty. well we all logged off since the novelty ran off and we realised we were doing something bad
<Joan> here is my nonofficial hot take; if you're playing ss13 don't be in voice with other people playing ss13
<DGL> but the basic problems here were: you did in fact shove people in the mob, one of you attacked somebody and nearly critted somebody when they started shoving back for the disarm mob
<DGL> etc
<J_Madis> I understand. Sorry about this joan, there's no excuse, but from our side it was a group of guys some of them drunk on a friday night
<J_Madis> peer pressure, groupthink, and football hooligan psychology overtook us.
<J_Madis> I don't know who critted someone. that person should stay banned in that case.
<J_Madis> I only healed I think wilchen who was getting attacked by a clown with a toolbox
<DGL> IMHO my opinion is that this should be appealed separately
<J_Madis> and people were disarming eachother in the bar, non-lethally.
<DGL> since some people in this have prior notes for other behavior
<DGL> that would be relevant to this kind of appeal
<J_Madis> and, I think at this point, we laughed and said "same thing basil?"
<J_Madis> but we were given a very stern "Stop this now" and we all stopped.
<J_Madis> Kevinz mentioned we all got notes for it, and we fall back to relaxing, talking about vorestation/citadel tour that was meant to happen today
<J_Madis> owegno came in, and it was 1 admin trying to argue with 10 or so people, and he was rebuffed, insulted, berated, by a few of us
<J_Madis> by the way, this was all over at this point. we had acknowledged we fucked up, but a lot of the people involved aren't tg.
<J_Madis> but after owegno had been insulted, berated, and laughed at by some of us, we found out he applied a permaban
<J_Madis> The citadel raid, for reference, was a planned "somethingawful/goon safari".
<Joan> I'm pretty sure you're also banned on several other servers due to this
<Joan> as in, due to this specific incident
<J_Madis> Which servers joan? yog, vg haven't listed our bans.
<J_Madis> citadel has been under lockdown since 2 weeks ago, and I had to use a different account for joining.
* Joan is now known as Joan|Away
<J_Madis> I was very clear we were not going to grief citadel. We made this clear that we were going to follow rules, we were not going to metacom, but we were there for a safari essentially. to see how they play, their features, and get a laugh.
<J_Madis> I can't comment on how citadel does things, but I have chatted with their admins. I have had their places introduce and show me a tour of citadel on discord in front of admins.
<J_Madis> But that's my side of the incident and everything I can recall at this exact time.
<J_Madis> Timeline is: chat gathers people, one person in chat summons several other australians, brits, and users for more people to chat to.
<J_Madis> someone mentions "hey when are we raiding". we told him tomorrow. he wanted to raid now. someone said "hey lets go on sybil as cat assistants and chill at bar"
<J_Madis> and that incident started. I don't recall anyone getting hurt or killed, nor any windows broken on station. the whole thing lasted no longer than 4-5 minutes really.
<J_Madis> as for hippie and baystation Joan|Away , I haven't checked. I know the Host of hippie asked if I was interested in being an admin and to help out on the server for things like ban evasion.
<J_Madis> But that's my side of the story. Did you see anything different kevinz000-Cloud and DGL ?
<DGL> I mean, you did start a pretty large fight
<DGL> And at least one person got nearly critted due to it
<DGL> The real problem, here, IMHO
<DGL> Was the actual usage of voice chat and Keekenox being a ghost
<DGL> It probably wasn't anything intentional, but you did share info you shouldn't have reasonably known IC
<J_Madis> Who did get critted? I think I only disarmed the clown I think.
<DGL> It was some assistant in the bar, he got toolboxed
<J_Madis> I recall I did say "cats to the bar" since I didn't want to metacom.
<J_Madis> I don't know about that dgl. I know the clown was toolboxing I think wilchen and others.
<DGL> shrug
<DGL> I'd have to log dive to be certain, but I remember some fight starting and at least somebody nearly dying other than Wilchen
<J_Madis> I do not remember or was I involved in toolboxing them. I would like to get their ckey if it's possible.
<DGL> But uh, yeah
<J_Madis> wilchen didn't die. i bruisepacked them. I know the HOS started shooting lethal lasers.
<DGL> My actual problem with it was the whole probably accidental metacomms
<DGL> Which is what I warned you for
<PKPenguin321> Would either of you mind if I posted logs so far to the ban appeal thread
<DGL> I just forwarded it to a higher ranking admin because you seemed to brush it off, more or less
<DGL> go ahead
<DGL> Then Owegno went over, warned you again, reported that you brushed it off again
<DGL> And were reportedly making a discord to raid Citadel
<DGL> so I seconded a permaban, at least for the time being
<J_Madis> It was a misunderstanding there with Owegno that we cleared up. the raid was more of a safari and tour than a raid and pillage.
<PKPenguin321> a "safari" doesnt make it sound much better
<J_Madis> We had no intentions of griefing. Wilchen wanted to vape semen, one of us six wanted to jerk off into the cryo beaker
<PKPenguin321> wait what
<J_Madis> that's very common behaviour. And I apologise for saying that so bluntly
<PKPenguin321> are those things you can do on citadel
<PKPenguin321> like for real
<J_Madis> Yes.
<PKPenguin321> hahaha
<J_Madis> That's why I didn't want to say any of this.
<J_Madis> It's very common on citadel to do this. But I digress. Nobody eats from the kitchen in citadel because of these features.
<J_Madis> But that was our intentions. We wanted to tour citadel, vape semen, get covered in cum, put semen in cryo beakers, and generally have a good time.
<J_Madis> we were not going to attack people FNR, or greytide, or break rules.
<PKPenguin321> do you mind if i post this with the logs im posting to the ban appeal
<J_Madis> making our own discord. that was a misunderstanding we cleared up. we thought owegno meant "don't do it on a tg affiliated discord" was meaning
<J_Madis> Is it really that hilarious to you lol?
<J_Madis> sure.
<PKPenguin321> ok
<PKPenguin321> anything else big to say before i post these logs
<J_Madis> we thought owegno meant "don't do it here because it incriminates us"
<PKPenguin321> this is mainly to show to ausops
<J_Madis> so we took that as meaning "don't get tg involved on this. this is us doing this stupid raid, not tg"
* g_k____1_w_m____s_u (~teet@4F3E289A.D92B4C5D.CCE250DA.IP) has joined
<J_Madis> what we probably should have taken that as is "don't raid at all"
<J_Madis> Ah, there is something big to say
<J_Madis> we apologised and worked it out for blowing off owegno when he came in.
<J_Madis> it was 8+ of us loudmouthed, laughing people who were reading ERP logs and making jokes at the expense of Haevacht
<J_Madis> and owegno had came in and was very stern and serious, which resulted in some of us humiliating him and not taking him seriously
<J_Madis> because it was 6+ people throwing banter and jokes around with just one admin trying to settle us down.
<J_Madis> but they had apologised for doing this later. Oweg acknowledged that this whole ordeal had ended and was done by the time he came in.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby MrStonedOne » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:25 pm #321859

PKPenguin321 wrote:Can't look into this any more today but I'm changing my opinion on it to undecided until I hear more, specifically from Jmad, I acted too quickly. Would like it if this wasn't closed until I can look into it more.


I'm just going to re-open this appeal based entirely on this comment.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby onleavedontatme » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:52 pm #321867

It was stupid and deserved a ban but I don't think "social" crimes (stupid metacomming for the purposes of screwing around and having a laugh, not blatant cheating) should be a no tolerance permaban when we tolerate completely anti-social behavior that makes people miserable (the average security player, silent antagonists)

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby Owegno » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:57 pm #321869

Pretty much my opinion on it Kor. My big concern was the raid on citadel that I have been assured was not what I thought it was going to be. I'm perfectly fine with lifting the bans because of this.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby danno » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:51 am #321890

Kor is correct but people should still be very very clear that if you wave your dick around with this shit you're definitely going to get a ban
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby bandit » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:32 am #321903

I just have two things to add here:

1) "Other people get away with X and Y so Z is totally fine" is not a logical argument. It isn't valid in other ban appeals and it isn't valid here either. Neither is "I was drunk." If you can't control your griff while getting drunk then either A) don't get drunk or B) more likely, don't play spessmens when you are.

2) The moment at which the metacomms -- which IMO shouldn't even have happened in the first place but if we really want to concede this ground -- became more than "just screwing around" is this: "hey lets chase the HOS with harm/disarm intent and just walk into him" and also "he mentioned him going to grab the flashbangs etc." (The HoS seems to have agreed based on the descriptions of his actions.) Even without the metacommunication aspect this would be an arguably bannable episode of graytide. The metacomms pushes it over into "you have to go out of your way to break the rules this knowingly and flagrantly."
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby onleavedontatme » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:42 am #321909

bandit wrote:so Z is totally fine" is not a logical argument


Kor wrote:It was stupid and deserved a ban



What did she mean by this?

Also I think it is absolutely relevant discussing our priorities as an admin team that we don't foster an environment in which we're harsher on social people than we are on hostile loners.

bandit wrote:Even without the metacommunication aspect this would be an arguably bannable episode of graytide.


Walking into someone is not grey tide what the fuck

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby kevinz000 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:16 am #321935

the worst they managed to do was spook the shit out of the hos (no attacking happened ifaik) and run around central hall and then spin around the bar.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby imblyings » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:23 am #321937

Plenty of people are social and they are completely capable of not entering in a discord and talking about things ingame. Some people even have the capability to go ahead and tell admins not only are they playing with friends, they'd like admins to relax since they know about metacomms rules and definitely won't be metacomming. Plenty of people are social, Kor, but they also happen to be functional enough to discuss things about ss13 separately from the game.

<J_Madis>I understand. Sorry about this joan, there's no excuse, but from our side it was a group of guys some of them drunk on a friday night
<J_Madis> peer pressure, groupthink, and football hooligan psychology overtook us.

You're the most uptight person about metacomms and metafriends but the moment you collect some people in discord willing to metafriend you, it's 'peer pressure' and 'groupthink' and other trash excuses, and you're meant to be forgiven. Why is this so? Either way I made it clear in IRC, and perhaps not so clear in my first post, that this ban could be appealed after some time had passed. In sum it wasn't too serious a metacomms incident and I have seen or unbanned others in similar cases.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby J_Madison » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:38 am #321941

I'm especially uptight, that you are right.

But nearly two years of being that uptight doesnt account for just how hard I used to metafriend.

If the best greytiders and powergamers make the best admins, then the best metagamers make the most bitter antimetagaming people. But that sense of team and friend cooperation still sticks with you like how the best admins know how to greytide and powergame hard.


Most of the people involved in this ban aren't tg players. In fact very little ingame was spoken on disocrd. This was a 4 minute incident backed with Kevinz and DGL's testimony on what was said. It wasn't a whole round fiasco or session.


The difference being in my excuse was it was spontaneous event that happened in spur of the moment.

Compared to the other than more experienced groups who're not affected by groupthink or group mentality because they've been metacomming/metafriending for weeks and months at a time and had gotten used to their own behaviour. And managed to get admin or official tg affiliation with their behaviour to further normalise it.


And you made this mention on IRC that you had completely disregarded anything that was said to any of the admins actually involved and you locked and immediately decided a ban that another headmin was handling.


Time stamp is GMT. If anyone was logged on then, I would greatly appreciate the full logs.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby imblyings » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:07 am #321946

<ausops> then making an appeal thread for talking about raiding other servers and metacomming
<ausops> after a decent period of time has passed

You are impatient, you cannot handle simple instructions, you cannot post complete IRC logs. You think double standards apply to you in metacomms when a ban to be appealed later is very much on par for the course. This can stop now.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby bandit » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:18 am #321951

bandit wrote:Even without the metacommunication aspect this would be an arguably bannable episode of graytide.


Walking into someone is not grey tide what the fuck[/quote]

It is when there are 9 people rushing you in a deliberate attempt to fuck up your movement (the dude jmad quoted specifically made the point that everyone should be on non-help intent) and apparently grabbing flashbangs and smashing windows (it's really hard to tell who did what from the secondhand telephone whispers from jmad, which I suspect is the point, I'd really like to see logs of this). A bunch of assistants coordinating themselves to start shit with the HoS is already shitty line-toeing behavior even without the metacoms aspect.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby J_Madison » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:19 am #321952

That's a phone client. That's why I don't have complete logs. Because it's on a phone client.

When I wake up, I'll reference some standards.

The raiding servers has been cleared up.

Most (4-5 of the 6) persons were not metacomming, and that was the ghost and the person calling out the HOS.

bandit wrote:It is when there are 9 people rushing you in a deliberate attempt to fuck up your movement (the dude jmad quoted specifically made the point that everyone should be on non-help intent) and apparently grabbing flashbangs and smashing windows (it's really hard to tell who did what from the secondhand telephone whispers from jmad, which I suspect is the point, I'd really like to see logs of this). A bunch of assistants coordinating themselves to start shit with the HoS is already shitty line-toeing behavior even without the metacoms aspect.

No windows were smashed.
The HOS was not harmed.
From my POV, I don't think the HOS actually was pushed more than 5 squares in total.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby NikNakFlak » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:00 am #321957

J_Madison wrote:If the best greytiders and powergamers make the best admins

Since when? Who the fuck decided this standard, you? Who the fuck are you even talking about? Tsaricide? Nah. Kevinz? ..what?

Compared to the other than more experienced groups who're not affected by groupthink or group mentality because they've been metacomming/metafriending for weeks and months at a time and had gotten used to their own behaviour. And managed to get admin or official tg affiliation with their behaviour to further normalise it.


What the fuck is this gibberish? Are you seriously talking about kevinz here again with his cat girlfriends? This is literally information that is not backed up, confirmed, or in anyway should be used to justify your own shittyness for those reasons. Its literally a garbage statement.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby calzilla1 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:04 am #321959

NikNakFlak wrote:
J_Madison wrote:If the best greytiders and powergamers make the best admins

Since when? Who the fuck decided this standard, you? Who the fuck are you even talking about? Tsaricide? Nah. Kevinz? ..what?

I think he's taking about ice packs

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby onleavedontatme » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:14 am #321961

bandit wrote:
It is when there are 9 people rushing you in a deliberate attempt to fuck up your movement (the dude jmad quoted specifically made the point that everyone should be on non-help intent) and apparently grabbing flashbangs and smashing windows (it's really hard to tell who did what from the secondhand telephone whispers from jmad, which I suspect is the point, I'd really like to see logs of this). A bunch of assistants coordinating themselves to start shit with the HoS is already shitty line-toeing behavior even without the metacoms aspect.


You are using a term that was coined to refer to mass murder and the destruction of entire departments by non antags to describe "fucking with movement" (and maybe breaking a window?) the slippery slope is real.

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby NikNakFlak » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:16 am #321962

Kor, the word greytide was never that specific, please
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby onleavedontatme » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:16 am #321963

imblyings wrote:Plenty of people are social and they are completely capable of not entering in a discord and talking about things ingame. Some people even have the capability to go ahead and tell admins not only are they playing with friends, they'd like admins to relax since they know about metacomms rules and definitely won't be metacomming. Plenty of people are social, Kor, but they also happen to be functional enough to discuss things about ss13 separately from the game.

<J_Madis>I understand. Sorry about this joan, there's no excuse, but from our side it was a group of guys some of them drunk on a friday night
<J_Madis> peer pressure, groupthink, and football hooligan psychology overtook us.

You're the most uptight person about metacomms and metafriends but the moment you collect some people in discord willing to metafriend you, it's 'peer pressure' and 'groupthink' and other trash excuses, and you're meant to be forgiven. Why is this so? Either way I made it clear in IRC, and perhaps not so clear in my first post, that this ban could be appealed after some time had passed. In sum it wasn't too serious a metacomms incident and I have seen or unbanned others in similar cases.


Fair enough

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby onleavedontatme » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:18 am #321964

NikNakFlak wrote:Kor, the word greytide was never that specific, please


The original use was in reference to a bug that caused 40+ assistants to spawn followed by them killing everyone

It has become less and less specific to the point of being meaningless though that is true

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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby ChangelingRain » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:23 am #321965

Let me make this visibly official; I agree with ausops on this.
If jmad wants mercy he'll have to pester mso.

The rest of the people involved should make their own appeal threads since this one is basically all madison now.
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Re: Group Class action ban appeal - Owegno

Postby oranges » Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:48 am #321974

Believe it or not, even the mildest of metagamers build up to catastrophically screw up rounds. This isn't just tgstation. This is the case with three different servers with three different player bases.


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