[Rustledjimm] Overescalation

[Calibraptor]

Byond account and character name: Calibraptor/Jude Junebug
Banning admin: Rustledjimm
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Jobban from Headroles
Ban reason and length: Banned from Captain, Head of Personnel, Head of Security, Chief Engineer, Research Director, Chief Medical Officer - As the Head of Personell beat the clown to death for being slipped. Had the chance to descalate either by communicating or by non-lethally subduing the clown. You've garnered a few notes already regarding you conduct as a head these past few weeks so please take a break from Command positions for a while.
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2017-11-15 12:50:33
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil
Your side of the story: I was the HoP and had previously been injured to near critical condition by kudzu. I was limping around looking for a medkit and crowbar so I could get into the captain's office and call the shuttle. The round had been going for more than two hours at this point and several areas were taken over by harmful vines or depressurized. The clown began to follow me and attempt to slip me using his PDA in a hallway that was airless and depressurized, and followed me into cargo continuing to try and slip me as I was trying to use a first aid kit.

Fed up with this clown and panicking because I'm near death, I baton the clown down and beat him around 7 to 8 times to send the message that I'm not in the mood for his bullshit. After which the clown gets back up, brandishes a pickaxe, and manages to hit me once in the head with it before I baton him down again and brain him with said pickaxe.


Why you think you should be unbanned: I feel like a whopping three weeks is a bit harsh for dunking a clown that was being a shitter. Especially since my last instance of misbehavior as a head role was almost a month prior, and I've played quite a few rounds without incident.

A reduction to a weekban and the note edited to state that the clown wasn't exactly being a saint would be satisfactory.

[Gouty]

Clown here

I had just spent 20+ minutes clearing kudzu from arrivals to escape, I had radio'd multiple times to ask for the shuttle to be called, told people that escape was fucked because the kudzu had just mutated into a form that was destroying the windows and was fireproof.

I saw you coming out of the bridge, repeatedly asked you to call the shuttle, I didn't realise you were deaf I thought you were ignoring me, so I followed you and tried to slip you. I didn't slip you, (I wasn't trying particularly hard) but you beat me within one hit of crit (I had a look afterwards it was 90hp).

I don't remember the area we were in being depressurised, I also only hit you in the leg, once.

I agree that 3 weeks off heads would be a bit harsh for just this case, but I believe previous incidents where you were let off lightly were also taken into account

[Cobby]

If what he's said is true then he really shouldn't be banned for that. It's not over escalating to beat someone to near crit when they keep interfering with you while you're dying and trying to heal.

[D&B]

Why didn't you just PDA message him?

[Rustledjimm]

My reasoning regarding the job ban is that you had many options to try and peacefully de-escalate the situation but you did not even attempt a 'Clown stop' or using your baton non-lethally and leaving it at that. I can understand being in a bit of a panic perhaps due to low health but the area where you beat him to near death was not depressurised so you were not in any immediate danger. The clown was doing what the clown does, though slipping you in a depressurised area is potentially harmful the clown did not physically attack you once.

Also your other recent incidents were indeed in the past month, that is still 3 incidents in the past month specifically regarding Command positions and to be honest one in particular I was surprised you received just a warning for. I think you've realised though what you've done wrong. I can lower this to a week but I don't think the note requires changing. Unless a headmin wants to step in and say otherwise.

[Cobby]

The clown was doing what the clown does, though slipping you in a depressurised area is potentially harmful the clown did not physically attack you once.

So he WAS trying to slip him in a hazardous area?

[onleavedontatme]

[12:32:21] Calibraptor/(Jude Junebug): has been attacked by Baron Von Honks(gouty) with pickaxe(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 1.84) (167,152,2)

He was not kidding about near crit

[NikNakFlak]

Now that's cutting is close

[Rustledjimm]

[12:32:21] Calibraptor/(Jude Junebug): has been attacked by Baron Von Honks(gouty) with pickaxe(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 1.84) (167,152,2)

I knew the state he was in, I still don't think that's an excuse to near crit someone back. He hit him once with the baton why couldn't he just keep doing that or try talking to the clown? I cannot fully remember if the hallway was depressurised but the cargo area where the beating actually happened was not. The clown in question had no idea about his state at his time and I did tell him in chat later he should be more careful about where he slips people.

This along with the history I believe warranted a job ban from Command roles, I'm more than willing to drop it to a week as I believe he understands what he did wrong.

And yes, that pickaxe attack was certainly cutting it close, which is really why it would've been better if you'd descalated rather than escalated the situation for yourself too.

[Cobby]

Getting banned for critting after they almost put you into softcrit is very very odd. Players do not know intents of other players.

[Gouty]

Except they killed me, not crit, I hit them once with a pickaxe after they attacked me a whole bunch, tbh i don't think I am so bothered by the killing me part it, I came at them with a pickaxe, it was more the whole beating me within a inch of crit for just trying slip them.

And the area wasn't hazardous, I had cleared the kudzu from there earlier.

I just wanted the shuttle called and thought the HoP was deliberately not calling it.

[Rustledjimm]

Getting banned for critting after they almost put you into softcrit is very very odd. Players do not know intents of other players.

I decided to go through the logs again to show exactly what happened.

78804

Clown starts following the HoP asking him to call the shuttle

[12:31:29]SAY: Jude Junebug/Calibraptor : Deaf (169,140,2)
[12:31:51]ATTACK: Baron Von Honks(gouty) grabbed Jude Junebug(calibraptor) with passive grab (NEWHP: 16.84) (167,154,2)

HoP responds they are death and the clown then attempts to slip them

[12:32:00]ATTACK: Jude Junebug(calibraptor) stunned Baron Von Honks(gouty) with The telescopic baton (NEWHP: 97) (168,155,2)

The HoP then stuns them. Situation should be resolved now.

[12:32:02]ATTACK: Jude Junebug(calibraptor) attacked Baron Von Honks(gouty) with telescopic baton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 87) (168,155,2)
.....
[12:32:10]ATTACK: Jude Junebug(calibraptor) attacked Baron Von Honks(gouty) with telescopic baton(INTENT: HARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 13) (168,155,2)

But the HoP continues to beat the crap out of the clown.

[12:32:21]ATTACK: Baron Von Honks(gouty) attacked Jude Junebug(calibraptor) with pickaxe(INTENT: HELP) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 1.84) (167,152,2)

The clown almost beat to soft crit himself decides to take a swing at the HoP and does 15 damage, the HoP has not taken any other damage in this time and has not moved since the attempt to slip.

[12:32:21]ATTACK: Jude Junebug(calibraptor) stunned Baron Von Honks(gouty) with The telescopic baton (NEWHP: 25) (168,153,2)
[12:32:23]ATTACK: Jude Junebug(calibraptor) attacked Baron Von Honks(gouty) with pickaxe(INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 12) (168,153,2)
....
[12:32:31]ATTACK: Jude Junebug(calibraptor) attacked Baron Von Honks(gouty) with pickaxe(INTENT: DISARM) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -117) (168,153,2)

Clown is beaten to death.

[12:32:47]SAY: Jude Junebug/Calibraptor : Fucking trying to attack me whilst I'm near death (167,153,2)

This is a good example of something you could have said before you beat them to death, just replacing attack with slip/bother of course. Members of the crew who have non-lethal options for resolving a situation such as Command Roles and Security are expected to use those non-lethal options. You did use this and then you turned it into a lethal option.


I personally am happy to lower the jobban to a week and think that is appropriate, though it has been around 3 weeks since the last incident and you do seem to be learning more of what's expected of Command positions, if a headmin wants to overrule this entirely and remove the ban I'm not going to push it.

[onleavedontatme]

Think this ban is a little off because

-It had nothing to do with abusing a head of staff position other than that he had a telebaton

-He was reasonably stressed (deaf, in a crisis, almost dead) when he was attacked by someone who had followed him for two screens

-Admins shouldn't be acting as a safety net for people who get themselves into completely avoidable trouble (chasing a head of staff to fuck with them because you feel slighted)

-If you did feel the need to act as a safety net, given you acknowledged yourself in asay that the player had justifiable reason to "panic" and wasn't acting out of malice you coulda just right click revived the clown since his body was already taken to genetics. It's pretty easy to reset small situations like this without any OOC punishment.

[Rustledjimm]

I understand. I'll log in and remove the ban and the note. Thanks for explaining your reasoning so clearly Kor, I'll make sure to take this feedback on and learn from this.

I apologise for this whole situation Calibraptor.

[Wyzack]

I'm just a humble forum lurker but isn't this like the third time in two weeks that a player has received a questionable ban after killing gouty in what seems to be reasonable escalation, only to have it lifted on closer examination?

[Gouty]

isn't this like the third time in two weeks that a player has received a questionable ban after killing gouty in what seems to be reasonable escalation, only to have it lifted on closer examination?

Uh, no. Are you referring to this note appeal from 2 months ago?

[Wyzack]

Almost entirely hyperbole tbh, but yeah that was one of the ones that comes to mind. In any case it is not really relevant and this is resolved so my posts should probably be deleted and the thread locked

[Cobby]

Almost entirely hyperbole tbh, but yeah that was one of the ones that comes to mind. In any case it is not really relevant and this is resolved so my posts should probably be deleted and the thread locked

All good beautiful.

This has been resolved