[Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
[Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
BYOND account: SinfulBliss
Character name: Axle Brady
Note Type: Triple Exlam (!!!)
Note reason/time:
Server you were playing on when noted: Sybil
Round ID: 169879
Your side of the story: The round was during lowpop Sybil (maybe 10-15 people). I set up some field wall generators and some emitters near the tram. I then announce on comms for people to vacate the tram area as it will be getting deconstructed. A couple people run over to board it intentionally, because they wanna die in a massive explosion since they were bored or something. Someone calls the tram and wham it's no longer functional.
I'm not sure what rule this breaks... Dankasaur said "grief," but who am I griefing? I cleaned up all the mess after, repaired the flooring so people could walk by it, and made sure any suicides that were still ensouled were brought to medbay. Honestly it was nothing more than redecorating the map to make it easier to traverse, along with the plus side of having a nice fireworks display.
If you delam the SM "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by messing up power. Breaking tram hurts no one, in fact it improved the round by creating a little drama for people to enjoy and also eliminating the greatest source of human harm on that map. No one was negatively impacted. I assume the admin will say I broke an "integral" part of the map and this is therefore griefing despite harming no one, but surely "grief" needs a victim to be grief right? The tram is not sentient...
Character name: Axle Brady
Note Type: Triple Exlam (!!!)
Note reason/time:
Server you were playing on when noted: Sybil
Round ID: 169879
Your side of the story: The round was during lowpop Sybil (maybe 10-15 people). I set up some field wall generators and some emitters near the tram. I then announce on comms for people to vacate the tram area as it will be getting deconstructed. A couple people run over to board it intentionally, because they wanna die in a massive explosion since they were bored or something. Someone calls the tram and wham it's no longer functional.
I'm not sure what rule this breaks... Dankasaur said "grief," but who am I griefing? I cleaned up all the mess after, repaired the flooring so people could walk by it, and made sure any suicides that were still ensouled were brought to medbay. Honestly it was nothing more than redecorating the map to make it easier to traverse, along with the plus side of having a nice fireworks display.
If you delam the SM "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by messing up power. Breaking tram hurts no one, in fact it improved the round by creating a little drama for people to enjoy and also eliminating the greatest source of human harm on that map. No one was negatively impacted. I assume the admin will say I broke an "integral" part of the map and this is therefore griefing despite harming no one, but surely "grief" needs a victim to be grief right? The tram is not sentient...
- Dankasaur
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:56 pm
- Byond Username: Dankasaur
Re: [Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
If you are intentionally breaking parts of the map for no reason that is griefing.
I've been reminded that you cannot appeal fact based notes. Since there isn't really a question of if you did it or not, this will be resolved in a few days.
I've been reminded that you cannot appeal fact based notes. Since there isn't really a question of if you did it or not, this will be resolved in a few days.
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: [Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
Note implies it wasn’t acceptable and was griefing - this is what I’m contesting.
(Also triple exclam? Implies heavy wrongdoing)
(Also triple exclam? Implies heavy wrongdoing)
- Dankasaur
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:56 pm
- Byond Username: Dankasaur
Re: [Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
This is really a simple matter of being asked not to blow up the tram FNR. I don't know any other way to word it for you. The note is factual, you did blow up the tram by your own admittance and the note is not overly harsh or portraying the events incorrectly.Dankasaur wrote:If you are intentionally breaking parts of the map for no reason that is griefing.
I'll lower the severity for you but that doesn't change the context of the situation at all.
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: [Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
I don't know how to explain to you that intentionally breaking an important part of the map for no good reason is the definition of griefing.sinfulbliss wrote:Note implies it wasn’t acceptable and was griefing - this is what I’m contesting.
(Also triple exclam? Implies heavy wrongdoing)
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: [Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
What definition are you using?Vekter wrote:I don't know how to explain to you that intentionally breaking an important part of the map for no good reason is the definition of griefing.sinfulbliss wrote:Note implies it wasn’t acceptable and was griefing - this is what I’m contesting.
(Also triple exclam? Implies heavy wrongdoing)
Griefing has to have a victim. I still don't see what rule disabling the tram violates.
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: [Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
You're arguing semantics. The map is explicitly designed around the tram--destroying the tram is griefing.
Just like in your example:
Just like in your example:
If you destroy the tram "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by destroying its main path of transportation. You can get around through the tunnels and the tracks just like how you could set up solars or temporary APCs when the power is out, but you are still griefing.If you delam the SM "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by messing up power
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
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- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: [Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
Destroying the tram's main path of transportation is not griefing the round because the only side effect is people walk to where they want to go now, and no one gets killed or maimed by the tram during its route on 10pop Sybil. It's simply restructuring the design of the map to be safer for the crew. On lowpop especially it is quite common for new players to just get mauled by the tram within 5 minutes of arriving, their bodies hidden somewhere on lower tram maints for 20 minutes before anyone even notices them, at which point they've already disconnected.Mothblocks wrote:You're arguing semantics. The map is explicitly designed around the tram--destroying the tram is griefing.
Just like in your example:
If you destroy the tram "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by destroying its main path of transportation. You can get around through the tunnels and the tracks just like how you could set up solars or temporary APCs when the power is out, but you are still griefing.If you delam the SM "for fun" that's griefing under Rule 1 because you're actually breaking the round by messing up power
Regarding your analogy: delamming the SM also has the side effect of destroying literally all of engineering. That is, an entire department. Backup power doesn't replace that. On the other hand, removing tram and creating catwalks causes no harm to any department or role. Again perhaps we have different definitions of grief but if it doesn't have any victims it's not griefing anyone. Someone has to be there to grieve for it to be grief.
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: [Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
The reason I am appealing this note is because its existence implies what I did was wrong. If I got noted for hacking an airlock, would I be unable to appeal that too because it's a factual account? The note is also not fact-based as it says I stopped the tram "FNR." I gave many reasons during the ahelp, and reiterated here, for stopping the tram.Dankasaur wrote:I've been reminded that you cannot appeal fact based notes. Since there isn't really a question of if you did it or not, this will be resolved in a few days.
I would appreciate a headmin opinion on whether my behavior here was improper or not. If it is not deemed improper it should not be a note.
- RaveRadbury
- In-Game Game Master
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Re: [Dankasaur] Note Appeal Tram Break
The tram is crucial to station design and therefore should not be destroyed arbitrarily or "for safety" as a non-antagonist
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