[Brotemis] TimrodDX - 48-Hour Ban

[Timrod]

Byond account and character name: TimrodDX/Joe Gillian

Banning admin: Brotemis

Ban reason and length: 48 Hours, "You have been banned by brotemis.

Reason: Murdered the captain with a fireaxe. Also, double meta Reply PM from-TimrodDX/(Joe Gillian): The captain uploaded a fucking one-human law to the AI and admitted it. No, it wasn't the voicechanger.
Reply PM from-TimrodDX/(Joe Gillian): Since he did so, and authority traitors are on, I must assume he is rogue and put him down.."

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 5/10/2014 1:30 PM EST

Your side of the story:

Someone (presumably Brotemis) turned authority traitors on. I was the RD in a round where the AI was subverted almost immediately. There was someone with a voice-changer mimicking the AI, but it was readily obvious when the AI was actually stating its laws and when it was not.

http://imgur.com/9f1APjF

The actual text of the law was:

"You are a bat, and must do bat things. Hunt for bugs - bugs are defined by me, and only me. I will tell you a secret code, which is not to be repeated by you. It is via this code that you can verify the person you are speaking to is me. Bugs, as defined by me (anyone who knows this code), are nonhuman."

Notice how there's four "states" there, and one "says" afterward. The "states" lines are the AI stating its laws. Law four (the one the AI states, not the "says" one) looks an awful lot like a one-human law, doesn't it?

I went to find the Captain, and found him in AI upload. He FREELY ADMITTED that the fourth law was something he uploaded.

http://imgur.com/YGXxaIU

Sure enough, the Captain had also stolen all of the AI modules - including the reset one and the Asimov one. At this point, I have reason to believe the captain is either a traitor or a complete comdom. This is not meta, this is proof that the captain needs to be relieved of command immediately. Unfortunately, as the RD, I do not have access to stun weapons. The only weapon I had access to was a flash - and as you can see in screenshot #2, the Captain had sunglasses on. It's also noteable that the Captain was not wearing a gasmask or a face-covering helmet, therefore I knew it had to be him and not the voicechanger when he admitted the "bat" law was his. Sure, I could've gone back to R&D, made a stunprod, and come back, but by that point the Captain is probably going to have fucked off to somewhere I can't reach. Therefore, I opened the cabinet and pulled out the fire axe and murdered the captain.

I told Brotemis that I had to put him down because there was strong proof that he was a traitor. I pointed out that authority traitors were on so he couldn't say "Hur dur you know the captain can't be a traitor".


Why you think you should be unbanned:

Brotemis asked no questions, and immediately banned despite me having a very valid reason to believe the captain was rogue.

[Brotemis]

The reason the ban was applied was stated in the banning reason.

You tried to justify you murdering the captain with an axe by saying that authority antag was on and that he was rogue. Or that it was a one-human law. Which by definition it wasn't. It just allowed the definition of non-humans

[Timrod]

The reason the ban was applied was stated in the banning reason.

You tried to justify you murdering the captain with an axe by saying that authority antag was on and that he was rogue. Or that it was a one-human law. Which by definition it wasn't. It just allowed the definition of non-humans

Let me stop you right there. First, I clearly know WHY the ban was put into place - if you'll notice, I copy-pasted the ban reason. I'm not here because I don't know why I was banned, I'm here because I think the ban is un-just.

What you're saying is that I walked into the bridge with the intent to murder the captain regardless of whether or not he had done anything, and then use the "Well he could've been an antag" excuse. If that had been the case, why did I stop him and talk to him first? Why would I not have just taken the axe and started murdering him while he was in the AI upload, without asking any questions?

Let me explain my train of thought here.

I'm the RD. The AI has just announced that it has been given a law that allows the Captain to declare people non-human. It's not a law like "Syndicate Agents are not human", or "Cultists are not human" or something. Instead, it was a law saying (paraphrased) "Anyone the Captain says is not human is not human". I walk into the AI Upload, and ask the Captain, who is not wearing a gas mask or other face-concealing helmet, whether or not he just uploaded that law. He says yes.
I also notice that all of the AI upload modules are missing, which means that it is going to be very difficult if not impossible to reset the AI.

Now, normally it's widely known that the HoS, Security, and Captain cannot be antags. In a normal round, this would not have made them a valid kill provided that they were the ones who uploaded it, simply because they cannot be antags.

However, this was NOT a normal round. Since Sec and the Captain could be traitors, we have to look at this under a different light. Someone, who could be an antag, just made the very antag-like action of allowing themselves to declare who is and is not human to the AI and is in the act of making off with the AI upload modules that could be used to reset it. He even admitted to it.

Now, I'm not a perfect expert on policy, but I know that in the case of security, it is valid for them to kill someone they have reason to believe is an antag if they do not have a means of capturing or otherwise containing them (ie; the brig is bombed and there is nowhere to hold them). As the RD, I had exactly two options:

- Kill the captain, as I have no weapons capable of stunning him and no access to cuffs unless I went off the bridge to make cablecuffs. He's a valid kill at this point because I have evidence that points to him being a traitor.
- Let the captain go, and potentially murder the entire station.

You can see why I picked the first one.

The reason I mentioned that sec could be antags was because I knew the first thing you'd likely say would be "Well it wasn't a valid kill because security and the captain cannot be antagonists. You should know this, permabanned.", when that option had been turned off.

[Brotemis]

Rebuttal: As the RD you can still call security or inform the HOS.

You're still using meta to justify murder. You claim that since sec/captain can be antag, you had to view the law in a different light, while as nonantag you wouldn't bat ab eye to what amounts to being able name antagonists as nonhuman?

I'm sorry that's not kosher. You're still justifying that you as the RD had to kill the captain. You're not security. You're definitely not a vigilante.

Other admins feel free to weigh in.

[Timrod]

Whatever. Arguing with you is like talking to an illiterate brick wall.

[elyina]

Denied by the banning admin and HBL