[tedward]Banbaiting sustained.

[omnitricks]

Byond account and character name: Omnitricks (Nickolas Ellis)
Banning admin: Tedward
Ban type (What are you banned from?): General
Ban reason and length: Reason: Tossed someone out of the escape shuttle a little too late. 20 mins
Time ban was placed (including time zone): 7:45 pm gmt 29/3
Your side of the story: Shuttle arrived, I rode in with the janitor cart which I "acquired" earlier not that there is much complaints about it from the janitors present. The one who the key belonged to just stated that the key was his and was more interested in keeping his pet syndiedrone to even bother asking for the cart back.

In the shuttle I was just chilling when Claire Gideon suddenly comes out of the blue to disarm me until I fell off the cart. I ignored it and went back on the second time when she did it again.

Obviously I am not going to put up with this constant unprovoked assaults on the shuttle so I slipped and grabbed her. I took her to the shuttle door where I waited until there was about 3 seconds left before I was going to toss her back into the station and leave her stranded so she can't assault me again. Unfortunately I forgot to press the throw button and by the time I got to pressing it the shuttle left and both of us fell. Eventually out of the station and both of us died.

Why you think you should be unbanned: In any case its valid escalation on my part to protect myself from an obvious shitler on the shuttle which is baiting for a response (as she did here) but due to an accident instead of a non lethal albeit permanent solution which I wouldn't have to deal with the rest of the round we both ended up dead.

Admin PM from-Tedward1337: Hey, got a minute?
PM to-Admins: She was harassing me in the shuttle. I was trying to toss her out right before the shuttle left so she would be stranded on the station but I forgot to change to throw.
Admin PM from-Tedward1337: I feel like you shouldve had sec deal with it, instead of taking it into your own hands. That seems reasonable right
PM to-Admins: Sec wouldn't do anything, shuttle was crowded and it was the second time she did it without any provocation.
Admin PM from-Tedward1337: Tossing people out of the shuttle isnt at all acceptable, they only seemed to have disarmed you in the first place. Ill apply a small ban, seeing as you got killed as well
Admin PM from-Tedward1337: See you in a while
PM to-Admins: This falls under the purview of banbaiting all things considered because she out of the blue in the shuttle while I am minding my own business starts disarming me

1. Tedward obviously fails to realize how crowded and chaotic the shuttle gets in a 70+ player round and that sec has better things to do than navigate through that mess when there can be other things which are more dangerous. Hell even the chat box is filled with so many things going on to even make sense of what is going on.
2. He is ignoring the fact that I want her stranded in the station and therefore no longer a nuisance to me for the next 2-3 minutes. This is the best non lethal solution where sec is unable to do anything. Unless of course bashing her head to crit would be better considering she would survive for at least 2 minutes (unless she ghosts) which would reach the end of the round.
3. He also failed to acknowledge the fact that she was the one which started disarming me out of the blue for no reason in the shuttle not once but twice to provoke a response which falls under banbaiting.
4. Both of us ended up dead proving that this was indeed the unintended result (the intended one being me separating myself from her for the next 2-3 minutes as the shuttle moves away from the station)

Again banbaiting. If any admins take this up it would also be a good opportunity to educate Tedward on what exactly is banbaiting and who exactly should be banned for it.

If action cannot be taken against Claire here for the banbaiting because its in the wrong forum feel free to transfer this one to the banreq sub.

[oranges]

>someone disarm/pushes me a few times
> I throw them out into space to a horrible death
>valid escalation

1. You obviously fail to realize how retarded you are
2. You're ignoring the fact you clearly intended to kill them
3. You fail to acknowledge the fact that shuttle greifing is the lowest form of greifing

[omnitricks]

Actually its more like its obvious you are just a shitposter who can't even read. Still in highschool I guess? My brother's language skill is much more better than yours.

Read the above. Specifically: "I took her to the shuttle door where I waited until there was about 3 seconds left before I was going to toss her back into the station and leave her stranded so she can't assault me again." If the logs record opening doors then the proof is there because I opened the outer escape doors 3-5 seconds before the shuttle was about to depart so I can toss her out.

Also its only idiots like you which think I also want to get myself killed in space. If I was going to kill this shitler I would have just buckled myself somewhere and start strangling her to death. At the rate the people were talking/doing stuff in the shuttle, no one would have even realized/bothered to do anything to help her.

Again banbaiting, so get over yourself oranges.

[Vekter]

I'm gonna have to agree with Oranges here. Being disarmed -> spacing someone isn't valid escalation.

[omnitricks]

As I have mentioned before unless you are deliberate ignoring the fact in order to support an unjust appeal, I wasn't trying to space the shitler. I was trying to strand her on the station so that she cannot bother me anymore for the next 2-3 minutes or so during the trip. If I really was going to space her I would have gotten on the cart/chair while still strangling her, wait for the shuttle to leave and only then head to the door to toss her out when the shuttle was in transit.

Instead I took her straight to the airlock after slipping her and waited for the shuttle timer to have 3 seconds left on the clock in which I would have tossed her out if not for me forgetting to press the throw button earlier. The logs would show that otherwise if I really was going to space her I wouldn't have to keep the escape airlock open to toss her back unto the station.

Instead, I ended up getting spaced along with the shitler because I was trying to pursue a non lethal mean of separating myself from her. Do you really think I would take such pains and risks to keep her alive when it would be more easier to end her e.g. strangling or bashing her brains out with my other free hand?

In essence this is a classic case of banbaiting but instead of banning the one who banbait (which is obviously against the rules) you guys rather ban based on the result of the actions because you are too lazy to check through the logs for any proof which collaborates with what I've mentioned above. Probably death or no death she would have ahelped either way because by your logic, disarm = no other means of protecting yourself.

[Vekter]

Omni, it's not banbaiting to disarm someone off of a janicart. I don't know why every little transgression against you has to be a rules violation.

You made a mistake by failing to hit the throw button and getting her killed. You got banned because you fucked up.

[omnitricks]

And you fail to realize the simple question. Why the fuck was she disarming me in the shuttle in the first place? Not just once mind you, but twice. I even tried to ignore this little shitler after the second time but she was circling around me like a fucking vulture so I had to get her out of the shuttle where she can't continue or risk the next three minutes putting up with her annoyance or worse.

She had no reason to disarm the entire time other than to illicit a response which she can use to ahelp. She was not even a janitor which would at least give a reason to disarm me off the cart as the janitors (both of them) didn't even give two shits. For all intents and purposes that is banbaiting. Pure and simple. Whether I "fucked up" or not by being unable to throw her off because the button wasn't pressed which, ended up in my death as well.

Unless your narrow little incompetent shitmin mind cannot even comprehend anything except how to get people banned not because they violate the fucking rules you ignore every other time at your discretion with your bullshit rule 0 trumping all the other established rules which people expect to be followed, but because you are too fucking lazy to look at the evidence and collaborate with the events deciding to look at the end result as a shortcut instead. I already told you what happened and what to look for in your logs which would match up but no. "Lelz ban bcos imma shit admin."

Banbaiting. Read it up. Or don't since you obviously are going to rely on rule 0 anyway. At the very least if you are going to ban me because "lel its not escalation for trying to get rid of someone randomly assaulting you fnr" which is rather weak assed given the circumstances you also ban this little shitler for banbaiting which, I will repeat again, is an established part of the rules.

[Malkevin]

As a prominent Sec player I'm posting this as an Expert Witness under the An0n3 amendment.

I'm actually on the side of Omnitricks on this.

The sheer amount of shuttle grief on the average packed sybil shuttle is absolutely disgusting.
Shuttle Grief, I might remind you, is a bannable offence.


Because theres so many people crammed onto the shuttle a cry for help from security will not be answered because:
1. They're not likely to see the message because of all the chat spam from the high concentration of players, and they're probably keeping their eyes focused on the game window lest a griffin sneak up and steal their guns.
2. They're not likely to even be able to reach you because the walkways are so packed.
3. Or, like me, they'll be cowering up at the top of the shuttle afraid to go out and do their duty because as soon as Sec tries to do anything Law-wise they're going to get mugged by a couple of shit stains.

Really, the only time I've seen people sit down and shut the fuck up was when I poly acided the face off of some cultists.

So no, Omni wouldn't have been able to get sec to deal with it and would've had to have taken matters into their own hands, or roll over and take the grief up the arse.


Omni might've stolen the cart originally, but Claire was not the janitor so its not like she was trying to take her property back - two wrongs don't make a right.
1. Claire was the one that instigated the fight
2. She did it to steal something
Ergo, she was the one that was shuttle griefing not Omni - which I will remind you again that shuttle grief is a bannable offence.


Yes it might only be a 20 minute ban but at the end of the day it was the wrong person that was banned.

[Poorman]

Alright, I actually think that something should air out here.

I had no idea who this dude was, all I saw was an assistant on a janitor cart. I figured that it didn't actually belong to him, so I decided to just disarm him a couple times and try to take the cart. He wasn't janitor, I had no intention of doing anything outside dicking around with the cart for the next seemingly 2 minutes of the game. That's whatever. I just reported it because I thought he'd gotten a little out of hand with his retribution, and figured I should at least let the admins know.

Now that I see this is Omnitricks,

I need to bring up a recent round where I was playing HoP, and he was a cargo technician. He'd been lubing the floors, shocking doors, tried to kidnap the CE because he was trying to get an emitter back that the guy stole, so I ended up demoting him to assistant and throwing him out into the station walkways. He was playing as Dominick Minme, or someone. Not sure, can't remember, but it wasn't this guy.

After the round ended, he wasn't a traitor, but then he started to say some things in OOC,

Pastebin: Full OOC logs post round: http://pastebin.com/z2SpNYRV

http://i.gyazo.com/f17d48a5885a0bb10356c60b73e1d122.png
http://i.gyazo.com/1f74cc949440e6fc4b58cbbfee3b6274.png

I didn't report it because I had a lot of things to do, and I sort of let it slide figuring that he was just salty OOC and didn't mean it, but now I'm pretty sure he didn't just space me because of the cart alone.

Omnitricks is a metagrudger. He admitted it himself. I don't know if I'm gonna get banned for what I did, I really don't think that it's called for, but I figured that the banning admins should have this information before they make a decision.

[oranges]

I think it's well established that a little bit of back and forth between people is acceptable, so the intial pushing would be okay, as long as they left you alone if you didn't respond after a little while. Hell, aren't you one of the people always advocating for more IC handling of stuff?

However throwing someone out of the shuttle, either back into the station or out into space isn't an acceptable response to that, you could've just pushed them back or buckled them to a chair or something proportionate and then let it escalate from there. Instead you immediately decided to strand them on the station because you wanted to get back at them, then you fucked it up and threw them out into space and to top it all off you come back and make a thread blaming them for your fuckup and trying to get them banned.

I don't know how you reconcile this in your head

[lumipharon]

oranges are you actually reading this?
Unless he's simply lying (which logs would show), he said they BOTH got sucked out of the open airlock. He didn't throw the guy.

[Vekter]

Okay, let me try and spell this out to you.

Banbaiting is defined as trying to get another player to break the rules and get banned. It's not banbaiting when someone knocks you down twice, that's assault. I would see no problem with you at least knocking them out or trying to get them to fuck off instead of you accidentally killing them for no reason.

If you legit feel you're being shuttle griefed adminhelp it instead of trying (and failing) to handle it yourself.

Request denied.

[oranges]

I don't care if they died, their intent was to strand someone else on the shuttle and they actually ended up killing them. The fact they sucked them-self out the airlock is irrelevant. Your own accidental death doesn't change the fact you had the intent to strand them, so it shouldn't lessen the punishment.

if you say had intended to push them down next to the airlock and then they got sucked out by accident, well then in that case intent was different and punishment should be lighter.

Hopefully that explains why I kept with the angle I had.

[Malkevin]

But look at poor man's testimony

I had no idea who this dude was, all I saw was an assistant on a janitor cart. I figured that it didn't actually belong to him, so I decided to just disarm him a couple times and try to take the cart. He wasn't janitor, I had no intention of doing anything outside dicking around with the cart for the next seemingly 2 minutes of the game. That's whatever. I just reported it because I thought he'd gotten a little out of hand with his retribution, and figured I should at least let the admins know.

By his own admission he instigated a fight with omni only to steal the cart to derp about for two minutes
Is that really the behaviour you want to encourage?
Because by punishing the victim you ARE encouraging that they can get away with it.

Being dead in a mutually assured accidental death for two minutes is a much lighter punishment than the fifteen minutes they should've got.

[imblyings]

This shouldn't have been a ban or a thread.

Unless there are logs proving otherwise, Omnitricks was not breaking rule 1 by being a jerk out of character, as given the lack of enforced canon, it was sufficiently justifiable to have a character try to strand someone who's been pushing him about for no reason. Rule 4 does not come into effect if we apply the example or explanation listed below it, where violations of rule 4 cover incidents like 'random murders'. Roleplay policy rule 6 also does not come into effect, as it states that "Shuttle griefing is attacking people or preventing people boarding before the shuttle has launched for no IC reason."

As explained above, Omnitricks had sufficient grounds for IC justification of his actions. That he fucked up the throw key shouldn't matter due to Primary Policy rule 3, which essentially states, 'shit happens, deal with it', which is what happened with Omnitricks fucking up the throw key. The removal of Poorman from the round for two minutes until a new round starts shouldn't be covered by rule 1 either, as there was no intention to ruin his 'good time', only to stop any further shuttle grief initiated by Poorman from continuing.

Of course you can quote rule 0 and say that admin discretion was applied here but every other rule and evidence offered here point to this literally being an IC issue that should have never showed up in FNR.

[MrBrownFullFrown]

All i can say about Claire is that she metagrudges. Intensely.

[Poorman]

But look at poor man's testimony

I had no idea who this dude was, all I saw was an assistant on a janitor cart. I figured that it didn't actually belong to him, so I decided to just disarm him a couple times and try to take the cart. He wasn't janitor, I had no intention of doing anything outside dicking around with the cart for the next seemingly 2 minutes of the game. That's whatever. I just reported it because I thought he'd gotten a little out of hand with his retribution, and figured I should at least let the admins know.

By his own admission he instigated a fight with omni only to steal the cart to derp about for two minutes
Is that really the behaviour you want to encourage?
Because by punishing the victim you ARE encouraging that they can get away with it.

Being dead in a mutually assured accidental death for two minutes is a much lighter punishment than the fifteen minutes they should've got.

kek

Glad you took away nothing from my testimony, hombre, other than I said "I was messing around with someone."

You really shouldn't be posting in this thread, considering you have no relation to the incident at all.

[Jeb]

Ban reason and length: Reason: Tossed someone out of the escape shuttle a little too late. 20 mins

It was a 20 minute ban, which has since long come and expired, of which you posted an appeal in the Ban Request forum.

It's already been denied by an admin, so if locking this is in error please PM me or another SMod to have it unlocked for further discussion.