Administration General Feedback

Tell the admins how you think they're doing.

Moderators: In-Game Head Admins, In-Game Game Master

User avatar
MrStonedOne
Host
 
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:56 pm
Byond Username: MrStonedOne
Github Username: MrStonedOne

Administration General Feedback

Postby MrStonedOne » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:51 pm #58066

This is an open thread for any feedback for the administration as a whole to read and reflect on. This is also where you would go to let the headmins know how you feel about their management of the administration.

This is not the place to discuss ban appeals, admin complaints, or ban requests.
Forum/Wiki Administrator, Server host, Database King, Master Coder


MrStonedOne on Reddit(banned), Steam, IRC, Skype Discord.

[10:55 AM] spookydonut: stonedmc is the work of a criminally insane mad genius



User avatar
AdenAbrafo
 
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 7:38 pm
Byond Username: AdenAbrafo

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby AdenAbrafo » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:16 am #58073

Since I requested this be made I should probably highlight what I think the current administration should work on, as well as what is a problem.

- Communication. In the Tedward trial thread one of the headmins say that it is just a general guideline for their decision while the other says it is the deciding factor. This lack of communication leads to bigger problems, and if the purpose of the poll can't even properly be established then how much are you guys actually communicating to manage the server?
If the purpose of the poll was changed after player criticism that leads to another problem. We shouldn't be getting punished for supplying feedback, but I doubt that's what happened since that is pretty bad.

- Consistency. Evidently this is one of the things I am concerned with and I am sure most of the community is concerned with. Previous incidents of ingame admin abuse have been handled almost exclusively internally with little to no community feedback, and if there was any then it seemingly wasn't taken into consideration. If the trial thread was the first step in the right direction then it would be nice for you to acknowledge past mistakes. To most of the players it just seemed like a disproportionate response to an incident that wasn't as major as previous incidents.
I'd like to see more owning up for mistakes made as administration, even if there aren't many. It shows that you're moving in the right direction.

- Transparency. I believe most of the community feels that not much is getting done. A short explanation of the outcome of certain events that take place in the community would probably fix it. Telling us how admins that abused their privileges were punished when it's not a deadminning might help with this. This isn't because I'm a sadist who gets off on the fact that I can get someone I don't even know mildly punished in a video game, it's because I want to know something was done.
Letting the community in on what you guys are actually doing in general would definitely help with the feeling that nothing is happening.
Nick Elwood says, "brain your guitly of incompitence and sencected to public flogging and banishment"
DEAD: Andrew Mitchell says, "LIONUS HAS ANGER ISSUES AND AUTISM"

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby oranges » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:28 am #58078

What bothers me is a seeming insistence that any issue has to be judged soley on it's own merits, without weighing up previous incidents. I think it's very important for high quality rulings that you consider the infraction against a wide range of other infractions and their related rulings. I suspect this would help along the consistency lines as well.

I will acknowledge the fact that some members will use this as an opportunity to bring up their grievances, but thats a moderation issue. As long as someone can cite a clear relationship such things should be allowed.

User avatar
Ikarrus
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:17 am
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Ikarrus
Github Username: Ikarrus

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:30 am #58079

Since I requested this be made I should probably highlight what I think the current administration should work on, as well as what is a problem.

[...]

Thanks for this. I really appreciate you doing this. And yes, I generally agree that these are important things we can work on.

As for your Communication point, an0n3 and I were very much in communication with each other the entire way through. What may differ here could just be a difference in opinion. It's difficult to get consistent communication when you have three equal leaders with different opinions.

I think what may have happened here is that although we may agree with each other on specific resolutions, our reasoning may differ. I only wanted to see how offended people would be at the incident. An0n3 may have had a different reasoning.

oranges wrote:What bothers me is a seeming insistence that any issue has to be judged soley on it's own merits, without weighing up previous incidents. I think it's very important for high quality rulings that you consider the infraction against a wide range of other infractions and their related rulings. I suspect this would help along the consistency lines as well.

I will acknowledge the fact that some members will use this as an opportunity to bring up their grievances, but thats a moderation issue. As long as someone can cite a clear relationship such things should be allowed.

Do you mean we should be looking closer at common law systems?
Former Dev/Headmin
Who is this guy?

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby oranges » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:37 am #58082

Well without being too rediculous about it, I just think precedent should have some weighting with regard to rulings, along with recognizing that a infraction doesn't always have the same impact on the game (even when the same ruling is broken)

User avatar
Ikarrus
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:17 am
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Ikarrus
Github Username: Ikarrus

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:45 am #58086

That's fair, and I understand the importance behind it.

In Tedward's case, however, I didn't see the two incidents (Tedward vs Sticky (And Blessed)) as being similar at all. I personally would consider giving yourself an advantage using admin powers to be far more serious than what sticky did. But that is my opinion and I believe Tedward's thread showed that it was not in alignment with what the community generally believed.
Former Dev/Headmin
Who is this guy?

User avatar
AdenAbrafo
 
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 7:38 pm
Byond Username: AdenAbrafo

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby AdenAbrafo » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:54 am #58089

oranges wrote:Well without being too rediculous about it, I just think precedent should have some weighting with regard to rulings, along with recognizing that a infraction doesn't always have the same impact on the game (even when the same ruling is broken)

To elaborate on this, I think what really needs to be taken into consideration when considering a punishment is whether the actions effected other players and whether the intent behind the actions was malicious.
Yes, Tedward messed up bad and broke the rules so he should be punished, but was it as bad as what sticky did? Straight up in a black and white viewpoint it might seem like Tedward did worse, but it didn't take anyone out of the round and he didn't do it with a plan to even interact with other players. Moving forward it might be best to consider the maliciousness of the offender's actions when punishing them.
Last edited by AdenAbrafo on Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
Nick Elwood says, "brain your guitly of incompitence and sencected to public flogging and banishment"
DEAD: Andrew Mitchell says, "LIONUS HAS ANGER ISSUES AND AUTISM"

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby oranges » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:06 am #58125

Ikarrus wrote:That's fair, and I understand the importance behind it.

In Tedward's case, however, I didn't see the two incidents (Tedward vs Sticky) as being similar at all. I personally would consider giving yourself an advantage using admin powers to be far more serious than what sticky did. But that is my opinion and I believe Tedward's thread showed that it was not in alignment with what the community generally believed.


Lets not get too far into specifics but in the thread I was trying to evaluate Tedwards punishment vs Blesseds, both had a similar impact (spawning an item - one for themself, one for another player) and the punishments are very different because the rules they broke are different (spawning items for yourself vs others). Blessed recieved no punishment other than being told not to do it again as far as I am aware, tedward however was deadminned and a vote made to discuss their future.

Again, both incidents had similar impact on other players, and both Admins had reasonably good records up until that point.

This is what I'm talking about with regard to constrasting this event with previous events with a similar impact.

NB: I'm sidestepping the rejuvenation issue in blesseds complaint.

User avatar
Sum Ting Wong
 
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Sum Ting Wong » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:10 am #58126

Watching you folks play it fast and loose with the server is maddening.

I've played here for four years. During that time I tried to point out favoritism or general dickery that I thought was unjust. Eventually I had to stop giving a shit because it became abundantly clear that my input was ignored or treated with scorn.

I'm tired of watching admins do extremely stupid CHELP while at the same time get off punishment free. I have no urge to create an in-depth critique of the administration when they themselves cannot stay true to their own rules or have a concrete standard of policy. An open bridge of communication is meaningless when both sides are playing shadow games. Consistency cannot and should not be expected after the many years of wildly varying judgments. Transparency is frankly impossible.

I would like to say that I have zero faith in the admins here, but I know that a lot of them try their best to keep things going. After years of the above though I don't think I can care about the way the server is handled anymore.

User avatar
bandit
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:35 pm
Byond Username: Bgobandit

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby bandit » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:15 am #58128

I have a number of issues:

- The accountability process seems to be very haphazard and disorganized. You have a few admins who can basically get away with anything and receive infinite chances, and then you have people like Tedward who are instantly deadminned over a stamp. Some of this happens in public and some in private. There is very little rhyme or reason, it seems, to which happens when, which suggests that there are politics going on.

- A lot of major code changes are being thrust through with insufficient testing or feedback; I would have hoped this would be the role of the coder-elected headmin.

I'll reply if I think of more.
"I don't see any difference between ERP and rape." -- erro

admin feedback pls

User avatar
Timbrewolf
Rarely plays
 
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:55 am
Byond Username: An0n3

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Timbrewolf » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:29 am #58160

Understand that there's a very grave difference in offense between what Tedward did and the "anything" that the other admins have "gotten away with".

This wasn't a case of bias againt Tedward, it was him breaking a very different and very important rule. While it might look the same from your end of things, from the administrative perspective it's apples and oranges.

A lot of us try very hard, put in a lot of time and accrue a lot of stress and ill-will from people to do our best to make sure this is a fair and fun place to play. It is personally insulting after all that effort to have that ignored or maligned. I feel like I have to stand up for everyone involved when I hear claims like that, so I apologize for being confrontational in those circumstances...but if folks could take a second to fact check or read into their own words before saying them I might not have the opportunity to do that so much.

I would like to think we can hold our admins as accountable for their actions as our players, and if you look at the history of /tg/station we are doing a better job of that than has ever been done before. There were some dark ages of shit, real conspiracy stuff, that are unlikely to ever happen again because of the current atmosphere. We are stressing cooperation and accountability more than ever before. Unfortunately all too often people just want someone's head on a stick, and you're not going to get that if the circumstances don't measure up to it.

bandit wrote:- A lot of major code changes are being thrust through with insufficient testing or feedback; I would have hoped this would be the role of the coder-elected headmin.


Hornygranny has a unique position in that he sort of has a foot in both camps but game design and the codebase isn't something we have control over as admins. Surely we have some measure of influence but that comes from us being acquainted and asking nicely. Any random admin can't affect that any more than a random coder could decide to change our policy about, say, IC in OOC just for example.
Shed Wolf Numero Uno

NSFW:
Image

User avatar
Sum Ting Wong
 
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:40 pm

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Sum Ting Wong » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:22 am #58209

How do you determine appropriate punishments when it comes to admin abuse?

edit: When it comes to spawning items and such, I mean. Do you measure it by how dangerous an item is or the impact it will have on the round?

iRazgriz
 
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:40 am

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby iRazgriz » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:37 am #58236

I haven't been on /tg/ for more than a year, but I remember that the biggest admin issue back then was transparency.

And it looks like it's still a thing.
Image

User avatar
Ikarrus
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:17 am
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Ikarrus
Github Username: Ikarrus

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:43 am #58238

Public logs is something I'd like to push for sometime soon.
Former Dev/Headmin
Who is this guy?

iRazgriz
 
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:40 am

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby iRazgriz » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:54 am #58244

Ikarrus wrote:Public logs is something I'd like to push for sometime soon.


You mean all the logs, admin actions included?
Image

dezzmont
 
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:07 pm
Byond Username: Dezzmont

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby dezzmont » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:44 am #58272

I think that discussions about admin misbehavior really missed a key point, we shouldn't just ask what is a core violation of an admin's responsibility's and trust, but why. This may be a bit too topical to a specific admin feedback, and if so, sorry, feel free to move this or something, but I think it is relevant because it is addressing general admin policy. I also want to stress that the idea you had about using the town hall to discuss something serious, that causes real angst in the playerbase when it happens and letting people talk about what they think needs to be done, even if it isn't a direct democracy, is a fantastic idea and really goes to show how strong a leadership team you have. The logic in why you did it was spot on, it is really hard to gauge what is seen as being an affront to a group's trust when you are an outsider who hold all the cards and who regularly interacts with this person, especially because from what I picked up the person in question is a friendly guy and that can really color what you think about the situation.

I think looking at it from the lens of "Using admin powers for personal gain is the ultimate evil and is why Tedward's actions are worse" is wrong. It is pretty clear for some reason that doesn't sit right for a lot of people. Granted, it is an absurdly skummy thing to do, but the logic just feels off and icky.

Imagine if one day you got punched in the face. No real reason, just punched in the face. Dude just decked you. Then, the next day, someone takes something that doesn't belong to them. Not from anyone in particular mind, this metaphor would break down if this crime had a victim, so imagine he stole a public item from a public place. Which do you feel is more of an affront? Getting punched in the face? Or someone taking something for themselves that doesn't really hurt anyone even though he shouldn't do it. Most people would say assault.

To take the metaphor in another direction, say you are playing an RPG and the GM says "You lose 2 gold coins as a thief bumps into you. You don't get to roll to resist, GM fiat." You would be upset right? Now imagine that same scenario but the GM says, out of the blue, "Rocks fall, you die. No, you didn't do anything wrong, I am invoking the finger of god. Go roll up a new character and be back in 45 minutes, but don't leave or you may have to join late." One of these scenarios feels way shittier to the people who are observing the person abusing their power.

Ultimately, the fact that abusing things to your own benefit in minor ways is more tempting may be the saving grace of it. You are not going out to hurt anyone, you are not someone proving they have a very poor opinion of the responsibilities they hold merely by considering the action. It is a moral failing, something you are tempted to justify to do and that affects everyone. Everyone has those moments where they think a minor abuse of power or trust that doesn't really hurt anything is tempting, and I would think almost everyone has fallen to those impulses at one point or another.

Meanwhile, using powers to do remarkably shitty things to other people is in some ways a higher form of abuse. You are not doing it because you are tempted by personal gain that doesn't seem to hurt anyone, you are doing it for darker reasons. The only reason to spawn a worm at escape that you control to kill people is because of the power rush from such crass abuse of others. It is the ultimate form of abuse because you are getting enjoyment out of just going nuts, losing all inhibitions, and rather maliciously venting your abilities on other people who have absolutely no ability to resist. It raises massive questions about why you are even an admin and shows how little impulse control you have and how poor your empathy is. People do not ever appreciate being treated like ants to be melted by a magnifying glass.

Likewise, I think the reason people find the idea of admins not being deadminned for griefing people has a lot to do with the reason that a police officer is taken off the force if they commit a crime, even if they were not on duty or using police powers. Once you show that lack of impulse control and willingness to do those things "just cuz" even though you know, as a person with the ability to enforce social norms and codes, that they violate those norms and codes, it outs you as someone who doesn't respect what those rules mean to the people who are protected by them. It is a more fundamental violation of trust in some ways because if you don't give a shit about the rules it is clear you may not enforce them fairly, after all you didn't enforce them on yourself, which is in some ways the ultimate indulgence. The gain, and there has to be some or else people wouldn't do this, is the abuse, which is super fucked up.

At any rate, the point of the thread in question was to get an idea of how the community feels about such an abuse because the admins felt that they were not able to speak for the community, so I think the community pointing out that they don't feel that this was the ultimate abuse compared to some other very real and abusive things is pretty valid feedback, even if the tone was beyond shitty. Part of being a good leader of a community is being able to channel anger and feelings of injustice in a constructive and conciliatory direction, which was shown in the thread amongst some failures as well. When players repeatedly tell you that they don't agree with what is happening and feel wronged, or want something else to be done, a good question to ask them and yourself is why. Those feelings are coming from a real place and even if they are misguided you need to figure out where they are coming from to address them. Maybe I am wrong, and the idea of an admin being willing to just do shitty things to other people with their powers or even without them isn't actually as bad as I think, but I sure as hell feel like it is worse than an admin doing something undeniably stupid and selfish, but ultimately not the behavior of a sociopath.

PostThis post was deleted by Ikarrus on Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:45 pm.
Reason: I dont know what the fuck I'm trying to say I'll try again later

User avatar
Ikarrus
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:17 am
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Ikarrus
Github Username: Ikarrus

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:50 pm #58409

oranges wrote:Lets not get too far into specifics but in the thread I was trying to evaluate Tedwards punishment vs Blesseds, both had a similar impact (spawning an item - one for themself, one for another player) and the punishments are very different because the rules they broke are different (spawning items for yourself vs others). Blessed recieved no punishment other than being told not to do it again as far as I am aware, tedward however was deadminned and a vote made to discuss their future.

Again, both incidents had similar impact on other players, and both Admins had reasonably good records up until that point.

This is what I'm talking about with regard to constrasting this event with previous events with a similar impact.

NB: I'm sidestepping the rejuvenation issue in blesseds complaint.

I've been thinking, and although we saw them differently, I don't think we treated Tedward's case any more severe than Blessed's or Sticky's at all, had we not made a big show about Tedward's.

An0n3 and I both never really wanted to de-admin Tedward. We agreed that Tedward was a model admin that's caused no trouble at all and deserved some clemency. We were just uncertain how the community would take it (We actually expected everyone to raise pitchforks towards us for protecting admin interest over players) because it was self-serving rather than just a shitty event idea.

Tedward's community hearing was a terrific failure of communication on my part, but I'm glad the players agreed with us in the end.

Sticky's and Blessed's intentions were simply seen as very poor ideas of what is considered a good event (Something both blessed and sticky have both had troubles with) instead of anything outright malicious. So their actions were treated as shitty events rather than grief.

I don't think we would want to punish bad admin events too harshly, otherwise no admin would ever want to run any out of fear the playerbase wouldn't like it. We do want to stop admins from running bad events, which is why they got penalized the way they did.

Note that, I was not involved in the discussion around Blessed's complaint as I was on vacation at the time (Which is why I'm not talking too much about it). And I actually wanted Sticky to serve a longer disciplinary term for his case (I believe the terms we gave him were "until appeal" but sos decided to reinstate him after a week).
Former Dev/Headmin
Who is this guy?

User avatar
Ikarrus
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:17 am
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Ikarrus
Github Username: Ikarrus

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:15 pm #58416

iRazgriz wrote:
Ikarrus wrote:Public logs is something I'd like to push for sometime soon.


You mean all the logs, admin actions included?

It wouldn't make sense in the context of my reply if I would withhold admin logs.
Former Dev/Headmin
Who is this guy?

PostThis post was deleted by MrStonedOne on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:46 pm.
Reason: Requested

User avatar
Fragnostic
 
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 2:11 am
Byond Username: Fragnostic

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Fragnostic » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:49 am #75017

Why did paprika get banned again?
He made a different account on GitHub, but he's just banned from playing the game, correct? He wouldn't be able to keep a connection on the servers and what else?

Seems sort of unfair, considering that he was trying to redeem himself and then that was considered ban evading. Is that ban evading if it's on GitHub.
Image

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:43 am #75033

Do note he took his opportunity to "ban evade" on Github by proceeding to scream and argue with people.
Image

User avatar
Fragnostic
 
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 2:11 am
Byond Username: Fragnostic

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Fragnostic » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:42 am #75043

Admittedly, I did see that and I just felt it was a lost cause defending him. But he's passionate, I'll give him that. At first, when he was banned, he started making a bug fix PRs to redeem himself, and then the obvious alternate account (not-paprika). He tried to stay reasonable, but it did devolve into what is considered abrasive behaviour. This was originally a /tg/ community, not the sort of culture a /b/tard would bring, but a lot of the drama he is hated for was not even game related, and rather very personal.
For example, the Elyina/Intigracy deal, mocking Violaceus for his actions. None of this is related to the game. What links these two is a forum.. Are we SS13 oriented, or a gaming community where we can commune in? I'm fine with whatever answer I get, if at all. I'm just wondering how someone is being punished via a game for things not related to the game. That seems to be most of everyone's deal with him, him being a jerk who demeans others' issues(that are not SS13 related, ugh)
I didn't neccesarily like paprika, but it just doesn't seem right.

I could say a lot of people hate HG and Anon3 for banning ERP and showing their support for that. Maybe such a change is indicative of a lack of understanding and they are just idiots who don't get the appeal, but it's not grounds to hate them. At that point it becomes personal, and it's no longer about the game.

It's no one's job to shield the easily offended from nastiness on a forum, it's only important to keep it objective, hence the rules. If he's too mean, he should have stayed on mod approval posting. His deal with us was on the forum, not the game. And now we have the issue of ban evasion, but this was on GitHub and not on the servers. If one cannot see the problem, maybe a nice quote from one of our administrators should help.
Hornygranny wrote:It's not your codebase. It's our codebase. You can imply soft power as much as you want, but you don't have it. Division between the server and project is absolute.

To me, this means that the /tg/ code repository belongs to all of the contributors and no one else. From what I've seen, paprika was a great contributor and thus belonged to a completely separate community. Punishing him anywhere else could stop him from his unwanted presence in that community(/tg/ GitHub), but it's not a fair/reasonable punishment.
Image

User avatar
AdenAbrafo
 
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 7:38 pm
Byond Username: AdenAbrafo

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby AdenAbrafo » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:58 pm #75093

Fragnostic man, can you really not understand why Pap was banned? His alt account started off rude and abrasive so saying he tried to stay reasonable is silly.
All of the OOC issues you brought up are valid reasons because they were in official /tg/station channels. It isn't the server and forums that are allegedly separate it's the server and the codebase. On the forums he was more than just rude and abrasive, he was outright hostile and went out of his way to be hostile. Mod-approved posting was shown to be ineffective. As for the codebase, the codebase decided they didn't want him and his ban evasion there showed that he hadn't actually matured or understood why he was wrong like he said.
I get that your whole shtick is basically questioning logical decisions and trying to find loopholes in the rules under the guise of 'is it morally correct??' but seriously dude c'mon
Nick Elwood says, "brain your guitly of incompitence and sencected to public flogging and banishment"
DEAD: Andrew Mitchell says, "LIONUS HAS ANGER ISSUES AND AUTISM"

User avatar
Fragnostic
 
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 2:11 am
Byond Username: Fragnostic

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Fragnostic » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:18 am #75368

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you pretty much said that I'm somehow trying to logically circumvent a ruling because of moral/ethics.

I have literally no reason to defend paprika/want them back. I really didn't like their attitude sometimes, made shitty changes, and was the center of attention of the community from being so difficult to interact with.

It just doesn't make sense. HG, a headcoder and Headmin said something along the lines of: The codebase and the game server are two separate entities. I'm assuming you didn't like them because of their attitude in general(forums, GitHub). Why not just ban them where they'll cause trouble. A player that gets permabanned can still access the forums and post appeals, participate in discussion, SS13 related or not. Why? Because they're also two separate entities.

Hell, even /vg/ banned paprika preemptively from their codebase, but I'm sure that that doesn't disallow him from playing on their servers or posting on their forums.

What I'm saying is that it's only fair for someone to banished where they cause trouble. I've seen paprika in-game before and he was a surprisingly decent player. Okay, he's rule-breaking rude in the forums? Mod approved posting. He's being excessively hostile and petty on Git? Ban him from Git. He makes alternate accounts to circumvent(ban evasion lol) the Git "ban"? Never let him make a contribution ever again.

Yet, what did he do in-game to be banned from playing?
Image

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Steelpoint » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:20 am #75369

Going on what I can put togther...

Paprika was allowed back to play on the server under the condition he avoided doing anything on the forums or github, such as making arguments or anything for that matter. However around 24 hours later he got into a massive argument, which he initiated, on a PR. Thus he was banned from the server.
Image

User avatar
Stickymayhem
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
Byond Username: Stickymayhem

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Stickymayhem » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:45 am #75387

If any of us cared about paprika's wellbeing I'd say it was for his own good.

He just isn't capable of not sperging the fuck out in the tg community. He needs a complete and total seperation from the community for a long time. I doubt he'd ever change, he seems to be stuck in some childish egocentric self-destructive behaviour.
Image

Image

User avatar
AdenAbrafo
 
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 7:38 pm
Byond Username: AdenAbrafo

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby AdenAbrafo » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:06 pm #75396

Because of this rule, along with all the stuff everyone has already said multiple times in other threads, and the fact he went directly against the person who unbanned him's wishes to not start shit.
We’re all here to have a good time. If you’re intentionally trying to ruin everyone else’s good time, you won’t have a place here. Being a jerk in-character is fine to a point, but being a jerk out of character is not welcome at all.
Nick Elwood says, "brain your guitly of incompitence and sencected to public flogging and banishment"
DEAD: Andrew Mitchell says, "LIONUS HAS ANGER ISSUES AND AUTISM"

User avatar
NikNakFlak
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:08 pm
Byond Username: NikNakflak

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby NikNakFlak » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:52 pm #75439

Paprka is banned from the /vg/ server for initially encouraging people to bug abuse on their server. The reason changed now but they are still banned.
REDACTED
pm for deets

User avatar
Vekter
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Byond Username: Vekter

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Vekter » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:10 pm #75735

Pap was banned again for violating his probation, the terms of which included staying banned on all other /tg/station assets.
Image
Image


Spoiler:
[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you

User avatar
Ikarrus
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:17 am
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Ikarrus
Github Username: Ikarrus

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Fri May 15, 2015 11:18 pm #88420

I do not believe the current head admins are doing their duty of keeping FNR running.

We have several threads that have been sitting open without comment for weeks, the oldest one dating all the way back to April 15th.

Head admins should be stepping in and resolving disputes that have stalled. I don't believe any ban appeal, request, complaint, or policy question should be left without comment for more than a few days.

I ask that the triumvirate not wait for input from all seats for minor housekeeping matters like these. How the previous triumvirate carried itself was to allow individual head admins to make a ruling on minor matters, while leaving it open to the other two headmins to contest and overturn.

This procedure worked for us in the past without conflict, and I strongly recommend the head admins to put more emphasis on action than waiting, either for discussion or for things to resolve by themselves.
Former Dev/Headmin
Who is this guy?

onleavedontatme
 
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm
Byond Username: KorPhaeron

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby onleavedontatme » Sat May 16, 2015 2:09 am #88450

Several of said languishing bans are for ambiguous situations and non-malevolent behavior. I guess my general administration feedback is that some admins are too quick to ban for the sake of banning, and the rules for the sake of rules, rather than to make sure everyone is having a good time and erring on the side of not punishing people.

User avatar
NikNakFlak
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:08 pm
Byond Username: NikNakflak

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby NikNakFlak » Sun May 17, 2015 10:45 pm #88782

All current ban appeals that are unresolved or being left in the dust have been PM'd and sent to their retrospective admins. In other words, I agree with Ikarrus and people should stop being lazy and resolve their damn appeals.
REDACTED
pm for deets

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby oranges » Tue May 26, 2015 8:57 pm #90942

There seems to be a small habit forming where a thread in policy or FNR sub forums with a lot of offtopic and fighting posts get's locked instead of cleaned up.

See for example this recent policy thread:\
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3693

This is a somewhat disappointing trend, as it means all people need to do to get a thread shut down that they do not like is to argue and get off topic in it.
I would ask that the administrators clean out off topic posts instead and don't lock threads until they're actually answered.

User avatar
Jeb
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:01 pm
Byond Username: Stapler2025

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Jeb » Thu May 28, 2015 4:22 am #91215

Ikarrus wrote:I do not believe the current head admins are doing their duty of keeping FNR running.

We have several threads that have been sitting open without comment for weeks, the oldest one dating all the way back to April 15th.

Head admins should be stepping in and resolving disputes that have stalled. I don't believe any ban appeal, request, complaint, or policy question should be left without comment for more than a few days.

I ask that the triumvirate not wait for input from all seats for minor housekeeping matters like these. How the previous triumvirate carried itself was to allow individual head admins to make a ruling on minor matters, while leaving it open to the other two headmins to contest and overturn.

This procedure worked for us in the past without conflict, and I strongly recommend the head admins to put more emphasis on action than waiting, either for discussion or for things to resolve by themselves.


This.

See the threads Tsar just locked stating "Well I gave time for the headmins to respond but they didn't feel like it I guess".

Headmins need to step up or resign if they can't commit the time IMO.
Image
Unbiased Global Moderator
Guy that made a thing that got put on the homepage of /tg/station13
Defeated in the Great Purge of 2014
[Security] Fiz Bump says, "Beats me, I'm not a scientist. But this is a problem that can be solved with harmbatons."
Johnson Fitzwell asks, "HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU STILL ALIVE?"
Image

User avatar
Tunder
 
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 2:08 am
Location: Killadelphia, Pistolvania
Byond Username: Tunderchief

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Tunder » Thu May 28, 2015 7:50 am #91237

The entire administration, from forum moderation to in-game rule enforcement and button pressing, has gotten sloppy since SoS left.

Just my two cents.

Also literally no admin accountability once you guys make Game Admin, in regards to fucking up rounds due to unnecessary intervention.

And I don't recognize any of the newer admins, trials or candidates, even though I've been here without long gaps for years, which means they aren't being held to experience standards or time played in this community, or are getting in purely due to nepotism, which is a bad thing and will lead to a further regression from prior administrative standards at best, or a dead or defunct community due to mass player abandonment in response to poor future administration at worst.
wól dir, spér, kriuze únde dorn,
wê dir, heiden, dáz ist dir zorn.

User avatar
Ikarrus
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:17 am
Location: Canada
Byond Username: Ikarrus
Github Username: Ikarrus

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Ikarrus » Thu May 28, 2015 4:17 pm #91313

> AustinRosello have been candidated.

Why

Why would you make another "ayy look at how much i don't give a shit 420 lmao" metacliquer a candidate for admin?
Former Dev/Headmin
Who is this guy?

rdght91
 
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:36 am
Byond Username: Roadhog1

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby rdght91 » Thu May 28, 2015 8:43 pm #91381

I've noticed admins have become ruder, passive-aggressive and far less professional than in the past. Two recent small examples: An admin write "groan" in small text after unlocking a thread they probably shouldn't have locked, another admin mocked a user for whining about their "gay spessmens" for filing a complaint. I also noticed when i recently discovered singlo that another admin was calling me things like a shitler and validhunter on singlo during another whole fiasco where it eventually became pretty clear I was trying to be reasonable and polite.

I had nearly the exact situation happen to me a few years back with a ban and the admin in the past after taking some advice immediately unbanned me and apologized.

I've also noticed a lot of admins tend to flip back and forth between "LOL JUST A GAME" if they upset someone but the next day ss13 is serious business. Further, the procedures for how admins handle complaints seems all over the place (no one knew who can override who), nobody knows if admins are allowed handle their own appeals, takes literally weeks and admins in my anecdotal experience seem to have a slightly more condescending attitude toward much of the playerbase.

It seemed like things have really taken a downturn.

User avatar
invisty
 
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 12:02 am
Byond Username: Invisty

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby invisty » Fri May 29, 2015 1:59 am #91455

Late night low-pop rounds (~20 players) can go for hours and almost always only ever feature traitors and changelings. I'd really appreciate if we could have admins pushing more buttons (or custom rounds/events) during these time slots.

As it stands, there ought be more game modes for low pop times. The game mode limits seem to be a consequence of a one-size-fits-all approach to available job positions and station size being designed for 40+.
Mime: Depresso

User avatar
TechnoAlchemist
 
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:39 am
Byond Username: TechnoAlchemist

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby TechnoAlchemist » Fri May 29, 2015 2:51 am #91464

Ikarrus wrote:> AustinRosello have been candidated.

Why

Why would you make another "ayy look at how much i don't give a shit 420 lmao" metacliquer a candidate for admin?


You should really take complaints about this sort of stuff up directly with the training admin, I've done the same in the past and talking to them about concerns can really help.

User avatar
Scones
 
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:46 am
Location: cooler than thou
Byond Username: Scones

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Scones » Fri May 29, 2015 4:01 am #91476

We have two absentee headmins. HG was been 'removed from his position' as headcoder, but is he still a headadmin? That situation is pretty unclear so a sticky'd post regarding it would be awesome, or even a post here.

Can we also publicly address the fact that one of our head administrators is directly more active on the Lifeweb Interzone and related community endeavors (The game itself, the side games they play, the plug.dj) than he is in-game or on the forums on /tg/station? I'm no longer an administrator so I can't say much regarding his activity in IRC, but it really does feel like Sticky is the only headmin here. Is STP just working more behind the scenes? Is he just putting in the bare minimum effort? I know he was the player elected headmin and so far, it seems all he's done is try to make a single massive change (public logs), get shut down, and become massively less active afterwards.

I think what's needed is a sticky'd news thread beyond 'admin staffing' to make people privy to exactly who is what and when power shifts, when important people are going on hiatus, etc.
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha

tuypo1
 
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:53 am
Location: the wardens office bitching about armory layouts
Byond Username: Tuypo1

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby tuypo1 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:21 pm #121421

pretty much the only thing i have to say against the admins is they seem to respond to messages to centcom a lot more then messages to the syndicate.

other then that i cant fault them at all

tuypo1
 
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:53 am
Location: the wardens office bitching about armory layouts
Byond Username: Tuypo1

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby tuypo1 » Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:50 am #121543

something the admins are really good at is waiting for a calm moment before bwoinking someone keep it up.

User avatar
Bluespace
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:04 pm
Location: UK
Byond Username: Bluespace

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Bluespace » Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:06 pm #121552

I'd probably say the admin team is at the best it's been in a long while. I've interacted with multiple admins and only come off with positive experiences.
I play Boris Pepper.
Image

User avatar
Atlanta-Ned
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:11 pm
Byond Username: Atlanta-ned

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Atlanta-Ned » Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:17 pm #121823

Bluespace wrote:I'd probably say the admin team is at the best it's been in a long while. I've interacted with multiple admins and only come off with positive experiences.


Seconding this. I have yet to have a negative experience with anyone.
Feedback pls (Don't bother though, because I am perfect)
### ListVarEdit by Atlanta-ned: /datum/reagents reagent_list: Water=/obj/item/weapon/gun/energy/alien
IcePacks wrote:>all you have is a taser and the cold realization that you're a haphazard bandaid over a problem that may or may not exist, applied by someone who doesn't know or care enough about their job to do it properly

OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are

rdght91
 
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:36 am
Byond Username: Roadhog1

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby rdght91 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:55 pm #134315

Even though a bad decision is made here and there, admins on this server do a better job of addressing it and are as a whole faaaar better than any online community I've ever seen.

CPTANT
 
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
Byond Username: CPTANT

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby CPTANT » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:07 pm #153183

I would like to say that the rate at which ban appeals/requests and admin complaints are handled is pretty bad currently.

There are multiple fnr threads that literally took several weeks or even more than a month to handle.
Screemonster wrote:how the fuck are you supposed to RP with a grille

callanrockslol
 
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:47 pm
Byond Username: Callanrockslol

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby callanrockslol » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:24 am #153413

CPTANT wrote:I would like to say that the rate at which ban appeals/requests and admin complaints are handled is pretty bad currently.

There are multiple fnr threads that literally took several weeks or even more than a month to handle.


Remember that mystical time where we had a head of bans and shit got done? That was good times.
The most excessive signature on /tg/station13.

Still not even at the limit after 8 fucking years.

Spoiler:
Urist Boatmurdered [Security] asks, "Why does Zol have a captain-level ID?"
Zol Interbottom [Security] says, "because"

Sergie Borris lives on in our hearts

Zaros (No id) [145.9] says, "WITH MY SUPER WIZARD POWERS I CAN TELL CALLAN IS MAD."

Anderson Conagher wrote:Callan is sense.

Errorage wrote:When I see the win vista, win 7 and win 8 hourglass cursor, it makes me happy
Cause it's a circle spinning around
I smile and make circular motions with my finger to imiatate it

petethegoat wrote:slap a comment on it and call it a feature

MisterPerson wrote:>playing
Do you think this is a game?

Gun Hog wrote:Untested code baby

oranges wrote:for some reason all our hosts turn into bohemia software communities after they implode

Malkevin wrote:I was the only one that voted for you Callan.

Miggles wrote:>centration development
>trucking
ill believe it when snakes grow arms and strangle me with them



OOC: Aranclanos: that sounds like ooc in ooc related to ic to be ooc and confuse the ic
OOC: Dionysus24779: We're nearing a deep philosophical extistential level

Admin PM from-Jordie0608: 33-Jan-2552| Warned: Is a giraffe dork ~tony abbott

OOC: Saegrimr: That wasn't a call to pray right now callan jesus christ you're fast.

OOC: Eaglendia: Glad I got to see the rise, fall, rise, and fall of Zol

OOC: Armhulenn: CALLAN
OOC: Armhulenn: YOU MELTED MY FUCKING REVOLVER
OOC: Armhulenn: AND THEN
OOC: Armhulenn: GAVE ME MELTING MELONS
OOC: Armhulenn: GOD FUCKING BLESS YOU
OOC: Armhulenn: you know what's hilarious though
OOC: Armhulenn: I melted ANOTHER TRAITOR'S REVOLVER AFTER THAT

7/8/2016 never forget

Armhulen wrote:
John_Oxford wrote:>implying im not always right

all we're saying is that you're not crag son


bandit wrote:we already have a punishment for using our code for your game, it's called using our code for your game

The evil holoparasite user I can't believe its not DIO and his holoparasite I can't believe its not Skub have been defeated by the Spacedust Crusaders, but what has been taken from the station can never be returned.

OOC: TheGel: Literally a guy in a suit with a shuttle full of xenos. That's a doozy

Amnestik
 
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:06 am
Byond Username: Amnestik

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Amnestik » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:18 pm #153450

Probably the sanest, most levelheaded and approachable administration /tg/ has had yet. Apart from a few unfortunate outliers like Saegrimr, Niknak and HG.

User avatar
Saegrimr
 
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
Byond Username: Saegrimr

Re: Administration General Feedback

Postby Saegrimr » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:57 pm #153453

Ah yes the old "I got called out for being a shit with all my ckeys, he's the worst admin ever" routine.
If you have a specific problem come at me bro, but don't even bother trying to pull the grudge card.
tedward1337 wrote:Sae is like the racist grandad who everyone laughs at for being racist, but deep down we all know he's right.

Next

Return to Admin Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users