Antag Tokens in FNR

[onleavedontatme]

I've been handing out "antag tokens" to people who successfully appeal bad or mistaken bans in FNR, as an apology/compensation for the unfair ban (and having to post in the worst section of the forums).

The "token" is just a Note for the player because the system isn't real, so to redeem it they'll have to adminhelp and let the admins online know about its existence. Generally they'll be turned into a traitor upon redeeming it, but it depends on the round/mood of admins online.

Previously I've been letting the note get deleted upon redemption, but there is probably a better way to handle this in the interests of transparency/our obsession with log keeping. Maybe add REDEEMED next to it, so the format would be

-Antag Token: [reason given] -REDEEMED

I encourage other admins to message Sticky or I if they feel one is warranted, but I'd prefer they not give them out themselves.




Also, as ever, I'd like feedback on this, and ideas on whether the system should be expanded at all (I gave a player one today for volunteering to help me test the ban database).

I have no idea who came up with the phrase antag token, but credit to them for the general idea.

[Saegrimr]

If you're actually wanting to stick with this antag token system which we kind of abandoned not too long ago, I think just removing the note is enough. If there's no note there then no token.

[onleavedontatme]

If you're actually wanting to stick with this antag token system which we kind of abandoned not too long ago, I think just removing the note is enough. If there's no note there then no token.

I'd just like to be able to pretend to be keeping track of why they were handed out so it doesn't turn into admins doing it for players they like because something vague like "good roleplay"

[Falamazeer]

Ehhhh

It should be headmin only, with the state of events (Even excluding the perceived problems, just the controversy is enough)this will be argued heavily the first time anyone smells conspiracy, real or imagined, So "I encourage other admins to do it" is really not the best idea ever, even if you qualify it immediately after, that should be a less squishy statement.

Perhaps "I encourage other admins to ask headmins to grant tokens" would be more apt for what you're trying to do with this.

[oranges]

code it as an actual system and it will see more use

[Arete]

code it as an actual system and it will see more use

Do we want it to see more use? Ideally, this should only be used when someone fucks up.

[oranges]

Because it would be bad to reward people for good behavior or exemplary play?

[Falamazeer]

Because it would be bad to reward people for good behavior or exemplary play?

Because it would be bad for circlejerk, and brown nosing or the appearance thereof.

[oranges]

admins can already antag people, they can already do these things. I don't think making it easier is somehow going to cause a flood of circlejerking and brownnosing.

[Arete]

Because it would be bad to reward people for good behavior or exemplary play?

Because it would be bad to reward people with a limited, otherwise randomly-distributed resource. Antag rounds are a zero sum game, and we currently have an issue with antag play being generally much more fun than non-antag play. This sort of reward for one person being "exemplary" (by whatever measurement) punishes whoever else would otherwise have received it.

[oranges]

I didn't envisage them affecting the current antag rolls, more that they'd be added after the base rolls

[Stickymayhem]

Keep it headmin only. When all thirty active admins do something in moderation it ends up happening a hundred times a week.

[NikNakFlak]

A player told me they abused this because no one removed his note and he "redeemed" an antag token 3 times before It got removed.
We were also told a couple of months/years ago to discontinue ever giving these out. There's a thread in the sooper sekret admin forums about it.
Kor can do it but I probably wont.

[Jordie0608]

For reference, the thread mentioned.

[Steelpoint]

I think keeping a record of when people get and redeem antag tokens is a good way forward, perhaps a code solution might be a good solution.

[onleavedontatme]

For reference, the thread mentioned.

Thanks. I'll keep it to headmins only then, and only for OOC stuff. Probably FNR only.

Maybe reward players for reporting game breaking bugs instead of abusing them would be an okay use? I mean I don't like the idea of bribing people to not destroy the game or to help fix it but realistically it would probably increase bug reporting.

[Steelpoint]

It would be incentivising it more so than bribing.

[rdght91]

That'd be nice. Last time I reported a bug I just got told, "Okay thanks, now I'm going to ban you if you ever use it again." Kinda an improvement on that.

[NikNakFlak]

Probably because: 02-May-2015 | Used the Fluacid exploit. Warned. ~vekter [-]. You knew what you were doing. Don't try to paint everything your way.
The bug was also reported 2 months before this note and was known about even before that meaning again, you knew what you were doing.
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/8179
I don't mean to take this topic off topic but really, don't justify an argument with that.
Edit: Found an older one: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/6276

[TheNightingale]

Oh, that's a bug? Well, there goes my next malpractice MD idea...

[Tsaricide]

Oh, that's a bug? Well, there goes my next malpractice MD idea...

I don't think it's a bug anymore so don't worry.

[rdght91]

Probably because: 02-May-2015 | Used the Fluacid exploit. Warned. ~vekter [-]. You knew what you were doing. Don't try to paint everything your way.
The bug was also reported 2 months before this note and was known about even before that meaning again, you knew what you were doing.
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/8179
I don't mean to take this topic off topic but really, don't justify an argument with that.
Edit: Found an older one: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/issues/6276

I don't go through bug reports to find exploits. I don't know why vekter has some problem with me, and I had no idea it was against the rules at the time. I even showed him how I did it. Assuming bad faith is pretty shitty.

I'm just getting tired of this. Just because I had one controversial admin complaint that stirred up drama doesn't mean I'm anti-admin or looking to cause trouble. All I wanted was a reasonable resolution and it's not my fault the administration fought with each other over it. I think tg has some of the best administration of any online game. I don't have anything against any admins. I don't want to be labeled as "that guy" and I don't want to get pulled into the drama. But it seems most interactions I have with a few certain admins you guys claim to just know that anything I'm not supposed to be doing I'm doing intentionally.

[ThanatosRa]

I don't think this should be a system. Coming from a customer service call center background, this feels like a "Manager Credit" sort of thing. Rare and valuable. The silent majority could and would abuse it.