[Herricross]-Noobsky Boi-Check logs from round 178066

[NoobskyBoi]

BYOND account: Noobsky Boi
Character name: John McNamera
Ban type: Antagonist round removal on MRP
Ban length: 3 Days
Ban reason: You, or another user of this computer or connection (Noobsky Boi) is banned from playing here. The ban reason is: (MRP) as a non-antagonist chef, successfully defended themselves against a traitor and proceeded to gib them despite being told not to in ahelps. Generally once you've dealt with a traitor without any other immediate threats, you leave their fate to command/security if present. Please don't ignore what is being said in ahelps and to reread the rules once you return. This ban (BanID #58871) was applied by Herricross on 2022-02-08 22:55:48 during round ID 178066. The ban is for 3 days and expires on 2022-02-11 22:55:48 (server time).
Server you were playing on when banned: manual
Round ID in which ban was placed: 178066
Your side of the story: Even on MRP, the antag was several layers of valid, MRP standards still were applied. Mime attacked, in my department, with a weapon that can definitively be used as an excuse to kill them. Round removal was not protested by admin as claimed in ban reason, only rules 6 and 10, both of which were argued. Admin also was not ignored, as said gibbing occurred after a reply.
Anything else we should know: Banned on Goonstation twice for using lube defensively to slip pursuants (there is no water slip mechanic there, both bans were given with no appeal or deeper discussion)

[Harricross]

Hi, thanks for making this appeal.

Other admins may read the ahelp here: https://atlantaned.space/tgdb/ticket/178066/5

Logs can be found here: https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/man ... 178066.zip

I'll give you my answer now, this appeal is denied. If you wish to read further, I'll elaborate on why this is a three day ban instead of just a note.

Even on MRP, the antag was several layers of valid, MRP standards still were applied. Mime attacked, in my department, with a weapon that can definitively be used as an excuse to kill them.

Killing the traitor who entered your kitchen was fine since they did break the airlock leading into there with a gun, but putting them into the gibber and round removing them once that altercation was finished is not. This is not what we expect players to do on Manuel, especially since this was your first escalated interaction with them during that shift.

Following the chain of command, the Captain can issue executions and round removals (within reason). A chef does not have that authority when the station is significantly populated with security and command without any other immediate threats to prompt such a reaction by you.

Round removal was not protested by admin as claimed in ban reason, only rules 6 and 10, both of which were argued. Admin also was not ignored, as said gibbing occurred after a reply.

Code: Select all

[2022-02-08 22:43:14.757] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Harricross/(Mama Mavet)->Noobsky Boi/(John Greg): 6. Deal with the bad guys in proportion to their crime(s). 10. Stay in your lane. Don't take matters into your own hands after you've dealt with an antagonist, give them to security or command to deal with them after protecting yourself.

[2022-02-08 22:43:51.581] ATTACK: Noobsky Boi/(John Greg) has gibbed *no key*/(Madamoiselle) (NEWHP: -127)  (Kitchen Cold Room (154,141,4))

It's clear to me at this point that you were ignoring me as the ahelp states, "Don't take matters into your own hands AFTER you've dealt with an antagonist, give them to security or command to deal with them after protecting yourself."

The reason I upped your ban from a day to three is mainly because of your recent note/ban history in addition to ignoring what was being written to you over ahelps.

You've accumulated four notes and one ban so far in about a month (excluding the ban I've given you) and it's very likely the next note/ban you receive will be your last. Please make an effort to curb your behavior when interacting with people in general.

[NoobskyBoi]

The exact discourse was this:
22:41:51: Ticket Opened by-harricross: Hey there, are you aware of the MRP rules?
22:42:04: Reply from-noobskyboi: Which ones?
22:42:55: Reply from-noobskyboi: Heard bullets hitting door, opened to check, mime was there. They barged in, I took care of the threat.
22:43:13: Reply from-harricross: 6. Deal with the bad guys in proportion to their crime(s). 10. Stay in your lane. Don't take matters into your own hands after you've dealt with an antagonist, give them to security or command to deal with them after protecting yourself.
22:43:44: Reply from-noobskyboi: Rules of escalation, they had a gun.
22:44:07: Reply from-harricross: 10. Stay in your lane. You are not security and you just gibbed even after I told you not to.
22:45:54: Reply from-noobskyboi: Kitchen is my lane, precedent in other similar cases lead to same actions.
22:47:21: Reply from-harricross: On the other servers, perhaps. This is MRP though and we hold round removal to a higher standard. I'm going to apply a three day ban since you did it anyways and ignored me. Please take some time off to read the rules and you're very likely to catch a permaban next time considering your current number of recent notes/bans.
22:48:40: Client reconnected
22:50:33: Ticket Opened by-noobskyboi: Herricross you there? I crashed.
22:50:52: Reply from-harricross: Hi. I'll repaste it: On the other servers, perhaps. This is MRP though and we hold round removal to a higher standard. I'm going to apply a three day ban since you did it anyways and ignored me. Please take some time off to read the rules and you're very likely to catch a permaban next time considering your current number of recent notes/bans.
22:51:59: Reply from-noobskyboi: I still do not see what I did wrong? Even on MRP, if someone breaks into kitchen with a gun, firing shots, you can still retaliate.
22:53:16: Reply from-harricross: Retaliate, yes. Round remove, no. You leave that to security/command, they have the authority to make people stay out of the game. This would be different it were low/deadpop and there were no security/command presence.
22:54:49: Reply from-noobskyboi: One moment, appealing to forums.
22:55:15: Reply from-harricross: Alright, I'm going to drop the ban now. You can appeal on the forums if you'd like.
22:55:22: Harricross/(Mama Mavet) has created a temporary 3 days server ban for Noobsky Boi.
22:55:23: Resolved by Harricross
---- No futher messages ----
This ticket was generated by Statbus v.0.14.0 ```

If you read this, you were already ticketing me before the gibbing even occurred. Setting that fact aside, as you have already admitted that aside from the round removal, they were dealt with correctly, the main discussion comes down to whether round removal was a valid action. I would like headmin intervention here, as while you quote MRP's higher standard, I have never, as ticket submitter or as ticketee, seen any action taken on similar issues of this nature. As for the longer ban because of previous notes/singular ban, I feel that the ban length is irrelevant. I also think threatening permaban is a poor decision, as the notes/ban are for separate issues with behavior, which I corrected or used in ways deemed appropriate context. Permaban after 2 relatively minor offenses is, in my opinion, very, very harsh.

[Harricross]

The ticketing was made in response to the other chef saying:

Code: Select all

[2022-02-08 22:41:34.742] SAY: Crusaderthe1/(Eli Metzer) "we could turn them into meat" (Kitchen (151,136,4))

This was done as a preventative measure to stop the gibbing from happening. However, you still did it as I was addressing the other chef.

In regards to your notes/bans, there's a frequent pattern of grief and two out of five in a month were not minor offenses. Both of them involved shuttle bombings, one as a free golem and one that did not specify what you were in the note.

[NoobskyBoi]

If you bothered reading the grief notes for shuttle bombing, and, doing the proper admin investigation beyond requoting the fact I have notes, you will find that the shuttle bombing was intended for EOR, and was applied because the EOR screen was more than 5 seconds late. The second one I am assuming you are referring to was as a traitor and was the *only* time I intentionally did so before EOR. I know some of you admins feel obligated to uphold the spirit of MRP, but I feel this is a bit ridiculous. I feel we should put a hold on this conversation until a headmin arrives.

[NoobskyBoi]

The ban expiring shortly, I would like to request this be moved to admin complaints.

[RaveRadbury]

The ban expiring shortly, I would like to request this be moved to admin complaints.

You have to have a successful appeal before you can make an admin complaint, sorry.

[dragomagol]

You were quoted the rules which specifically tell you what you were allowed to do with the intruder once you had dealt with them, and chose to act against them after 40 seconds had passed. Please listen to admins next time when they show you the rules.

However, we find that Harricross' insinuation that your next infraction would net you a permanent ban was uncalled for.

Headmin Votes:
Dragomagol: Uphold
RaveRadbury: Uphold
NamelessFairy: Uphold