/tg/station P&P Night

[dezzmont]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Sure go ahead.

Just note that in instant messaging and IRC and junk I can get a little rambley.

Steam name is dezzmont.

[Vekter]

Standard Shadowrun please. Its more fun being a corporate terrorist.

I'm on Steam and Skype. Feel free to add me on either. I'm completely lost on 5e.

[dezzmont]

You ever play 4e? It is basically the same as 5e save for limits, heavy balance tweaks to gear, and the matrix re-work.

[Subtle]

Oh goodness, this is really taking off.
No worries at all about "stealing PF's thunder" or whatever. If more people want to play Shadowrun I'm damn glad someone can give it to them!

This thread might be becoming a poor place to hash out little details if we're talking about both games though. Perhaps we should diversify?
(Also to answer the 5E question; my burning hate of 4E has turned me off to it. Might give it another chance from what I'm reading though)

[dezzmont]

That is funny. I feel like 5e regressed too much to 3.5.

[ExplosiveCrate]

I have no idea which game we're talking about at this point

Also dezzmont could you add me on steam? Can't seem to find you as there's fifty other dezzmonts. Steam name is ExplosiveCrate.

[Vekter]

You ever play 4e? It is basically the same as 5e save for limits, heavy balance tweaks to gear, and the matrix re-work.

Haven't played much. I'll get us a steam chat up when I get home.

[dezzmont]

Added everyone.

SR has a pretty simple core system. Attribute+skill+quality bonuses from your PC (you will always know you have these) and bonuses from gear, 'ware, or powers.

What gets complicated is understanding what happens when you complete an action, what rolls are used with what, and what rolls you can make. But the cheat sheets massively simplify this by giving you the situation where you would want an action and what you roll in under half a page for the matrix, magic, and combat each.

[Timbrewolf]

This is complicated because both Shadowrun and D&D released 5th editions that were radically different from previous editions in the last year or so.

My two cents: 5th D&D is rad as hell. It's 3.5 depth with 4E's "let's make shit fun and interesting" approach. The class options are awesome. Just for starters you can be the classic kind of fighter who is big 'n beefy tank with raw power, a skillful martial fighter with lots of combat options, or a spellsword who uses magic to augment his offense and defense while still keeping it real in combat. Each class has at least two, usually three very different approaches like that. Want to be the classic martial arts monk? How about a ninja? How about a wuxing style sorcerer/monk hybrid? It's a lot of 4E flash and cool but it keeps it more down-to-earth and immersive by returning to the more organic systems of yore. It's not a board game anymore. No more squares.

It's p cool.

5th Shadowrun looks rad as hell but I haven't delved into it deeply enough yet. Shadowrun has always been a really limitless, free system but that means it's goddamn impossible to keep balanced unless the GM has heavy veto power. 5th ed reins some of that in to make sure everyone has something cool to do, cleans up decking even more, and does a lot better to try to ensure magic characters don't run wild while cyber characters get left in the dust.

[Incomptinence]

So we doing shadow run but what edition? Looking up char gen programs or guides here.

[ExplosiveCrate]

Fifth.

[Incomptinence]

Been throwing something together in this then: https://code.google.com/p/chummer5/.

Do we need to choose an American city to live in or something? I specified a fictional garbage dump.

[ExplosiveCrate]

Don't think Dezzmont mentioned any specific cities. Just leave it vague, you can always go back and replace [PLACEHOLDER CITY] with wherever the campaign is going to take place.

[Incomptinence]

I don't quite understand contacts but I set em up. Or if I need to buy an oxygen tank to go with my gas mask, is a gas mask a respirator on its own? Or what mods make my glasses AR or my microphone sub vocal.

[dezzmont]

Actually 'ware was nerfed in 5e extremely hard because it was just invalidating adepts as a concept entirely, who were buffed. It was bad enough that in universe even if you awakened as a magic 6 adept there was no reason to actually value that and it would make sense in character to destroy what is meant to be a special and super amazing gift by just maxing out on 'ware Spellcasting also got a minor buff in some areas, and a huge buff in combat spells which are still somewhat weaker than guns. Spirits got a huge nerf as they now no longer have their own edge pool, which was highly unbalanced. The matrix changes actually play a bit into the cyberware nerf, now to maximize performance you need to expose your parts to the matrix because of very shitty plot reasons in a very good mechanic.

Setting is 2075 Seattle. AKA default core setting.

Contacts are represented by picking a type of person (Beat cop, bartender, whatever) and assigning a loyalty number and a connections number. Connections equates to how big the favors they can do for you are and how much access to gear and information they have, where as loyalty determines your relationship. At gen you can't have any contact who's connections is above 6, or any contact with a loyalty and connections combined above 7.

Gas masks have a one hour air supply attached to it and replacements cost 40 nuyen. They are not respirators, instead they just grant you flat immunity. Both respirators and gas masks are a common house hold item in a similar way to an umbrella, but respirators are lower key.

By default glasses have AR. Each extra feature you add takes up capacity and adds to the entire package's availability. Microhpones are a sensor package option similar to glasses and are mainly used for spying rather than communicating. Sub vocal microphones are a seperate item located on page 493 and priced on 494.

[nsos]

[youtube]8GPGQoR6f6w[/youtube]

hey accept my friend request

[dezzmont]

Done.

[ExplosiveCrate]

Wasn't the limit of combined loyalty+connection 8?

[dezzmont]

Wasn't the limit of combined loyalty+connection 8?

Nope. It was 7. Technically the limit is 7 karma per contact in case you have an quality that changes the cost per point of loyalty or connections, which probably will be in run faster.

[Timbrewolf]

It'd be helpful if people could give a VERY BRIEF description of the archetype of the character they were building so I knew what to build around.

Not WELL MY GUY IS AN AWAKENED POLAR BEAR OWL SHAMAN WITH ALCOHOLISM

But "Shaman Spellcaster". "Street Samurai". "Hermetic Conjurer". etc.

I have a feeling I might have to resurrect someone Dezz is familiar with.

[ExplosiveCrate]

Infiltration Adept

...maybe. I dunno, not really feeling the character I'm making. Might fall back on an aspected shaman.

Or maybe a mystic shaman? aspected magicians kinda suck.

Edit: How did I go from"shaman" to "burnout"?

[dezzmont]

It'd be helpful if people could give a VERY BRIEF description of the archetype of the character they were building so I knew what to build around.

Not WELL MY GUY IS AN AWAKENED POLAR BEAR OWL SHAMAN WITH ALCOHOLISM

But "Shaman Spellcaster". "Street Samurai". "Hermetic Conjurer". etc.

I have a feeling I might have to resurrect someone Dezz is familiar with.

Let me guess. Grognard decker who is glad the kids are not hacking with comlinks anymore?

[Timbrewolf]

Magicians that get cyberware installed or take serious physical harm that causes a loss of magic attribute (not sure if that mechanic is still in 5e) start on the path to burning out.

Take a situation where someone with magic 6 gets some cyberware installed. Their magic drops to 5, and if they ever want to increase it again they're stuck paying the costs for Magic 7 to get Magic 6. Costs which get bigger and bigger as you go. The same guy gets injured badly, or decides to go under the knife again. Now you're stuck paying the costs to increase your magic skill as if it was 2 points higher? Hell no fuck that.

That's what the "path of the burnout" is. In character it's a sort of breaking point for a magician where they feel like they've lost their connection to the great mysteries of the astral world and they'll slowly lose all their powers over time. Out of character it's the point where a player realizes the investment they have to make to keep increasing their magic skill isn't worth it.

Again, losing magic attribute as a magic character fucking sucks ass simply because you start getting screwed on costs when you go to raise that attribute again in the future. The attribute doesn't just roll back down to 5 from 6. It's still technically a 6, but you can only use it as a 5. And when you want to increase it, you have to pay to make it 7 but only get to use it at a 6.

It blooooooooooooooooooooooooooows.

It'd be helpful if people could give a VERY BRIEF description of the archetype of the character they were building so I knew what to build around.

Not WELL MY GUY IS AN AWAKENED POLAR BEAR OWL SHAMAN WITH ALCOHOLISM

But "Shaman Spellcaster". "Street Samurai". "Hermetic Conjurer". etc.

I have a feeling I might have to resurrect someone Dezz is familiar with.

Let me guess. Grognard decker who is glad the kids are not hacking with comlinks anymore?

Aww, you forgot about Singapore already?

[dezzmont]

Actually it costs the same to raise the lowered attributes if you raise the max. The reason it sucks so hard to get it lowered is that it isn't just the stat being lowered, it is the max getting lowered. If you are magic 5 naturally getting to 6 costs the same as getting to it as a burn out. The issue is that a burnout CAN'T raise his magic above his essence without initiation, which is expensive. It means that the burn out needs to run in place. Has been that way from 4th too.

The downsides to losing a point of magic from 4 or 6 are actually deliberately not that big a deal. In fact in universe many mages decide to get cybereyes because a loss of some raw power doesn't really matter in their daily lives where as the convenience of having cybereyes does. But then maybe they realize some cerebral boosters would actually make their magic overall stronger... and hey, you know while they are at it they can probably use wired to get more done in a fight.

The distinction between burn out and augmented mage is a metaphysical one, the point where a mage starts trading their abilities for quick and easy power as an addiction or panic reflex rather than a choice. but for adepts and mystic adepts they technically qualify to walk the path of a burnout upon losing 2 magic, and leave it if they manage to raise their magic twice without getting more implants. Disturbingly, or perhaps luckily, burnout adepts get better at integrating cyberware into their body without harming their magic as much and end up being quite powerful. Mages have less reason to become full burn outs and are more likely to lightly augment just because it makes sense.

And I was referencing Singapore. You were thinking about bringing back Radar.

[Timbrewolf]

And I was referencing Singapore. You were thinking about bringing back Radar.

Radar in 2075 is younger than I am IRL. The old grognard you might be thinking of is finally actually dead by now or so completely insane as to not be a threat to anyone but himself.

[THE MIGHTY GALVATRON]

Oh man, PnP nights!? I'd be all in if I didn't have this fear of getting my hopes up and find myself heartbroken again when life steals away the player base.

[XSI]

Last time I tried to run something for everyone the forums exploded and everyone died.
Also nobody could give me finished characters on time.

You guys were gonna get to be Knights Errant Security Concepts officers patrolling the streets of Seattle in 2072, and only like two people finished their job applications.

You wound me, /tg/station.

Shit, I missed that?
That's what I get for not checking the forums that often

I'd sign up for that if you want to retry
The IRC shadowrun thing is, sadly, dead.

>Replying to page 1 of 4
I'm probably already late

Poke me on steam or something sometime for it if you want to see if stuff can happen with me involved
Though with a game I'm already running I may not be able to get the timeslots available to play in this

[ExplosiveCrate]

Not really, don't think a lot of people have even made their characters yet.

[Timbrewolf]

Well someone ELSE should make the damn decker for once.

I'm rolling up a badass motherfucking neon and chrome street samurai. Time to get FABULOUS in this motherfucker.

[Incomptinence]

Dezzmont has offered me advice on my build about three times now. I just uploaded the chummer 5 save on file dropper and pmed him the link.
Anyone interested and new to this game like me should probably do similar.

Made an infiltrator adept elf (ex)hobo.

[Timbrewolf]

To understand character creation you have to understand that there are two flavors of cyberpunk:

There's the gritty, polluted, dystopian side of things that implies megacorp oppression, urban squalor, etc. It's kinda the "cyber" half of things. It's easy to see this side of the game and play here. There's a lot of cool action and stuff to be had here. The Matrix movies, Bladerunner, Robocop, and more are all this kind of "cyberpunk". Sometimes it gets called "Mirrorshades" or "Black Trenchcoat".

Then there's the bright neon lights and cultural mish-mash of the future side of things. The cries for revolution and cultural rebellion brought on by the circumstances of the former half of the game. This is where you get the "punk" in cyberpunk. The selfishness of technological excesses, wealth, glitz and glam. This is where you get things like "Tank Girl", "Johnny Mnemonic", "Snow Crash", "Transmetropolitan", "Akira", and others. This is where all the oppression that's been bottled up explodes in ways, the cracks in the pavement where small flowers and mosses push through. It's a bit harder to play here because it's very easy to go overboard and be silly. I knew this kind of game as "Neon Light" but dezzmont introduced me to the term "Pink Mohawk" and I think it's just as appropriate.

While a character going hard on the former might end up falling on their face because they turn out to be some super edgy Batman wannabe (megacorps killed my parents now I must kill the megacorps) it's even easier for someone trying to nail the second to end up just being a goofy cartoon character. It's even harder for the two kinds of concepts to co-exist in the same time and place and not constantly make eachother look really stupid. Imagine your badass lineup of trenchcoat wearing professional criminals, and then you have "Tall Paul" the punk rock troll who swings a combat axe around that he has attached guitar strings and pickups to.

My advice, as someone who has been playing Shadowrun for 17 years is: If you can, while creating your characters, try to incorporate a little bit of both, but not too much of either. Think about your clothes and your gear and your personalities. Imagine a moment where your character has to be serious about something, and what they would wear. Then try to picture them having a night off enjoying some of the money they've earned and how they would do that. Nobody should be a hard-ass John Wick type murder machine allday errday(well, some characters should be but there are mental flaws to go with that) nor should anyone be the comedy relief wacky ultra violence 24/7


Though of course the Golden rule is that when it comes to roleplaying there are no hard rules and if the whole group wants to roleplay as the cast of Ghost in the Shell then you're going to have a very serious game, and that's cool. And likewise, if everyone wants to play as a member of the Halloween'ers, then yeah you're going to be using up a lot of green hair dye, spray paint, and drugs.

tl;dr keep in mind that when it comes to Shadowrun two distinct flavors of the game exist. One is a cold professional type of game, and one is an outlandish and very animated and violent kind of fun. They're both good, but be prepared to have aspects of both worlds popping up if your GM wants to represent the full spectrum of sights and sounds and life in 2075.

[dezzmont]

I hate the black trenchcoat/mirrorshades/pink mohawk dynamic.

In some ways it is a really useful shorthand, but people get so caught up in it sometimes. It isn't a distinct style so much as two very vague ideas about the philosophy of the game. It gets worse when people bring Tall Pauls into it, because those tend to be parodies of the idea of pink trench coat. I mean Akira is definitely a setting where Tall Paul wouldn't be happy yet is classified as Pink Mohawk because of its concept of anti-authoritarian rebellion mixed with weirdo supernatural elements despite the fact that almost all cyberpunk is anti-authoritarian with weird over the top elements.

It gets even worse when people start to claim that iconic parts of the shadowrun lore are "Silly Pink Mohawk." Like talking about mages as if they are completely insane to factor into the game even though they probably have more place in the setting than the matrix, or claiming that you absolutely must do full stealth no casualties to not get arrested by every FBI officer in the UCAS. We have a lot of crunch and fluff on why this doesn't happen, the TLDR is that the SIN system is so insanely bloated that even DNA isn't a smoking gun anymore.

Then you get people who actually think they should be able to make absolutely stupid concepts that don't make any sense and are really a joke. Just because shadowrun has a lot of weird shit going on doesn't mean people lost all rationality. A shaman decked out in native american tribal gear may seem silly to you but actually has some gravitas in the setting. Someone swinging around a katana against gun wielding cops likewise is actually playing into the history of the setting. Someone who regularly uses a guitar battle axe to kill people then rock out while blowing stuff up is just a run of the mill psychopath. And then there are people that forget that the world of shadowrun is frankly a horrific place to live if you pay attention. There are too many examples to count of my other group suddenly realizing horrific implications of fluff they never thought about.

The best part of shadowrun is this bizarre duality of "Wow this is fucking ridiculous" and "Yeah but this ridiculous shit has consequences." Especially when it causes a mix on the team. It shows up in a lot of fluff and in the novels that many runners from an ex-military background don't get along well with runner culture at first because of the anti-authoritarian sentiment and the fact almost every mage that runs runs because they are a social outlier, but at the same time they are sought after despite their 'bad attitude' because operator skills are in demand.

An operator operating operationally in shadowrun isn't someone who discounts all the silly shit and focuses on smart badass gunplay. They are someone who understands when to set up a sniper in position to shoot someone silently and fade away and when to have your asshole norse trickster mage set up 15 castings of poltergeist across an entire building so the troll can knock down a wall with his body to extract a target in the chaos. The Major in GITS didn't look at the Tachoma units and go "They are too silly, get them the fuck out of here" despite the fact their personalities didn't mesh with her unit at all. She used them and their personalities played off the team.

My advice? Don't make a full out parody character. Want to have a weird tradition? Go ahead, a Zoroastrian paladin makes a good runner. Want to have a funky attitude? Great! Check out the Attitude! sourcebook. Find more joy in being a supercommando who could clear a building using sensors and tactics? Just remember that the freaky dude with a katana probably is better at killing people than you and put that bit of information into your tactical toolbox and go nuts. I really don't care what you bring as long as you clearly give a shit about what is going to happen to this person you made.

Some of the gen guidelines do tie into what An0n3 said about trying to play to a mix. Bringing a human element to the character is really important and I did see some people PMing me with arbitrarily silly aspects of their character I vetoed. Make a real person with reasons to do what they do. From a mechanical perspective you ultimately only need 3 things to fit into any sort of campaign: The ability to go loud and do well in a fight in some way, the ability to hit 6 on a sneaking dicepool, and the ability to hit 6 on an etiquette dicepool. Fighting lets you roll with the team once shit starts blowing up. Sneaking 6 is enough to bypass wageslaves and allows you to not wait in the car if the team is running infiltration. And etiquette 6 is enough for you to contribute meaningfully with your own contacts as well as allowing you to integrate yourself into a scene that involves investigation, cons, or social conflict.

One other thing: I did say I would help people gen but so far 2 people have literally messaged me on steam asking me what this was when they saw the priority assignment table in gen. There is a difference between me helping you in gen and you not even trying to get past the first two chapters. I highly recommend reading the character gen chapter and paying extra attention to the example creation process. Hell, even message me while you read it, or ask me what priorities I think will be good for a character, but don't clearly put no effort in to figure out even the most basic things for yourself. I understand you probably won't instantly grok it, but it helps me help you if you even skim it totally confused.

Finally: First character has been approved!

Scabo! An an invisible way practitioner who is scary good at watching from the shadows, both physically and astrally. Uses bows and knifes with lethal efficiency.

[XSI]

Well, for characters, I'm thinking I'll be the armourer and maybe some vehicle stuff/drone stuff
Or I could just be medic, it helps to keep the team from getting put in the ground
Edit: Or I could be old man Wong. Kree liked that one. Too much to choose from

You'd want someone to take care of your armour, fix up the scratches, and upgrade the thing without going "Armour? What armour? I didn't get any armour" when you give your shiny stuff to an NPC to fix.

But I'd rather not sign up for sure until I know the times. I don't want to make a character, have people think I'll be there and build around mine to make sure there's no huge overlaps...And then find out the time slots for this are ending up the same time slots as the game I'm already running, thus excluding me(And leaving a gaping hole in group tactics)

Aside from that, I may need some time to adjust from 4th edition to 5th

[dezzmont]

I was thinking Tuesday or Thursday nights.

[XSI]

Oh, well that's perfect for me then. I'll start on chargen right away.

Though I'll probably re-use and slightly re-do an old character that never did see much action

Edit: Just checked
16 people interested according to the poll

We can probably get 3-5 game groups out of that, just need people to run stuff

[Incomptinence]

I can do Thursday nights up until the week of Christmas. Tuesday night is probably Wednesday morning for me so a no go there unless it makes 5 am gmt +10. Which I have been waking up at anyway, get a new bed wake up at the crack of dawn sometimes I just don't understand my sleeping mind.

Edit: Tuesday possibility also depends on session length.

[nsos]

i can probably do tuesday nights better than thursdays

[dezzmont]

Anyone who has locked down their overall concept should post it, even if their character isn't done.

[Akkryls]

I'll get properly started on char gen tomorrow. Work has been kicking my ass this week.
What times are we thinking for playing? Running on GMT here.

[dezzmont]

How does Tuesday sound? 6 PM EST? Earlier? Later?

[ExplosiveCrate]

I'd be able to make it at 7 PM EST. Have to be at uni until 6, then the half hour drive home.

[Akkryls]

How does Tuesday sound? 6 PM EST? Earlier? Later?

6pm probably gives me about two hours of play time. Earlier would be better for me but I'm well aware my timezone is in the minority with trying to suit everyone. I can probably make it work though.

[nsos]

is it bad that my first concept for a character is just peter capaldi as malcolm tucker from in the loop

[ExplosiveCrate]

Making a support mage/face who follows the christian theurgy and summons horrible angelic spirits. Is also slightly a hobo.

[Vekter]

Well, for characters, I'm thinking I'll be the armourer and maybe some vehicle stuff/drone stuff
Or I could just be medic, it helps to keep the team from getting put in the ground
Edit: Or I could be old man Wong. Kree liked that one. Too much to choose from

I was kinda wanting to be our car/guns guy, but you've probably got more experience than I do in the matter.

I wanted to play my Southern gentleman gangster character. Haven't fleshed him all the way out just yet but I'm workin' on reading the sourcebooks right now.

ALSO considering doing a paladin character who speaks in olde English. If you've ever played UT3, think Bishop. For some reason I find it hilarious to have this stuck-up JUSTICE WILL BE SERVED slightly-insane type in the Shadowrun universe. I dunno, I'll decide on it.

How does Tuesday sound? 6 PM EST? Earlier? Later?

Tuesdays usually work well for me, but worst-case I'd be getting off work at about 10 pm. So fyi I might have to miss a session every so often.

What is face?

A bard?

"Party face" is someone who's the party's social player. In Shadowrun, it'd be whoever gears themselves towards dealing with contacts, Mr. Johnson and the like. tl;dr usually the Bard in D&D.

[dezzmont]

Faces are conmen.

Everyone should be able to diplomacy their way out of a paper bag, but Faces tend to take skills other than etiquette that fulfill multiple roles, split between social infiltration and party support.

Con, Impersonation, and Disguise allow the face to infiltrate and compromise a facility and manipulate its personnel.

Negotiation gets the team better access to equipment both by allowing the face to net more cash from the Johnson and by allowing them to buy black market gear both in the sense of being able to get harder to find stuff and paying less of a mark up to get it.

Leadership can sometimes help infiltration but also is the generic aid another roll. Faces are unique in that they can aid another on any type of roll in the game at any time. This also helps with small unit combat rolls to enact combat maneuvers.

And of course like any role faces get subskills: Pistols is a good way to salvage a failed con roll, as someone would be very motivated to reconsider they believe you with a revolver pointed in their face. Palming lets them steal ID badges and such off desks. First aid plays into their role as combat cheerleader.

Charisma based casters can make good faces, especially if they sustain or use alchemy to cast improve charisma on themselves. Adepts are also really strong faces and can get unique functionality added to their skills, such as using leadership to get someone to do something for you for no reason.

Rotwood is going to be playing as a pilot rigger type. He has very little in the way of technical skills and focuses exclusively on using air vehicles in close air support. He can footslog well too with insane reflexes, drones, and automatics. He definitely isn't the man with the van, so there is a room for a more traditional rigger. Just to give you an idea of how weird this guy is, he will probably spend a lot of time in the run covering you in a security grade attack chopper.

[XSI]

I was kinda wanting to be our car/guns guy, but you've probably got more experience than I do in the matter.

That's an argument in favour of letting you be the car and guns guy in my opinion, it's pretty great to go for something new and I have so many different character concepts still laying around unused.
I'll structure my character around what the others have, because lets face it. I have character concepts ready for just about any role

[dezzmont]

Simply being a good driver is not a role, just so you are aware. Having a van is super useful and being able to drive in an escape on your personal motorcycle to defend the team car is too, but most good drivers are infiltrators, samurai, or riggers in their 'day job.'

If you want to grab a lot of technical skills like forgery, demolitions, and engineering on top you are almost certainly The Man In the Van and going full rigger, running sensors and scouting drones to support your team when quiet and tossing combat drones in when loud.

Just a heads up on drones as well, they are not like SS13 borgs. The things are fragile, and their primary purpose is to allow the rigger to 'teleport.' Riggers can jump into a drone to use their skill pools boosted by a control rig implant at initiative 4d6+intuition and data processing, or can use a high first aid skill on someone from a first aid kit in their pocket to revive them. They can even take over a smart gun platform that their infiltrator placed down somewhere. Less super robot wars with invincible death machines and more about always being with everyone on the team.

[XSI]

Drone stuff

Just imagine a pAI with a gun strapped to it and a multitool on the other side, and you control that remotely

[dezzmont]

Drone stuff

Just imagine a pAI with a gun strapped to it and a multitool on the other side, and you control that remotely

Someone needs to code that.

[Incomptinence]

Yeah can't do that Tuesday time slot I will be working at that time.