another shitty sec nerf merge peanut

[Blase]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/64280


Holy shit why does it keep happening, this is another major sec nerf over the course of 2 years. I don't think I've seen a substantial sec buff in the entire time I've been lurking on the GitHub. Not only that, but its a maintainer who wrote the damn hackmd document merging with all haste. Its painful to see people with bad ideas force their wishes onto the codebase, charging ahead without any input from anyone who has concerns. Writing a hackmd document does not mean your idea is good. It does not mean you are good at designing fixes, or balancing. It means you know how to use a word editor and make images.

Its not just one maintainer pushing for this. Oranges has had a hateboner for security for years. I don't know why. I don't think anyone knows why. I have no idea if he has ever played security at all. There isn't shit that can be done either. Rebuffing sec will get shot down. Perhaps even nerfing antagonists will get shot down. There is no state in which nerfing one faction will not make its opponents stronger in comparison, and sec has been nerfed into the ground. This does not require a degree in game design to understand. Oranges if you read this you should play security for a month. It would give you perspective that I assume you could benefit from.

edit: forgot to point to the plant

[Farquaar]

Peanuts need a link to the thing you’re peanutting

[Super Aggro Crag]

"why are sec guys robbing everyone and buying 38s now"

[Kendrickorium]

auto rifles are barely ever ordered

the thermal pistols are FUCKING AWESOME

should be interesting to see how effective they are vs blobs

[Bawhoppennn]

I swear I'm gonna add derringers all I'm missing is a good sprite

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I'm still a little confused why they kept bringing up that they didn't like "the illusion of choice" autorifles made by "being better than everything else" and then proceed to remove them, and replace them with something else. Now we don't have an illusion of choice, but we still don't actually have a choice anyway.

[NoxVS]

One massive problem is how ballistics worked with wounds. They are EXTREMELY good against people without connection to station resources. You would get shot like twice and all of the sudden you are rapidly dying of blood loss. If you are being hunted by security, that isn't an issue you can really fix save for carrying a fuckton of bandages around with you.

[Rageguy505]

I swear I'm gonna add derringers all I'm missing is a good sprite

take the TGMC derringers

[Super Aggro Crag]

auto rifles are barely ever ordered

the thermal pistols are FUCKING AWESOME

should be interesting to see how effective they are vs blobs

How are they awesome? Please fucking explain how an 8 shot pistol that can't even down an antag is good. Do you just want security to be steamrolled without recourse every round? I'm legit curious. Do you just like the spritework?

[bastardblaster]

I think they're pretty cool looking

[Kendrickorium]

auto rifles are barely ever ordered

the thermal pistols are FUCKING AWESOME

should be interesting to see how effective they are vs blobs

How are they awesome? Please fucking explain how an 8 shot pistol that can't even down an antag is good. Do you just want security to be steamrolled without recourse every round? I'm legit curious. Do you just like the spritework?

me and philip were messing around with them on sybil yesterday and he decapitated me with the cryo gun in like 5 or 6 shots

the sprite work for the guns are also very pretty

[massa]

I complain rather routinely about sec being a bit op and honestly I've never complained about an autorifle. What a non-issue. They looked good, fit the setting. Also, the guns are totally fine. Good and usable. Super limited ammo tho.

Now what do we get, color coded cowboy blasters? Why? Why can't we just, I dunno, have both? Too much shit is just getting randomly deleted.

[Super Aggro Crag]

auto rifles are barely ever ordered

the thermal pistols are FUCKING AWESOME

should be interesting to see how effective they are vs blobs

How are they awesome? Please fucking explain how an 8 shot pistol that can't even down an antag is good. Do you just want security to be steamrolled without recourse every round? I'm legit curious. Do you just like the spritework?

me and philip were messing around with them on sybil yesterday and he decapitated me with the cryo gun in like 5 or 6 shots

the sprite work for the guns are also very pretty

I magdumped a cryo pistol into an antag point black hit every round and they walked off calmly with only moderate wounds. Something is fucky.

[Kendrickorium]

maybe it was updated sometime in between?

just the sound those things make should imply a lot of power behind them

i'll play with it more later

[Bawhoppennn]

I swear I'm gonna add derringers all I'm missing is a good sprite

take the TGMC derringers

Good thinking, I may have to tweak it for the art style.

[Super Aggro Crag]

every spaceman should start with a derringer in their internals box

[Bawhoppennn]

every spaceman should start with a derringer in their internals box

Now this is what I like to hear

[Super Aggro Crag]

every spaceman should start with a derringer in their internals box

Now this is what I like to hear

an armed society is a fun society

[oranges]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/64280


Holy shit why does it keep happening, this is another major sec nerf over the course of 2 years. I don't think I've seen a substantial sec buff in the entire time I've been lurking on the GitHub. Not only that, but its a maintainer who wrote the damn hackmd document merging with all haste. Its painful to see people with bad ideas force their wishes onto the codebase, charging ahead without any input from anyone who has concerns. Writing a hackmd document does not mean your idea is good. It does not mean you are good at designing fixes, or balancing. It means you know how to use a word editor and make images.

Its not just one maintainer pushing for this. Oranges has had a hateboner for security for years. I don't know why. I don't think anyone knows why. I have no idea if he has ever played security at all. There isn't shit that can be done either. Rebuffing sec will get shot down. Perhaps even nerfing antagonists will get shot down. There is no state in which nerfing one faction will not make its opponents stronger in comparison, and sec has been nerfed into the ground. This does not require a degree in game design to understand. Oranges if you read this you should play security for a month. It would give you perspective that I assume you could benefit from.

edit: forgot to point to the plant

he can't keep getting away with it

[YBS]

EMP Proof

Neat

[toemas]

i like them

[massa]

yeah they're pretty cool honestly i dunno why we couldn't have 550s and these though?

i also think they could aesthetically mesh better with the setting but they already do look pretty sharp so this isn't soullessposting

[Jonathan Gupta]

I shot the rd with the cyro gun to activate his stealth armor(And I accidently shot a hole through his head) So i think its pretty good.

[Valorium]

every spaceman should start with a derringer in their internals box

New station trait when

[BONERMASTER]

I magdumped a cryo pistol into an antag point black hit every round and they walked off calmly with only moderate wounds. Something is fucky.

They work a bit differentely.

You can toggle these to be either cryo or thermal. The trick to them is, that you use your initial shots to freeze your opponent, then switch to thermal, which blows up their health. In the testing I partook in, about 4 shots with the freezing mode, and one thermal shot was enough to put an unarmored dude well into critical condition.

As far as mathematically efficency goes, they got some things going for them, sure, I don't really care about that.
I personally will always be in love with ballistics. They look violent, they feel violent, they sound violent. These energy guns, to each their own, but to me these feel like safespace waterguns, these are just not engaging me at all.
Honestly, redesign them to be rifles, change the projectile to be an instant beam-attack and put more bite into the sound, then I'd be more on board with them.


With beaming regards
-BONERMASTER

[Kendrickorium]

I don't like the idea of a beam attack, and the BOOM sound they made when i fired them felt pretty solid

i like the idea of a rifle, as long as it looks a lot different from the temperature gun in the armory, but the art was done really well for the handguns so eh

[Super Aggro Crag]

I magdumped a cryo pistol into an antag point black hit every round and they walked off calmly with only moderate wounds. Something is fucky.

They work a bit differentely.

You can toggle these to be either cryo or thermal. The trick to them is, that you use your initial shots to freeze your opponent, then switch to thermal, which blows up their health. In the testing I partook in, about 4 shots with the freezing mode, and one thermal shot was enough to put an unarmored dude well into critical condition.

As far as mathematically efficency goes, they got some things going for them, sure, I don't really care about that.
I personally will always be in love with ballistics. They look violent, they feel violent, they sound violent. These energy guns, to each their own, but to me these feel like safespace waterguns, these are just not engaging me at all.
Honestly, redesign them to be rifles, change the projectile to be an instant beam-attack and put more bite into the sound, then I'd be more on board with them.


With beaming regards
-BONERMASTER

they changed it so you cant swap it.

[Cobby]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/64280


Holy shit why does it keep happening, this is another major sec nerf over the course of 2 years. I don't think I've seen a substantial sec buff in the entire time I've been lurking on the GitHub. Not only that, but its a maintainer who wrote the damn hackmd document merging with all haste. Its painful to see people with bad ideas force their wishes onto the codebase, charging ahead without any input from anyone who has concerns. Writing a hackmd document does not mean your idea is good. It does not mean you are good at designing fixes, or balancing. It means you know how to use a word editor and make images.

Its not just one maintainer pushing for this. Oranges has had a hateboner for security for years. I don't know why. I don't think anyone knows why. I have no idea if he has ever played security at all. There isn't shit that can be done either. Rebuffing sec will get shot down. Perhaps even nerfing antagonists will get shot down. There is no state in which nerfing one faction will not make its opponents stronger in comparison, and sec has been nerfed into the ground. This does not require a degree in game design to understand. Oranges if you read this you should play security for a month. It would give you perspective that I assume you could benefit from.

edit: forgot to point to the plant

fuck you btw

i did not write the document (you can literally see who edited it and commented on it, me being the commentator) and i did not merge them with haste unless you consider 18 days haste retard.

im ok with not liking the feature but where I draw the line is malice intent which I have only seen twice in all my years of ss13 and one of them was against me. Dont care for the insults either but thats why youre here and not in the coding section.

[NecromancerAnne]

For all the kneejerk I've been seeing, I've been getting a lot of good feedback as well. Some critical and some in agreement with the change.

I'm definitely considering how to meet somewhere in the middle with whatever comes next who really enjoyed the feedback of the firearms they were using. I getcha, I really do.

There is a core difference between being deaf to feedback and simply pushing an argument for why I thought it was a good change. I've been receptive, addressed feedback, but I've not been reasonably persuaded against this direction. If anything, I'm more convinced the more I've seen what the old WT could do in practice now that I have given it scrutiny, and the less people were able to make a good assessment for what the role the weapon fulfilled beyond being a magdumper.

I'm aware armor is in a weird spot and maybe before going much further, it would be good to work out what the best direction for that would be.

[Itseasytosee2me]

For all the kneejerk I've been seeing, I've been getting a lot of good feedback as well. Some critical and some in agreement with the change.

I'm definitely considering how to meet somewhere in the middle with whatever comes next who really enjoyed the feedback of the firearms they were using. I getcha, I really do.

There is a core difference between being deaf to feedback and simply pushing an argument for why I thought it was a good change. I've been receptive, addressed feedback, but I've not been reasonably persuaded against this direction. If anything, I'm more convinced the more I've seen what the old WT could do in practice now that I have given it scrutiny, and the less people were able to make a good assessment for what the role the weapon fulfilled beyond being a magdumper.

I'm aware armor is in a weird spot and maybe before going much further, it would be good to work out what the best direction for that would be.

You pretty much addressed everything I didn't like and commented about on the PR. So props to you.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

For all the kneejerk I've been seeing, I've been getting a lot of good feedback as well. Some critical and some in agreement with the change.

I'm definitely considering how to meet somewhere in the middle with whatever comes next who really enjoyed the feedback of the firearms they were using. I getcha, I really do.

There is a core difference between being deaf to feedback and simply pushing an argument for why I thought it was a good change. I've been receptive, addressed feedback, but I've not been reasonably persuaded against this direction. If anything, I'm more convinced the more I've seen what the old WT could do in practice now that I have given it scrutiny, and the less people were able to make a good assessment for what the role the weapon fulfilled beyond being a magdumper.

I'm aware armor is in a weird spot and maybe before going much further, it would be good to work out what the best direction for that would be.

Initially I was pretty against it. I still kinda am, I'd like to have WTs AND these, to both fill different niches, but you DID listen to a lot of feedback and generally address things well enough that it showed you were actually trying to do something good.