lean removal pr

BlueMemesauce · Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:43 pm

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/65464

Goof alternative: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/65465

Farquaar · Post by **Farquaar** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:48 pm #633452

Imagine getting this tilted over a cough syrup drink

massa · Post by **massa** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:08 pm #633454

goof do something better with your time than policing harmless fun speech and social interactions in general, this shit pathetic

fucking coders literally cannot tolerate seeing social interactions. it's actually so weird. sorry high school sucked i guess? not anyone else's problem though, definitely not the game's

sinfulbliss · Post by **sinfulbliss** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 5:53 pm #633464

the drink is called lean. it's the name of the drink. kinda like how a rum and coke with lime is called a cuba libre.
changing the code in an attempt to counter players getting excited about something is dumb, it'll be over in like 2 weeks anyway

BlevRuz · Post by **BlevRuz** » Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:16 pm #633475

i could go for some Funky Cold Purple Drank™ right about now

Super Aggro Crag · Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:18 pm

"NOOO DUDE THEY'RE MEMING ABOUT DRUG CULTURE IT'S ANNOYING ME!!!!"

"HAHAHAHA RAINBOW WEEEEEEEED BRO DUDE WEEEEEED IM SO HIGH RIGHT NOW DUUUUUUUUDE"

you guys are fucking lame, oranges is doing a good job by telling you to stfu

datorangebottle · Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:18 pm you guys are fucking lame, oranges is doing a good job by telling you to stfu

the problem isn't drug culture, idgaf what it is.
if people were running around yelling "I LOVE PEPPERS! PEPPERS! I LOVE PEPPERS!" constantly like it's their entire personality i'd have the same issue with it.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

On the other hand adding actual cannabis when we already had space weed was super cringe

Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:13 pm

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:07 pm
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:18 pm you guys are fucking lame, oranges is doing a good job by telling you to stfu
the problem isn't drug culture, idgaf what it is.
if people were running around yelling "I LOVE PEPPERS! PEPPERS! I LOVE PEPPERS!" constantly like it's their entire personality i'd have the same issue with it.

Simply ban them

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:42 am

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:07 pm
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:18 pm you guys are fucking lame, oranges is doing a good job by telling you to stfu
the problem isn't drug culture, idgaf what it is.
if people were running around yelling "I LOVE PEPPERS! PEPPERS! I LOVE PEPPERS!" constantly like it's their entire personality i'd have the same issue with it.

i dont see any fucking spice heads growing nothing but chilis and screaming DAMN BRO THIS SHIT FIRE OMG WHITE LIZARDS CAN'T HANDLE THE SPICE OOOOOOOOOOOO GOTTA SEASON THAT FOOD SHIT THIS SOME HABANERO HOT ONE MONSTER MIX but some retard growing a crate of 6000 rainbow leaves and dumping them in every department and screaming FREE WEED is an occurrence every round.

massa · Post by **massa** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:13 am #633564

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:42 am
datorangebottle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:07 pm
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:18 pm you guys are fucking lame, oranges is doing a good job by telling you to stfu
the problem isn't drug culture, idgaf what it is.
if people were running around yelling "I LOVE PEPPERS! PEPPERS! I LOVE PEPPERS!" constantly like it's their entire personality i'd have the same issue with it.
i dont see any fucking spice heads growing nothing but chilis and screaming DAMN BRO THIS SHIT FIRE OMG WHITE LIZARDS CAN'T HANDLE THE SPICE OOOOOOOOOOOO GOTTA SEASON THAT FOOD SHIT THIS SOME HABANERO HOT ONE MONSTER MIX but some retard growing a crate of 6000 rainbow leaves and dumping them in every department and screaming FREE WEED is an occurrence every round.

weed is cool and good i love weed so much

CMDR_Gungnir · Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:56 am

I had a round as Bartender recently where this dude just kept providing me with the materials for Lean and asking me to make it, while screaming "I LOVE LEAN!!!!!!!" every 30 seconds.

God I can't wait for this meme to die.

YBS · Post by **YBS** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:35 am #633590

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:42 am "I LOVE PEPPERS! PEPPERS! I LOVE PEPPERS!" constantly like it's their entire personality i'd have the same issue with it.
DAMN BRO THIS SHIT FIRE OMG WHITE LIZARDS CAN'T HANDLE THE SPICE OOOOOOOOOOOO GOTTA SEASON THAT FOOD SHIT THIS SOME HABANERO HOT ONE MONSTER MIX

My next chef gimmick not gonna lie.

ArcaneDefence · Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:52 am

YBS wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:35 am My next chef gimmick not gonna lie.

If you really wanna crank up the spice and heat theme try to get the bartender to serve mauna loa too

Pandarsenic · Post by **Pandarsenic** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:27 am #633601

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:13 pm
datorangebottle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:07 pm
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 10:18 pm you guys are fucking lame, oranges is doing a good job by telling you to stfu
the problem isn't drug culture, idgaf what it is.
if people were running around yelling "I LOVE PEPPERS! PEPPERS! I LOVE PEPPERS!" constantly like it's their entire personality i'd have the same issue with it.
Simply ban them

Are admins going to actually do this?

Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:42 am

IDK but it's what they should do, I'm not interested in poofing lean just because of players.
Maybe because of dumb memes, but not because of players

cacogen · Post by **cacogen** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:17 am #633613

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:12 pm On the other hand adding actual cannabis when we already had space weed was super cringe

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/19105 based goofball

anyone against a realistic depiction of drugs in this game (or a realistic depiction of anything for that matter) should fuck off back to roblox

Post by **iain0** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:42 pm #633695

massa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:08 pmfucking coders literally cannot tolerate seeing social interactions

Not just coders that are fed up of the FOTM meme parrot spam, include admins and players in there too.

As someone who largely cares less at the sheep like parroting of some dumb meme for 9 months straight until it's literally husked from the ammount of "fun" thats been forcibly extracted from it, lean means nothing to me.

The only thing I've picked up about lean from watching it be used "in context" for some weeks now is that it's somehow a drink, and I only know that because someone once prayed/ahelped for the ingredients for it and I had to check it wasn't one of those "admin gimme overpowered thing" requests.

THIS THREAD is the first interaction that has revealed to me the connection with cough syrup - and, I still don't care, but weeks of this garbage and I've learned /nothing/ from its use in "socialising".

The reality is this "social interaction" is a bunch of people running around like a group of 8 year olds in a playground shouting out a word as often as they can because they've just discovered "Dick" is both a name and rude!

Here's a delightful extract of all SAY lines involving the word "lean" in a round I randomly picked from Terry yesterday. There's some false hits (e.g. clean) and I've removed all the names and stuff but there's a good 6-12 people in this list overall. Look at how amazing these comments are (and yeah, totally depriving them of context sucks, but this cut down version isn't really missing much for 'context' because..... generally THERE IS NO CONTEXT TO SCREAMING LEAN RANDOMLY which is what at least half this stuff is)

And this is just one round.

► Show Spoiler

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:45 pm

Open admin tools.

Bwoink

"Say lean again and you're getting gibbed"

"Lea-"

Gib he

Problem SOLVED

Stop being a wuss and start abusing your power, coward

Post by **iain0** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:57 pm #633700

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:45 pm Open admin tools.

Bwoink

"Say lean again and you're getting gibbed"

"Lea-"

Gib he

Problem SOLVED

Stop being a wuss and start abusing your power, coward

I was more expecting this from goof given the other thread about revival time limits. Or one other person.

Admins are not a magical preventative cure all and as a Terry admin most rounds I'm just saturated dealing with the problem tickets and help request tickets (or shadowing potential griefers, which I've also been shouted at in the 'do your job' vein). Also on my task list is doing stuff like responding to prayers, tweaking the game to create a balance of chaos/calm, perhaps spawning events and other things. Most of this stuff there simply isn't time for.

And the next obvious statement is to get more admins. The answers aren't really that simple in practise.

But yeah, expect to get admin abused for this stuff.

Shadowflame909 · Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:01 pm

Maybe....

Admins need to just try shouting lean for a round and get joy from it?

Whichever player decided to go on an adventure to craft lean by drinking welder fuel and ethanol was having way more fun then any admin upset about him spamming it. Thats for sure

massa · Post by **massa** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:13 pm #633703

iprice wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:42 pm
massa wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:08 pmfucking coders literally cannot tolerate seeing social interactions
Not just coders that are fed up of the FOTM meme parrot spam, include admins and players in there too.

As someone who largely cares less at the sheep like parroting of some dumb meme for 9 months straight until it's literally husked from the ammount of "fun" thats been forcibly extracted from it, lean means nothing to me.

The only thing I've picked up about lean from watching it be used "in context" for some weeks now is that it's somehow a drink, and I only know that because someone once prayed/ahelped for the ingredients for it and I had to check it wasn't one of those "admin gimme overpowered thing" requests.

THIS THREAD is the first interaction that has revealed to me the connection with cough syrup - and, I still don't care, but weeks of this garbage and I've learned /nothing/ from its use in "socialising".

The reality is this "social interaction" is a bunch of people running around like a group of 8 year olds in a playground shouting out a word as often as they can because they've just discovered "Dick" is both a name and rude!

Here's a delightful extract of all SAY lines involving the word "lean" in a round I randomly picked from Terry yesterday. There's some false hits (e.g. clean) and I've removed all the names and stuff but there's a good 6-12 people in this list overall. Look at how amazing these comments are (and yeah, totally depriving them of context sucks, but this cut down version isn't really missing much for 'context' because..... generally THERE IS NO CONTEXT TO SCREAMING LEAN RANDOMLY which is what at least half this stuff is)

And this is just one round.
► Show Spoiler
all clean?
I am on a quest for LEAN.
LEAN
LEAN
MY LEAN
Prepare to eat LEAN
the lean clown is back
WITH THE POWER OF LEAN
LEAN
LEANNNN
LEAN!!!!
MY BELOVED LEAN
MY PRECIOUS LEANANA GOT STOLEN
is this the lean dispenser
Can I turn it into Leananium?
i got your leanana
clown, do you want your leanana
someone stole the cleaning fluid
lean
welding fuel and ehtnaol is lean?
LEAN
I AM FULL OF LEAN!!
LEAN!!
LEAN!!!!!!!
LEAN!!
LEAN
security is against lean
he attacked me while i was screaming lean
LEAN!!!
LEAN
RD seems to be the more LEANest of you all
Dolton has the leannaana
A Leansade
LEAN!!!!!!!!!
LEANNN
CLEANED
Leanify it
lean it
Leanrod
LEAN STICK!!
LEAN BRIDGE
LEAN BRIDGE!!
I NEED TO LEANIFY THE AXE
LEAN?????
I FUCKING LOVE LEAN
LEAN AXE
LEAN AXE!!
LEAN AXE
LEAN!!
ai do you love lean?
LEAN TIMEa
LEAN AXE!!
Do not harm the leanglass
Its leanglass
LEAN CONSOLE TIME
LEAN COMMUNICATION!!
THE BRIDGE IS NOW LEAN
THE BRIDGE IS NOW LEAN!!
LEAN BRIDGE
Not lean
LEAN!!!!!!!!
Leanptain
LEAN GLASS
LEAN GLASS!!
LEAN GLASS!!
He is in the lean containment chamber
shut up with the lean
BECOME LEAN
leansec forever!!!
I FOUND MY WAY WITH LEAN!!
We should strive to leanifty Security
Lean gave me racism powers
Leanist
LEAN CARGO
TO BUY LEAN STUFF!!
NOT ENOUGH LEAN!!
A lot of lean
LEANER GRENADE
THIS IS NOT LEAN!!
I got electricuted while leaning up the place
Lean time
First Lean kit
Lean
LEANBOTICS
i need to mix it with lean
IS there LEAN
There is freedom to make lean
Lean time
leanparture is over kids
Leansuit time
LEAN CRYSTAL
I AM LEAN AGAIN!!!!!!!!
lean clown
LEAN THE FUCK UP FOCKJERS
no lean
I NEED MY LEAN SUIT
Time for my lean suit
LEAN SUIT
DON'T WORRY BY THE POWER OF LEANSKULL, I WILL FREE YOU ALL WITH MY SUPER LEAN SUIT
Lean time
LEANSUIT DONE
Lean suit time
LEAN SUIT ACTIVATE
BY THE POWER OF LEAN
MY LEAN AXE!!
ive got the lean axe
LEAN
Time to prep the final leaning
My lean machine
lean machine
LEAN ROOM
lean room
LEAN
LEANBAY
lean
Lean
Stay back for the closing lean
lean moment
lean
LEAN???
LEAN!
LEAN
lean
Lemme leanift it
sssssss;LEANCLOWN OFF TO THE RESCUE

leanless hands posted this tbqhwy senpai

Post by **iain0** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:13 pm #633704

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:01 pmAdmins need to just try shouting lean for a round and get joy from it?

The "everyone is me" point of view.

(I.e. I derive no joy from spamming something meaninglessly to death, I prefer interaction with content and concept, and ideally discussion and exchange. Often a bit of an ask at any level.)

Rohen_Tahir · Post by **Rohen_Tahir** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:42 pm #633706

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:01 pm Maybe....

Admins need to just try shouting lean for a round and get joy from it?

Whichever player decided to go on an adventure to craft lean by drinking welder fuel and ethanol was having way more fun then any admin upset about him spamming it. Thats for sure

BEE SOCKS

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:25 pm

iprice wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:57 pm
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:45 pm Open admin tools.

Bwoink

"Say lean again and you're getting gibbed"

"Lea-"

Gib he

Problem SOLVED

Stop being a wuss and start abusing your power, coward
I was more expecting this from goof given the other thread about revival time limits. Or one other person.

Admins are not a magical preventative cure all and as a Terry admin most rounds I'm just saturated dealing with the problem tickets and help request tickets (or shadowing potential griefers, which I've also been shouted at in the 'do your job' vein). Also on my task list is doing stuff like responding to prayers, tweaking the game to create a balance of chaos/calm, perhaps spawning events and other things. Most of this stuff there simply isn't time for.

And the next obvious statement is to get more admins. The answers aren't really that simple in practise.

But yeah, expect to get admin abused for this stuff.

Terry is a bad server have you considered just blacklisting all the terryites

cacogen · Post by **cacogen** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:40 pm #633740

iprice wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:42 pm And this is just one round.
► Show Spoiler
all clean?
I am on a quest for LEAN.
LEAN
LEAN
MY LEAN
Prepare to eat LEAN
the lean clown is back
WITH THE POWER OF LEAN
LEAN
LEANNNN
LEAN!!!!
MY BELOVED LEAN
MY PRECIOUS LEANANA GOT STOLEN
is this the lean dispenser
Can I turn it into Leananium?
i got your leanana
clown, do you want your leanana
someone stole the cleaning fluid
lean
welding fuel and ehtnaol is lean?
LEAN
I AM FULL OF LEAN!!
LEAN!!
LEAN!!!!!!!
LEAN!!
LEAN
security is against lean
he attacked me while i was screaming lean
LEAN!!!
LEAN
RD seems to be the more LEANest of you all
Dolton has the leannaana
A Leansade
LEAN!!!!!!!!!
LEANNN
CLEANED
Leanify it
lean it
Leanrod
LEAN STICK!!
LEAN BRIDGE
LEAN BRIDGE!!
I NEED TO LEANIFY THE AXE
LEAN?????
I FUCKING LOVE LEAN
LEAN AXE
LEAN AXE!!
LEAN AXE
LEAN!!
ai do you love lean?
LEAN TIMEa
LEAN AXE!!
Do not harm the leanglass
Its leanglass
LEAN CONSOLE TIME
LEAN COMMUNICATION!!
THE BRIDGE IS NOW LEAN
THE BRIDGE IS NOW LEAN!!
LEAN BRIDGE
Not lean
LEAN!!!!!!!!
Leanptain
LEAN GLASS
LEAN GLASS!!
LEAN GLASS!!
He is in the lean containment chamber
shut up with the lean
BECOME LEAN
leansec forever!!!
I FOUND MY WAY WITH LEAN!!
We should strive to leanifty Security
Lean gave me racism powers
Leanist
LEAN CARGO
TO BUY LEAN STUFF!!
NOT ENOUGH LEAN!!
A lot of lean
LEANER GRENADE
THIS IS NOT LEAN!!
I got electricuted while leaning up the place
Lean time
First Lean kit
Lean
LEANBOTICS
i need to mix it with lean
IS there LEAN
There is freedom to make lean
Lean time
leanparture is over kids
Leansuit time
LEAN CRYSTAL
I AM LEAN AGAIN!!!!!!!!
lean clown
LEAN THE FUCK UP FOCKJERS
no lean
I NEED MY LEAN SUIT
Time for my lean suit
LEAN SUIT
DON'T WORRY BY THE POWER OF LEANSKULL, I WILL FREE YOU ALL WITH MY SUPER LEAN SUIT
Lean time
LEANSUIT DONE
Lean suit time
LEAN SUIT ACTIVATE
BY THE POWER OF LEAN
MY LEAN AXE!!
ive got the lean axe
LEAN
Time to prep the final leaning
My lean machine
lean machine
LEAN ROOM
lean room
LEAN
LEANBAY
lean
Lean
Stay back for the closing lean
lean moment
lean
LEAN???
LEAN!
LEAN
lean
Lemme leanift it
sssssss;LEANCLOWN OFF TO THE RESCUE

This is fun/funny but if you truly hate humour and people enjoying themselves you should play on Manuel, which is a server where nothing ever happens and rounds are spent whispering to your metafriends.

Post by **iain0** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:11 pm #633761

cacogen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:40 pm This is fun/funny but if you truly hate humour and people enjoying themselves you should play on Manuel, which is a server where nothing ever happens and rounds are spent whispering to your metafriends.

Again just the baseless assertion that funny is objective *shrugs*.

I mean, I don't personally /care/, if going around screaming the same word at each other a few hundred times in a week ticks your boxes for "social interaction" and "fun" then life's pretty easy (at least in that regard) for you, twitch chat is generally an endless stream of repeated unfunny crap so you should find it exceedingly straight forward to get your thrills just about anywhere.

The counter point to "go play on manual where there's no fun" i suppose is "go parrot your meaningless garbage on twitch, amongst all the rest of it".

Isn't really much of a take either way is it?

cacogen · Post by **cacogen** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:56 pm #633772

I truly do think that you're administrating the wrong server if you don't like that sort of thing. You won't see it on Manuel. It's not something I would say but it seems like a fun kind of atmosphere.

Rohen_Tahir · Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:36 pm

Merged.

Farquaar · Post by **Farquaar** » Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:38 pm #633838

Farquaar wrote: ↑Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:48 pm Imagine getting this tilted over a cough syrup drink

datorangebottle · Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm

local village idiot opens his mouth and gets clubbed in the face with a cricket bat by an angry orange man, news at eleven.

carshalash · Post by **carshalash** » Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:16 am #633857

I was apathetic about its inclusion into the game until I learnt bindy added it.

I now 500% endorse its removal. Get fucked dude.

Farquaar · Post by **Farquaar** » Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:30 am #633859

carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:16 am I was apathetic about its inclusion into the game until I learnt bindy added it.

I now 500% endorse its removal. Get fucked dude.

Did I miss something about bindy? You're talking about the man like he killed your wife.

carshalash · Post by **carshalash** » Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:52 am #633863

Farquaar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:30 am
carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:16 am I was apathetic about its inclusion into the game until I learnt bindy added it.

I now 500% endorse its removal. Get fucked dude.
Did I miss something about bindy? You're talking about the man like he killed your wife.

He did.

Rohen_Tahir · Post by **Rohen_Tahir** » Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:50 am #633899

carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:52 am
Farquaar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:30 am
carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:16 am I was apathetic about its inclusion into the game until I learnt bindy added it.

I now 500% endorse its removal. Get fucked dude.
Did I miss something about bindy? You're talking about the man like he killed your wife.
He did.

Shadowflame909 · Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:19 am

Rohen_Tahir wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:50 am
carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:52 am
Farquaar wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:30 am
carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:16 am I was apathetic about its inclusion into the game until I learnt bindy added it.

I now 500% endorse its removal. Get fucked dude.
Did I miss something about bindy? You're talking about the man like he killed your wife.
He did.

I ded plz restart

cacogen · Post by **cacogen** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:24 am #634013

wife ded plz restart hart

YBS · Post by **YBS** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:51 am #634020

carshalash wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:16 am He did.

James Sunderland Moment

cacogen · Post by **cacogen** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:03 am #634033

We should add a Bindy Johal memorial plaque to the game that commemorates the life and legacy of the real-world Bindy Johal, a man struck down in his prime and taken from us before he could accomplish his life’s work and catapult humanity into the future like a modern day Isaac Newton.

The plaque would be copper like the new bench press weights, approximating the colour orange and representing oranges making peace with the legacy of the video game version of Bindy Johal, a man celebrated by his peers as a paragon of ironic humour and working class relatability.

Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:07 pm

cacogen wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 6:03 am We should add a Bindy Johal memorial plaque to the game that commemorates the life and legacy of the real-world Bindy Johal, a man struck down in his prime and taken from us before he could accomplish his life’s work and catapult humanity into the future like a modern day Isaac Newton.

The plaque would be copper like the new bench press weights, approximating the colour orange and representing oranges making peace with the legacy of the video game version of Bindy Johal, a man celebrated by his peers as a paragon of ironic humour and working class relatability.

also its behind a reinforced glass window that you have to smash to see it