hypothetical: you are in charge of designing an Original Xeno Antag

[nianjiilical]

so first of all im not making this thread to argue that xeno should be changed or removed, for any reason, but i was thinking recently

a lot of xeno's gameplay mechanics are because they're xenomorphs. they have different castes because thats what xenomorphs do in the movies, they facehug you and explode out of your chest because thats what xenos do, they make resin and lay eggs because thats what xenos do

so, hypothetically, if xenomorphs were ever redone to be an Original Alien Do Not Steal, and you were put in charge of it, what would they look like gameplay wise? would they just be bargain bin xenos that have all the same "lore" and gameplay? would you radically change them in any way?

give me your ideas for what an original xeno antag would look like

[BONERMASTER]

That's really hard to beat. They look fucking badass, they're (mostly) huge, strong, lightning fast, deadly, and they do to you all the horrible things that a monster could do. In my eyes, they're the perfect sci-fi monster, and whenever you change something about it, the entire magic about these things goes out the window.

So, just change up their colour a bit, remove a few spikes here and there, and give them a very lengthy and complicated name so everyone just calls them xeno instead.... and hope you get away it.


With alien regards
-BONERMASTER

[Pandarsenic]

Maybe take away the xenos throwing the facehuggers, but make eggs much more dangerous and hard to clear. Bringing facehuggers to the front and yeeting them at people feels a bit goofy for one of the most iconic and terrifying sci-fi monsters of all time. I'd like scarier nests but less important of biohoods to fight them outside of their habitats.

Maybe make eggs pop up spontaneously in cultivated areas instead of the queen poopin? I REALLY like the sense of these areas that they've totally infested and made inhospitable to humans, and it might be cool to make the gameplay lean into that a little more but still not be blob.

Maybe differentiate castes based on the facehugged carbon (being more like the movies, not less, of all things. I know, right?)

Hmm. I should crack open hit film Aliens (1986) to answer this question better.

[massa]

they are truly already perfect antags

[SkeletalElite]

Honestly could just make one super buff xeno instead of a hive. They don't really achieve that nearly unstoppable apex predator feeling currently. Could set a horror tone that you are being hunted. You are the prey. Maybe facehuggers could just become one of their objectives but the "hatching process" or whatever takes longer than an actual shift so you only ever encounter one xeno or perhaps the point of achieving mutliple xenos becomes a delta level win condition or something almost like nar'sie with the harvesters.

You wouldn't even need to entirely do away with the caste system either, just instead make hte caste something that kind of affects the playstyle of the xeno so the gameplay a little different from one xeno to the next rather than each xeno type having a specific role they're all general roles that go about things in a slightly different way.

[Shadowflame909]

Xeno should be a genetically max evolved crew. Like genetics on steroids. The crew wins by their intellectually evolved sci-fi weapons.

Thus xenos are now space x-men

[Boot]

Maybe if a Xeno hive grows large enough it auto-recalls the shuttle and gives the ai the quarantine law.

[BlevRuz]

Xeno should be a genetically max evolved crew. Like genetics on steroids. The crew wins by their intellectually evolved sci-fi weapons.

Thus xenos are now space x-men

yes, and their sprites should be the xeno sprites but retextured with flesh colours

Maybe if a Xeno hive grows large enough it auto-recalls the shuttle and gives the ai the quarantine law.

i think in general you should only be able to stop the shuttle if you're going to end the round somehow, which afaik the xenos dont do

[Timonk]

We should add the ability to carry people to this xeno antag

[YBS]

Maybe if a Xeno hive grows large enough it auto-recalls the shuttle and gives the ai the quarantine law.

I really like this idea. A diet delta, basically.

[Pandarsenic]

Xenos getting a Delta/Nuke the Station, it's the only way to be sure ending would rule. Alternatively, crew massively redtexts/xenos green text if any benos get aboard the shuttle or pods.

[Itseasytosee2me]

Style them off of Nemmisis's (2019) original Alien does not steal "Intruders".

[Mrzelix]

If we had to stop stealing from Xenomorphs, I say we start stealing from tyranids

[Valorium]

Honestly could just make one super buff xeno instead of a hive. They don't really achieve that nearly unstoppable apex predator feeling currently. Could set a horror tone that you are being hunted. You are the prey. Maybe facehuggers could just become one of their objectives but the "hatching process" or whatever takes longer than an actual shift so you only ever encounter one xeno or perhaps the point of achieving mutliple xenos becomes a delta level win condition or something almost like nar'sie with the harvesters.

You wouldn't even need to entirely do away with the caste system either, just instead make hte caste something that kind of affects the playstyle of the xeno so the gameplay a little different from one xeno to the next rather than each xeno type having a specific role they're all general roles that go about things in a slightly different way.

This could be interesting. My only worry is that it'd run headlong into The Wizard Problem (trademark, patent pending) of having a massive threat antagonist just be fun for one person who runs around stabbing people to death with its +5 spiky tail of pointyness. If there was a good way of bringing people back into the round without admin intervention, I could see this change being interesting.

[Jonathan Gupta]

First off I would make them lay mind parasites instead of actual eggs, and make them more mental focused instead of physical due to physical fighting being boring mental fights are truly the fun shit.

[datorangebottle]

Mechanically:
The whole caste system ant hive thing is fine. 'classes' of xeno that play differently, etc.
Having to put players in GBJ for them to hatch into aliens is not.
Hunters moving at meth speeds is not good; being faster than the average creature yes, being literally uncontrollably fast, no. They should still be faster than the average human, but it should be possible to shoot them.
The current alien nest structure and eggs could be combined, in that putting a creature into the 'nest' gives the body a larva to incubate and ghosts them, so that they don't have to waste several minutes of their time waiting to be rescued.
Remove facehuggers; they're not fun to play against, don't match any of the other xenos in color or style, and xenos honestly have more than enough stuns going for them already.
Give hunters wings so that they can move at proper speed in low gravity.
Xenos becoming a large portion of station population should ABSOLUTELY result in a nuking of the station, like how blob gets nuked when it gets to a certain size.

Art/Lorewise
I'd like to see more variation in what the xenos look like. Even with the assumption we don't get to keep the same sprites because they're too similar, the queen should be huge and intimidating, the hunters lithe and spiky. The sentinels, drones and larvae should more resemble the aliens' architecture, having somewhat smoother chitin compared to all the spikes that the queen and hunter get.
As far as lore goes, they could be natives to a planetoid with an atmosphere made of plasma that was just about destroyed when humans landed on it and accidentally set it on fire. Now they're a walking biological disaster, hopping from ship to ship and seeking to spread their hive as far as possible.
To fit this lore, I imagine things would have adapted to life on a planet with a thick plasma atmosphere, so what do we know about plasma?
-it's highly flammable
-it's a lovely shade of violet
-something about micro-organisms and plasmamen I don't exactly remember
A theoretical xeno redesign could have them a brighter shade of purple. Just because we want them to hide in maintenance and space doesn't mean the creatures themselves are adapted for it. They still have to be chitin and fangs and claws- that much is locked in by their insectoid nature- but they can look a little different, perhaps taking inspiration from different insect species for different castes. I'd absolutely like to see a move away from them being bipeds, though.
The Queen could be based on, in part, the shape of a Flea. Six legs, bulky backside, maybe add a big chunky beetle horn or jaws on its head for extra intimidation factor. Perhaps give it an incredibly dangerous charge attack, to make up for losing the tail sweep due to the lack of a tail.
Hunters being hunters, could be based on a flying insect, like a hornet or wasp.
Drones and Sentinels should absolutely be based on beetles of some sort. Perhaps a rhinoceros beetle horn for the sentinels, and something smaller for the drones, to help distinguish them.
Larva should be closer to maggots than snakes, and there should absolutely be some kind of 'cocoon' stage between evolutions.

wow, i spent way too much time thinking about this.

[Tearling]

they are truly already perfect antags

I'm always scared to say "I actually completely agree to this" because the person I'm agreeing with might say "It was sarcastic" but I'll take that risk here.
They're already the best antag. I have fun with them, and even though plenty of manuelites hate them, I think Xenos serve an important purpose to the game.
That purpose is to be fun, and maybe not always balanced.

[Pandarsenic]

they are truly already perfect antags

I'm always scared to say "I actually completely agree to this" because the person I'm agreeing with might say "It was sarcastic" but I'll take that risk here.
They're already the best antag. I have fun with them, and even though plenty of manuelites hate them, I think Xenos serve an important purpose to the game.
That purpose is to be fun, and maybe not always balanced.

They're basically the only antag that guarantees ghosts get to do shit at roughly the same rate the crew dies

This is and will forever be their crowning achievement

[WineAllWine]

Maybe if a Xeno hive grows large enough it auto-recalls the shuttle and gives the ai the quarantine law.

I really like this idea. A diet delta, basically.

Yeah this is great, the problem with xenos is crew immediately calls once they're found so we don't get to play that much of it.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

Maybe if a Xeno hive grows large enough it auto-recalls the shuttle and gives the ai the quarantine law.

I really like this idea. A diet delta, basically.

Yeah this is great, the problem with xenos is crew immediately calls once they're found so we don't get to play that much of it.

Just immediately recall when they do until the xenos are dealt with, maybe send an ERT or two. While the idea is 'When the hive grows large enough', Central probably wouldn't really want to fuck around and find out. It only takes ONE larva for a hive to start.

[SkeletalElite]

I thought a little bit about single monstrous xeno thing.

Infections gets a rebrand, they aren't a round removal thing. You infect someone and it replaces their heart with a "larval heart" this does 2 things. It makes the infected person susceptible to an ability that lets the xeno pacify anyone infected around them for an extended duration, this gives the xeno a way to win without going full bone. Dead infected people do count towards winning but maybe at a slower rate. Its also a goal to win, you need a certain number of infections. THere could be other goals to, but this would be the main one.

You could also maybe add some sort of "evolution" upgrade system where you get stronger as you get more infections and can maybe choose different upgrades, and you could tie winning to evolution progress, but that's a lot more complicated.

You can try to get your larval heart replaced but its difficult to do. Like during the removal the larval heart will constantly attack the surgeon doing damage and potentially wounding them. As a last resort when removed the larval heart will also shred other organs in your chest and give you a load of toxins/brute/burn damage. This means it will be easier to brain transplant than to fix current body. To ensure this isn't too ideal, if the body a larval inhabits has its brain removed it will instantly pop out of the chest into a moderately lethal simple mob that will go wild on anyone nearby. If it manages to crit someone. It will infect them and replace their heart.

Lings of course can regenerate this away or panacea it away. I'm not sure how heretics work with their living heart? It's like actually their heart or something? Maybe they're just immune to infection because of that or something or they can get some sort of unique interaction where their living heart becomes a larval heart too.

If the xeno hits their win condition everyone with a larval heart will get a message and start shaking then gib and turn into a smol xeno 30 seconds later. Delta triggers, game over.

Shuttle can't leave the station while the xeno is alive same as blob.

[InfiniteGalaxies]

snip

This sounds like a really cool idea for a rework. Could take a while to code, but maybe you can bounty a pr. Would love to see this ingame

[massa]

snip with prejudice

i hate this and i hate attempts to remove "round removal" from the game

people die.

[SkeletalElite]

snip with prejudice

i hate this and i hate attempts to remove "round removal" from the game

people die.

okay I never said you couldn't kill people I just gave you a way to win that doesn't force you to merc everyone you see

[massa]

snip with prejudice

i hate this and i hate attempts to remove "round removal" from the game

people die.

okay I never said you couldn't kill people I just gave you a way to win that doesn't force you to merc everyone you see

xenomorphs are an artistic motif depicting sacrifice, union and rebirth.

death is mandatory, and this is what makes them perfect. they are utterly hostile towards all life without remorse or exception.

[SkeletalElite]

snip with prejudice

i hate this and i hate attempts to remove "round removal" from the game

people die.

okay I never said you couldn't kill people I just gave you a way to win that doesn't force you to merc everyone you see

xenomorphs are an artistic motif depicting sacrifice, union and rebirth.

death is mandatory, and this is what makes them perfect. they are utterly hostile towards all life without remorse or exception.

If implanting someone with a parasitic being that replaces their heart that eventually kills them after outgrowing the use for them isn't sacrifice and "being utterly hostile towards life" then I don't know what is.
Its far more than clicking spaceman until horitzontal

[datorangebottle]

People die. Trying to remove death from the game is wack.

[NoxVS]

replace it with the venom antag (coming 2022)

[Rohen_Tahir]

replace it with the venom antag (coming 2022)

A venom antag that doesn't kill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bQJI73hAw