Massa tribalism peanut

Itseasytosee2me · Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:28 pm

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31971
Massa, the one of newest consistent forms uses (superseded the ever venerable celularLAmp) has been banned!

It is a horrific thought that the moment one of us falls, the rest move in to rip us to shreds. Such is the brutality of the tg forums.

BONERMASTER · Post by **BONERMASTER** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:26 pm #644796

This is the first time I have ever heard about server tribalism and this being a bannable thing. I don't even know what to argue here, is this even a permissable thing? Who is the administrator that pulled the trigger on this?

With confused regards
-BONERMASTER

Post by **NoxVS** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:35 pm #644803

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:26 pm This is the first time I have ever heard about server tribalism and this being a bannable thing. I don't even know what to argue here, is this even a permissable thing? Who is the administrator that pulled the trigger on this?

With confused regards
-BONERMASTER

From the forum rules -

We are here to have fun, if you are not having fun, maybe it would be best for you to take a break

If you consistently cause drama, we may ask (read: ban) that you take a break, and may also require that you abandon your old identity should we allow you to come back.

Please be respectful of other users. You can disagree with someone without being a hostile douchebag.

celularLAmp · Post by **celularLAmp** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:40 pm #644804

People make fun of terry players for being racists

shouldn't manuel be allowed to be made fun of for being a roleplay server?

and the first note I don't think had to do with servers at all but just encouraging griefing even though it was clearly a joke

toemas · Post by **toemas** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:13 pm #644805

shit ban

Post by **Thunder11** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:48 pm #644808

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:26 pm This is the first time I have ever heard about server tribalism and this being a bannable thing. I don't even know what to argue here, is this even a permissable thing? Who is the administrator that pulled the trigger on this?

With confused regards
-BONERMASTER

You say you are an expert ban lawyer, yet have never even heard of toxic terry elitists

Boot · Post by **Boot** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:01 pm #644809

When they strike down one the next will stand even taller. Mannymins will never break our spirits.

Post by **Vekter** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:39 pm #644810

I don't think I can comment on this one since it involves me.

My stance should be pretty clear anyway.

BONERMASTER · Post by **BONERMASTER** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:41 pm #644811

Thunder11 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:48 pm
BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:26 pm This is the first time I have ever heard about server tribalism and this being a bannable thing. I don't even know what to argue here, is this even a permissable thing? Who is the administrator that pulled the trigger on this?

With confused regards
-BONERMASTER
You say you are an expert ban lawyer, yet have never even heard of toxic terry elitists

Similar to how you are misrepresenting and using false evidence against your victims in your ahelps, you are also attributing claims and hearsay to me that is simply not true. Terry elitism is certainly well-known to me, and I bet also the community at large. However, I can not recall a single time having heard the phrase "server-tribalism", even less so that it is being actively pursued!

I am certainly not perfect, and I will humbly admit, that the learning never stops, as I am already in the process of getting to the bottom of this. In the meanwhile, mister Pro Capone, you ought to keep your pointy fingers to yourself. If your last appeal is anything to go by, you should consider doing some humble learning yourself!

With wise regards
-BONERMASTER

chocolate_bickie · Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:44 pm

As part of the discovery process here is a quick search of 'server tribalism' on the forums;

search.php?keywords=server+tribalism

EDIT: It's worth noting that a lot of these posts come from candidate debates, who were discussing how to reduce it.

It appears that the headmins have decided the correct solution is to ban anyone who speaks ill of a server.

Post by **RaveRadbury** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:49 pm #644814

Forum Warrior wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi1KebO4bzc

wubli · Post by **wubli** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:12 pm #644815

celularLAmp wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:40 pm People make fun of terry players for being racists

shouldn't manuel be allowed to be made fun of for being a roleplay server?

Capsandi · Post by **Capsandi** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:21 pm #644816

On one hand: This ban blows real bad and I really want to complain about it

On the other hand: digg frog pfp

Sorry massa

toemas · Post by **toemas** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:46 pm #644818

Saying things that admins don't like is now a bannable offense

toemas · Post by **toemas** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:48 pm #644820

also manuel is a garbage server with garbage players and that much is evident by just looking at their library

Post by **oranges** » Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:05 pm #644821

sinfulbliss · Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:23 pm

Bans like this don’t help solve server tribalism, they just exacerbate it when people see you can get banned for expressing your negative view of other servers.

Manuel generally has gotten a lot of it but it’s by no means unique to them. There’s plenty between Sybil and Terry as well, it’s inevitable.

Rohen_Tahir · Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:36 pm

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:49 pm
Forum Warrior wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi1KebO4bzc

fair point

Post by **NoxVS** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:55 am #644828

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:23 pm Bans like this don’t help solve server tribalism, they just exacerbate it when people see you can get banned for expressing your negative view of other servers.

Manuel generally has gotten a lot of it but it’s by no means unique to them. There’s plenty between Sybil and Terry as well, it’s inevitable.

No, you see officer, there are other mass murderers out there and arresting me won’t do anything about them. Murder is going to happen even if you try arresting us so there’s no point in trying it. You aren’t solving the murder crisis.

Turbonerd · Post by **Turbonerd** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:04 am #644829

I wish people were less mean.

Turbonerd · Post by **Turbonerd** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:05 am #644830

I wish people were better and less mean.

Post by **Vekter** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:14 am #644831

I genuinely don't understand how people think acting like this adds some kind of value to the forums or even does anything but piss people off.

I don't personally care about your opinion on any of the servers, nor do I think most people care. You could at least present it in some kind of productive manner instead of just being a cunt about it.

wesoda25 · Post by **wesoda25** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 1:48 am #644834

Looking past whatever buzzwords were used in the ban, I think this just boils down to “stop being toxic.” Which is almost unprecedented in forums, from what I know. I don’t think it’s a bad thing, but tbh forums have sucked for so long that I don’t really care (and i have no ground to stand on). Congrats to massa, you can now do something better with your time.

sinfulbliss · Post by **sinfulbliss** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:14 am #644838

NoxVS wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:55 am
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:23 pm Bans like this don’t help solve server tribalism, they just exacerbate it when people see you can get banned for expressing your negative view of other servers.

Manuel generally has gotten a lot of it but it’s by no means unique to them. There’s plenty between Sybil and Terry as well, it’s inevitable.
No, you see officer, there are other mass murderers out there and arresting me won’t do anything about them. Murder is going to happen even if you try arresting us so there’s no point in trying it. You aren’t solving the murder crisis.

Nox why are all your arguments bad faith and intentional misrepresentations.

What I’m saying is that dividing TG into 3 very different servers of very different environments will create people who prefer theirs to the others and start to express why that’s the case, some in a harsh and abrasive way.

I don’t see it as necessary to restrict speech to this degree because it doesn’t actually make servers friendlier with each other or improve relations, it just looks like muting people for being mean (which, to be fair, it is, but I sure as hell have never seen the forums have a problem with people being toxic when it’s being toxic about the right things).

Post by **RaveRadbury** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:17 am #644840

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:14 am What I’m saying is that dividing TG into 3 very different servers of very different environments will create people who prefer theirs to the others and start to express why that’s the case, some in a harsh and abrasive way.

lmao saying that the servers are going to create people, yeah it's the servers that make people, not people showing up and already being fully formed humans.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:14 am I don’t see it as necessary to restrict speech to this degree because it doesn’t actually make servers friendlier with each other or improve relations, it just looks like muting people for being mean (which, to be fair, is is, but I sure as hell have never seen the forums have a problem with mean people when it suits the status quo).

It is muting and banning people for being mean. Stop being mean. This is not hard. We have a rule about it.

Welcome to the new normal.

sinfulbliss · Post by **sinfulbliss** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:24 am #644841

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:17 am lmao saying that the servers are going to create people, yeah it's the servers that make people, not people showing up and already being fully formed humans.

That’s right! Believe it or not, people have this thing where they begin to identify in communities that they exist in, and become partial to them. So long as this exists toxicity between them will also exist.

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:17 am It is muting and banning people for being mean. Stop being mean. This is not hard. We have a rule about it.

Welcome to the new normal.

That’s fine. Then it should apply to every situation of someone being mean. Everyone should be protected by this rule, not just Manuel. If you are truly serious about enforcing it, then enforce it. It’d be applicable to a whole lot fuckin more situations than just this one.

Here’s to the new normal, anyway..

Post by **RaveRadbury** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:29 am #644842

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:24 am That’s fine. Then it should apply to every situation of someone being mean. Everyone should be protected by this rule, not just Manuel. If you are truly serious about enforcing it, then enforce it. It’d be applicable to a whole lot fuckin more situations than just this one.

To speak in like the actual specifics of the situation: the issue is mainly with criticism that is ungrounded, that isn't constructive. "x bad" is garbage and we'd be better with less of it. You want to criticize Manuel? Go for it. I criticize Manuel all the time. You just have to be like, y'know, actually constructive about it, make comments that actually address the problems.

sinfulbliss · Post by **sinfulbliss** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:34 am #644845

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:29 am To speak in like the actual specifics of the situation: the issue is mainly with criticism that is ungrounded, that isn't constructive. "x bad" is garbage and we'd be better with less of it. You want to criticize Manuel? Go for it. I criticize Manuel all the time. You just have to be like, y'know, actually constructive about it, make comments that actually address the problems.

Why does Manuel get this unique protection though? Individuals are toxic to other individuals regularly on forums. People get plenty of toxic shit on their peanut threads directed at either them or the admin. They’re hardly ever articulated “critiques.” Where was this rule then?

Super Aggro Crag as funny as they are would have been banned 600 times by now if this rule was actually enforced as a standard equally.

Kendrickorium · Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:38 am

if you get warned repeatedly to stop doing something, stop doing it.

mr melbert recently sent me a forum warning about toxic bullshit and while I told him I disagreed with the warning, I would try to be more respectful. then I apologized to the person in question. it's not hard if you make an ounce
of effort to get along with the entire community

Kendrickorium · Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:39 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:34 am
RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:29 am To speak in like the actual specifics of the situation: the issue is mainly with criticism that is ungrounded, that isn't constructive. "x bad" is garbage and we'd be better with less of it. You want to criticize Manuel? Go for it. I criticize Manuel all the time. You just have to be like, y'know, actually constructive about it, make comments that actually address the problems.
Why does Manuel get this unique protection though? Individuals are toxic to other individuals regularly on forums. People get plenty of toxic shit on their peanut threads directed at either them or the admin. They’re hardly ever articulated “critiques.” Where was this rule then?

Super Aggro Crag as funny as they are would have been banned 600 times by now if this rule was actually enforced as a standard equally.

I think the new team is making a concentrated effort to make everyone a bit more polite on the forums

Post by **RaveRadbury** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:39 am #644848

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:34 am Why does Manuel get this unique protection though? Individuals are toxic to other individuals regularly on forums. People get plenty of toxic shit on their peanut threads directed at either them or the admin. They’re hardly ever articulated “critiques.” Where was this rule then?

Super Aggro Crag as funny as they are would have been banned 600 times by now if this rule was actually enforced as a standard equally.

Admins are generally unprotected from criticism because silencing mean words against staff is seen as pretty bad by everyone, staff included.

Individual toxicity? That gets reported and also it seems like an acceptable part of culture. Do you want to see peanuts gone? It seems part and parcel to me idk.

As for the server protections, this has been an issue that's been discussed as a part of the recent headmin election (already brought up) and discussed internally. Be baselessly toxic about any server and watch what happens.

The headmins have decided this term that their done with people spewing server toxicity for lulz. During my term we told admins to stop ragging on Terry and Manuel, now the rest of the community is being held up to this standard.

Tearling · Post by **Tearling** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:51 am #644850

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:29 am You want to criticize Manuel? Go for it. I criticize Manuel all the time. You just have to be like, y'know, actually constructive about it, make comments that actually address the problems.

Why? Sometimes it's hard to know exactly what is the problem. Sometimes you might not have fun on a certain server, but not know why. Not everyone wants to spend an hour contemplating the quality of a server and the reasons why they didn't enjoy it to justify criticizing the server.

It's frustrating to be told something you like is bad, without being given a good enough reason, but limiting how people speak over the forum isn't going to get rid of those thoughts, it's just going to make the people who feel them even more frustrated. I think this ban is especially atrocious.

Now, for another criticism of this ban.

I've reported posts for being against rule 7 in the past, posts that were less civil than massa's, but they were ignored.
But now when someone gives a criticism of manuel they get the boot? This really doesn't look good. I don't usually like massa but the idea of getting banned for saying "manuel bans are literally worst and more ridiculous than fulp bans" reflects badly on the forum administration when "Step down, clown. You did not pass. You're nothing but a deadmin candidate." is considered completely fine, not actionable.

Post by **Mothblocks** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:00 am #644852

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:34 am
Super Aggro Crag as funny as they are would have been banned 600 times by now if this rule was actually enforced as a standard equally.

Funny you say that, because I placed Crag on post approval on the coding subforum for this exact same reason several months ago and have been very happy with the results. Been meaning to lift it.

Edit: This exact reason being "general toxicity", not server tribalism

Nabski · Post by **Nabski** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:04 am #644853

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:00 am
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:34 am
Super Aggro Crag as funny as they are would have been banned 600 times by now if this rule was actually enforced as a standard equally.
Funny you say that, because I placed Crag on post approval on the coding subforum for this exact same reason several months ago and have been very happy with the results. Been meaning to lift it.

Edit: This exact reason being "general toxicity", not server tribalism

Why are you in your own peanut thread. Booooo.

Post by **Mothblocks** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:05 am #644855

Usually I don't but I thought that one was interesting

Kendrickorium · Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:06 am

i could have told you myself aggro was warned/talked to, he's been pretty chill lately

sinfulbliss · Post by **sinfulbliss** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:33 am #644859

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:00 am
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:34 am
Super Aggro Crag as funny as they are would have been banned 600 times by now if this rule was actually enforced as a standard equally.
Funny you say that, because I placed Crag on post approval on the coding subforum for this exact same reason several months ago and have been very happy with the results. Been meaning to lift it.

Edit: This exact reason being "general toxicity", not server tribalism

Got you to leak a ban, conduct being sent to (other) headmins. I always win in the end as usual.

Post by **Vekter** » Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:41 am #644861

The question would be whether or not massa would react in the same way if he saw someone banned for shit talking Terry or Sybil.

The answer? Probably not.

iwishforducks · Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:59 am

there has not been one time that ive walked away thinking that one of massa’s forum posts has had an overall positive impact on the forum. this is not to say that every post of theirs i feel is negative, but it’s gotten to the point where i dont even read their posts even if it’s in a reply chain

Indie-ana Jones · Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:23 am

The difference between complaining about Manuel vs. the other servers is that Manuel deserves it.

dirk_mcblade · Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:30 pm

Hard to imagine getting your jimmies rustled over a forum ban. It's a web 1.0 forum bro. Go outside for a couple weeks. Lift weights or something.

toemas · Post by **toemas** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:05 pm #644988

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:30 pm Hard to imagine getting your jimmies rustled over a forum ban. It's a web 1.0 forum bro. Go outside for a couple weeks. Lift weights or something.

Hard to imagine getting your jimmies rustled over a forum post. It's a web 1.0 forum bro. Go outside for a couple weeks. Lift weights or something.

dirk_mcblade · Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:18 pm

toemas wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:05 pm
dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:30 pm Hard to imagine getting your jimmies rustled over a forum ban. It's a web 1.0 forum bro. Go outside for a couple weeks. Lift weights or something.
Hard to imagine getting your jimmies rustled over a forum post. It's a web 1.0 forum bro. Go outside for a couple weeks. Lift weights or something.

Im so mad rn

Rohen_Tahir · Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:27 pm

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:30 pm Hard to imagine getting your jimmies rustled over a forum ban. It's a web 1.0 forum bro. Go outside for a couple weeks. Lift weights or something.

to all lurkers who did not yet know this: everything on this forum is written by one guy

Tearling · Post by **Tearling** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:58 pm #645002

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:59 am there has not been one time that ive walked away thinking that one of massa’s forum posts has had an overall positive impact on the forum. this is not to say that every post of theirs i feel is negative, but it’s gotten to the point where i dont even read their posts even if it’s in a reply chain

While I agree with this, is it normal to walk away from anyone's forum posts thinking it had a positive impact?

Have you ever walked away from one of my posts thinking that it had an overall positive impact on the forum?

Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:14 pm

Every post I've ever made here deserves a Hugo, a Pullitzer, and any other award they give writers these days.

Tearling · Post by **Tearling** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:24 pm #645005

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:14 pm Every post I've ever made here deserves a Hugo, a Pullitzer, and any other award they give writers these days.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:53 am #645008

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:33 am
Mothblocks wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:00 am
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:34 am
Super Aggro Crag as funny as they are would have been banned 600 times by now if this rule was actually enforced as a standard equally.
Funny you say that, because I placed Crag on post approval on the coding subforum for this exact same reason several months ago and have been very happy with the results. Been meaning to lift it.

Edit: This exact reason being "general toxicity", not server tribalism
Got you to leak a ban, conduct being sent to (other) headmins. I always win in the end as usual.

this wasn't a headmin ban, it was placed by the headcoders

iwishforducks · Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:02 am

Tearling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:58 pm
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:59 am there has not been one time that ive walked away thinking that one of massa’s forum posts has had an overall positive impact on the forum. this is not to say that every post of theirs i feel is negative, but it’s gotten to the point where i dont even read their posts even if it’s in a reply chain
While I agree with this, is it normal to walk away from anyone's forum posts thinking it had a positive impact?

Have you ever walked away from one of my posts thinking that it had an overall positive impact on the forum?

read the next sentence

Tearling · Post by **Tearling** » Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:49 am #645012

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:02 am
Tearling wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:58 pm
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:59 am there has not been one time that ive walked away thinking that one of massa’s forum posts has had an overall positive impact on the forum. this is not to say that every post of theirs i feel is negative, but it’s gotten to the point where i dont even read their posts even if it’s in a reply chain
While I agree with this, is it normal to walk away from anyone's forum posts thinking it had a positive impact?

Have you ever walked away from one of my posts thinking that it had an overall positive impact on the forum?
read the next sentence

Did you make a mistake when reading my post? I was asking if it's normal to come away from any post thinking it has a positive impact on the forum, it has nothing to do with "this is not to say that every post of theirs i feel is negative, but it’s gotten to the point where i dont even read their posts even if it’s in a reply chain"