Captain gets banned for making a prisoner play Russian Roulette

[ekaterina]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34358

A month-long ban for this? That is beyond insane. Unless he's done stuff like this before, all this should result in is "hey, you can't do that, don't round remove people who haven't committed capital crimes" and maybe a standard 1 day ban for 1 kill.

[sinfulbliss]

"If you lose you die, and we won't let you be revived." doesn't even sound contrived IMO. Even Timber and Kieth have said that the Captain should have told Lucy that he would not allow her revival afterwards, in no uncertain terms.

To quote Kieth"

We can hark on about how we would interpret it but if they weren't entirely upfront and clear it's easy to see where the confusion came from. When I see death for example I don't assume RR. "I'm going to kill you" I say to the assistants breaking into brig, then I kill them and throw their corpses out. It is fine to punish someone for prevent the revival- but I think that 30 days is a bit much.

It feels more like sinful going off his own opinion of failRP in general.

I think you missed my point. I think they probably should've said this too, but the fact they didn't is less them being an asshole IMO and more them just saying what sounds more natural. Which "you lose you die" does, it just flows better in the scene than "you will be killed and NOT revived (because of course, I'd have to revive you ordinarily, as round removal would be a bit far [this is what's implied which is sorta failRP to me but perhaps necessary failRP])." Miscommunication- but at this point we're repeating ourselves.

[dirk_mcblade]

I don't think anyone should be admin unless they master atmospherics

[dirk_mcblade]

"My answer is x, where x is defined by x^2-3x+2=0.

mama aint raised no bitch"

Guess he's both banned and unbanned until next time he tries to log in.

[sinfulbliss]

He should be held at gunpoint until he gives an INTEGER answer

[TypicalRig]

He should be held at gunpoint until he gives an INTEGER answer

NTA. Timberpoes should've clarified that 1 or 2 means 1 or 2. Why should he assume that 1 or 2 means he has to give an integer answer?

[kinnebian]

"My answer is x, where x is defined by x^2-3x+2=0.

mama aint raised no bitch"

Guess he's both banned and unbanned until next time he tries to log in.

i suck at quadratics so much i have to use the -b formula every time

[massa]

It would be lame and improper under LRP rules, you are not supposed to RR someone just for breaking into the brig once.

I will kill you and leave you there if you start breaking into the brig with what looks like serious intent and so will anyone playing sec.

This expectation is thoroughly baked into the rules and written out that you should, in fact, explicitly expect to die if you start forcing your way into brig or command.

[Timberpoes]

"My answer is x, where x is defined by x^2-3x+2=0.

mama aint raised no bitch"

Guess he's both banned and unbanned until next time he tries to log in.

They played Russian Roulette with a double-barrelled shotgun and pulled both triggers.

Brave.

[dirk_mcblade]

"My answer is x, where x is defined by x^2-3x+2=0.

mama aint raised no bitch"

Guess he's both banned and unbanned until next time he tries to log in.

i suck at quadratics so much i have to use the -b formula every time

You mean the quadratic equation?
How does that mean you suck at them you're literally using the formula for them.

[s5nt]

"My answer is x, where x is defined by x^2-3x+2=0.

mama aint raised no bitch"

Guess he's both banned and unbanned until next time he tries to log in.

i suck at quadratics so much i have to use the -b formula every time

for simple quadratics like this just think of what can add to make b and multiply to make c, in this case -1 and -2 add to make b and multiply to make c, to make it easier you can also list the factors of b out and then go through and check every pair for which one adds to c.

[kinnebian]

"My answer is x, where x is defined by x^2-3x+2=0.

mama aint raised no bitch"

Guess he's both banned and unbanned until next time he tries to log in.

i suck at quadratics so much i have to use the -b formula every time

for simple quadratics like this just think of what can add to make b and multiply to make c, in this case -1 and -2 add to make b and multiply to make c, to make it easier you can also list the factors of b out and then go through and check every pair for which one adds to c.

i can appreciate this method but unfortunately it doesnt work for me personally in m y head so i have more consistency using -b even if it takes longer

[BlueMemesauce]

[chocolate_bickie]

"My answer is x, where x is defined by x^2-3x+2=0.

mama aint raised no bitch"

Guess he's both banned and unbanned until next time he tries to log in.

They played Russian Roulette with a double-barrelled shotgun and pulled both triggers.

Brave.

Instead of a server ban, choose a random half of all roles and ban him from them.

[Turbonerd]

"My answer is x, where x is defined by x^2-3x+2=0.

mama aint raised no bitch"

Guess he's both banned and unbanned until next time he tries to log in.

i suck at quadratics so much i have to use the -b formula every time

You mean the quadratic equation?
How does that mean you suck at them you're literally using the formula for them.

You don't need to use the formula for this case. It's just finding a pair of factors of 2 that also sum up to -3, then multiplying those factors by -1.

[Vekter]

We need to normalize the idea that it's actually okay sometimes to break character if it means you're going to make the situation more interesting or enjoyable for both people involved. For instance, if I kidnap someone and want to put a bomb on them, I don't think there should be a problem with me going, in character, "(OOC: Psst, I'm going to put a bomb on you like in 30 minutes or less, play along!)" and hopefully getting a cooler interaction out of it. If I don't do this, the person might just go straight to sec and say "fuck it, I don't care if they explode me", but if I do, they might be willing to go along with it and do the whole "I'm wired with a bomb, I need you to give me this or I'm going to blow a hole in the station" gimmick.

Other servers have LOOC for this reason but our maintainers don't see any value in it due to us having lower RP requirements, so we kinda have to get around it a little bit. I would never bonk someone for doing something like this, especially if it makes the round more fun.

That being said, back on topic - Timber's right, they should've been specific that they intended to prevent them from being revived in some way.

[kinnebian]

We need to normalize the idea that it's actually okay sometimes to break character if it means you're going to make the situation more interesting or enjoyable for both people involved. For instance, if I kidnap someone and want to put a bomb on them, I don't think there should be a problem with me going, in character, "(OOC: Psst, I'm going to put a bomb on you like in 30 minutes or less, play along!)" and hopefully getting a cooler interaction out of it. If I don't do this, the person might just go straight to sec and say "fuck it, I don't care if they explode me", but if I do, they might be willing to go along with it and do the whole "I'm wired with a bomb, I need you to give me this or I'm going to blow a hole in the station" gimmick.

Other servers have LOOC for this reason but our maintainers don't see any value in it due to us having lower RP requirements, so we kinda have to get around it a little bit. I would never bonk someone for doing something like this, especially if it makes the round more fun.

That being said, back on topic - Timber's right, they should've been specific that they intended to prevent them from being revived in some way.

another reason why LOOC would be good

[conrad]

Breaking character, hell even breaking rules, is sometimes good, sometimes fine, as a treat.

The problem is when you piss off at least one other person.

[Vekter]

another reason why LOOC would be good

I'll ask them again, but last time it was brought up oranges was pretty adamant that he doesn't want it. That was in 2018 though, so maybe his mind has changed? Mothblocks seems to be against it as well but I haven't actually talked to her yet, so I'll see what she says.

[TheLoLSwat]

We need to normalize the idea that it's actually okay sometimes to break character if it means you're going to make the situation more interesting or enjoyable for both people involved. For instance, if I kidnap someone and want to put a bomb on them, I don't think there should be a problem with me going, in character, "(OOC: Psst, I'm going to put a bomb on you like in 30 minutes or less, play along!)" and hopefully getting a cooler interaction out of it. If I don't do this, the person might just go straight to sec and say "fuck it, I don't care if they explode me", but if I do, they might be willing to go along with it and do the whole "I'm wired with a bomb, I need you to give me this or I'm going to blow a hole in the station" gimmick.

Other servers have LOOC for this reason but our maintainers don't see any value in it due to us having lower RP requirements, so we kinda have to get around it a little bit. I would never bonk someone for doing something like this, especially if it makes the round more fun.

That being said, back on topic - Timber's right, they should've been specific that they intended to prevent them from being revived in some way.

breaking character is a cardinal sin ngl…. it just feels tacky to have to “play along” OOCly when it wouldnt make sense to and doubly so if you guys need to talk about it beforehand. It can be hard sticking to a characters wants and needs when you have OOC wants but its so worth it. Seeing someone genuinely panic as a hostage (or in this scenario, bomb hostage) would be priceless. Seeing them go “fuck this” and run into sec to be a human frag grenade also sounds memorable, but wouldn these moments be watered down if i have to verify oocly with the person?

► Show Spoiler

disclaimer: vekter is probably talking from a more MRP and i am giving an LRP perspective, and LOOC seems like a good idea on mrp atleast

[TypicalRig]

We need to normalize the idea that it's actually okay sometimes to break character if it means you're going to make the situation more interesting or enjoyable for both people involved. For instance, if I kidnap someone and want to put a bomb on them, I don't think there should be a problem with me going, in character, "(OOC: Psst, I'm going to put a bomb on you like in 30 minutes or less, play along!)" and hopefully getting a cooler interaction out of it. If I don't do this, the person might just go straight to sec and say "fuck it, I don't care if they explode me", but if I do, they might be willing to go along with it and do the whole "I'm wired with a bomb, I need you to give me this or I'm going to blow a hole in the station" gimmick.

Other servers have LOOC for this reason but our maintainers don't see any value in it due to us having lower RP requirements, so we kinda have to get around it a little bit. I would never bonk someone for doing something like this, especially if it makes the round more fun.

That being said, back on topic - Timber's right, they should've been specific that they intended to prevent them from being revived in some way.

breaking character is a cardinal sin ngl…. it just feels tacky to have to “play along” OOCly when it wouldnt make sense to and doubly so if you guys need to talk about it beforehand. It can be hard sticking to a characters wants and needs when you have OOC wants but its so worth it. Seeing someone genuinely panic as a hostage (or in this scenario, bomb hostage) would be priceless. Seeing them go “fuck this” and run into sec to be a human frag grenade also sounds memorable, but wouldn these moments be watered down if i have to verify oocly with the person?

► Show Spoiler

disclaimer: vekter is probably talking from a more MRP and i am giving an LRP perspective, and LOOC seems like a good idea on mrp atleast

cringe take. if you're breaking character to make absolutely sure what your doing is okay with a player you're both covering your own ass and being kind enough to take into consideration the feelings of the other. "wahhh my rp feels inorganic because my actions are a bit of a grey area and I need to pause for a few seconds to check with them that they're cool with it!!!" if you're causing this kind of trouble where your actions wouldn't already be allowed by the rules, maybe you just shouldn't act like this if you won't bother making sure the person is fine with it...

[WineAllWine]

MY GOD I can't believe we're still having this intensely boring conversation...there are no interesting takes in this thread.

[oranges]

we should remove felinids on MRP only.

[sinfulbliss]

We need to normalize the idea that it's actually okay sometimes to break character if it means you're going to make the situation more interesting or enjoyable for both people involved. For instance, if I kidnap someone and want to put a bomb on them, I don't think there should be a problem with me going, in character, "(OOC: Psst, I'm going to put a bomb on you like in 30 minutes or less, play along!)" and hopefully getting a cooler interaction out of it. If I don't do this, the person might just go straight to sec and say "fuck it, I don't care if they explode me", but if I do, they might be willing to go along with it and do the whole "I'm wired with a bomb, I need you to give me this or I'm going to blow a hole in the station" gimmick.

Other servers have LOOC for this reason but our maintainers don't see any value in it due to us having lower RP requirements, so we kinda have to get around it a little bit. I would never bonk someone for doing something like this, especially if it makes the round more fun.

That being said, back on topic - Timber's right, they should've been specific that they intended to prevent them from being revived in some way.

breaking character is a cardinal sin ngl…. it just feels tacky to have to “play along” OOCly when it wouldnt make sense to and doubly so if you guys need to talk about it beforehand. It can be hard sticking to a characters wants and needs when you have OOC wants but its so worth it. Seeing someone genuinely panic as a hostage (or in this scenario, bomb hostage) would be priceless. Seeing them go “fuck this” and run into sec to be a human frag grenade also sounds memorable, but wouldn these moments be watered down if i have to verify oocly with the person?

► Show Spoiler

disclaimer: vekter is probably talking from a more MRP and i am giving an LRP perspective, and LOOC seems like a good idea on mrp atleast

cringe take. if you're breaking character to make absolutely sure what your doing is okay with a player you're both covering your own ass and being kind enough to take into consideration the feelings of the other. "wahhh my rp feels inorganic because my actions are a bit of a grey area and I need to pause for a few seconds to check with them that they're cool with it!!!" if you're causing this kind of trouble where your actions wouldn't already be allowed by the rules, maybe you just shouldn't act like this if you won't bother making sure the person is fine with it...

I 1000% agree with Lisa here. "Covering your own ass" by saying cringe OOC-tangential shit and "confirming" things to be absolutely completely positive you can't possibly get in trouble for it, is pussy shit, makes the RP inauthentic, and I would absolutely rather risk fucking up as this captain did and getting a note if it means you get to play freely with authentic, natural stories being formed.

"Not sure if the gods will like that"

"Isn't that against company policy?"

"Centcom will be up my ass for that"

Anyone who says these sorts of things should be shot to Mars and banished to 300 years of Citadel.

Also Murmic you're not exactly the best person to speak on this since... You often say things like "he overescalated" and "killbaiting" and other OOC-tangential terms IC, which is failRP. I think you're desensitized to it.

[Vekter]

breaking character is a cardinal sin ngl…. it just feels tacky to have to “play along” OOCly when it wouldnt make sense to and doubly so if you guys need to talk about it beforehand. It can be hard sticking to a characters wants and needs when you have OOC wants but its so worth it. Seeing someone genuinely panic as a hostage (or in this scenario, bomb hostage) would be priceless. Seeing them go “fuck this” and run into sec to be a human frag grenade also sounds memorable, but wouldn these moments be watered down if i have to verify oocly with the person?

► Show Spoiler

disclaimer: vekter is probably talking from a more MRP and i am giving an LRP perspective, and LOOC seems like a good idea on mrp atleast

I think we've just got different mindsets. I know that I'd find myself well at home on a more RP-centric or even HRP server, but I like the goofy bullshit that comes with /tg/'s brand of MRP too much to leave.

another reason why LOOC would be good

I talked to Mothblocks, she says she's seen it used way more for doing shit like going "lmao that was funny" than actually planning out RP or explaining mechanics and it tends to take her out of immersion which, yeah, I get that.

[sinfulbliss]

I talked to Mothblocks, she says she's seen it used way more for doing shit like going "lmao that was funny" than actually planning out RP or explaining mechanics and it tends to take her out of immersion which, yeah, I get that.

man the whole POINT of LOOC is that it keeps you immersed, you don't have to be doing LOOC-shit IC which really breaks the immersion
not like she has to use it

[RedBaronFlyer]

we should remove felinids on MRP only.

The fate of Manuel if Felinids were ever removed:

[Lacran]

Furries basically bankroll this community

[Fren256]

Furries basically bankroll this community

This is why we should nuke rule 8, imagine all the extra donations the server would get

[dirk_mcblade]

Furries basically bankroll this community

I tried to fight against big fur and basically the response I got was that for the sum of money required I might as well start my own server.

[TypicalRig]

a lot of average sinfulbliss scenario quotes that don't actually happen

there's no fundamental difference between saying something doesn't vibe with me in looc and as a character other than making it clear that maybe the situation is only fun for you. If you can't detach yourself for a split second and it ruins your authenticity that's a failure as you as a player, not the system lol.

also you only gave example scenario that has to do with character breaks that have to do with rule concerns rather than scenarios where you know you are breaking the rules but think the character is fine with it which usually creates less problems. we definitely have players who treat each other more harshly because both parties OOCly know they're fine with it (Lukas and Gor-Rok) but you wouldn't know this with the average player at first interaction.

EDIT: also why is the guy who talked to me about how weird this mechanic is to me in IC and then asked why I'm suddenly from the "manuel sector" when I joked back "What do you mean?" going on some rp purity/authenticity tirade? I need to stop taking you seriously when you argue takes completely opposite to your playstyle.

[dendydoom]

as a cringe roleplayer i personally don't like the idea of looc. i've played downstreams/hrp servers where it's used and it detracted quite heavily from the improvisational nature of the game.

my main concern is that it hands too much OOC fiat to players to micromanage ongoing IC situations. rolling with the punches and making sense of nonsensical situations is a big part of the game, and oftentimes half-baked information and uninformed choices act as the catalyst for a lot of interesting and unexpected scenarios that turn into memorable stories. with looc this blurs the line too much between giving consent to something which is unclear and ultimately vetting and gatekeeping people's contributions to the IC space by giving people the power to commentate and referee what is happening as it happens in an OOC way in order to sway IC decisions.

a big part of engaging with an improvisational space is also relinquishing control of situations to allow them to develop organically. with looc it's a safety net that allows players to combat against rp situations which they don't like, and i feel that this goes against the intended experience of the game in a lot of ways. you should not be afraid of stepping out of your comfort zone, and allowing people to dissuade situations from happening by leveraging looc to argue their case in an OOC way is something i wouldn't like to see.

people get tunnel vision over this sort of thing. the beauty of this game is the narratives that emerge from the chaos of so many interacting systems. if you restrict that range of expression down into a handful of rote choices either as a reaction to mechanics or as a reaction to rp input that you don't like then you're ultimately fucking yourself over and depriving yourself of the intended experience.

i much prefer things to remain IC as much as possible. breaking kayfabe is something i sincerely hate doing unless it's absolutely 100% necessary. obviously not everyone feels this way, and looc forms a large part of hrp servers where people enjoy that sort of environment - i would just argue that mrp is too different to that for it to be compatible.

we also already have rules that allow people to use metagame/OOC terminology to teach people the game, so this is already something that shouldn't be punished when it's being done appropriately.

[sinfulbliss]

a lot of average sinfulbliss scenario quotes that don't actually happen

there's no fundamental difference between saying something doesn't vibe with me in looc and as a character other than making it clear that maybe the situation is only fun for you. If you can't detach yourself for a split second and it ruins your authenticity that's a failure as you as a player, not the system lol.

also you only gave example scenario that has to do with character breaks that have to do with rule concerns rather than scenarios where you know you are breaking the rules but think the character is fine with it which usually creates less problems. we definitely have players who treat each other more harshly because both parties OOCly know they're fine with it (Lukas and Gor-Rok) but you wouldn't know this with the average player at first interaction.

EDIT: also why is the guy who talked to me about how weird this mechanic is to me in IC and then asked why I'm suddenly from the "manuel sector" when I joked back "What do you mean?" going on some rp purity/authenticity tirade? I need to stop taking you seriously when you argue takes completely opposite to your playstyle.

1. I am able to do the OOC “vibe check” but would rather not. I prefer to have a natural story where both players’ feelings are expressed purely IC to keep things immersive, raw, and unchoreographed.

2. Nitpicking. Character breaks dealing with rule concerns (your favorite type) are even more cringe than character breaks for OOC consent. Playfights are usually between friends so the consent is implicit.

3. There’s a difference between idle chatter about mechanics and a legitimate story that requires immersive RP. I don’t need to think everything out your mouth has to be roleplay to still argue for preserving some sense of spontaneity in actual RP stories.

[RedBaronFlyer]

I get why we don't have looc but at the same time it's super annoying having to say stuff like "press the little 'z' button on the side of the destination tagger" instead of just saying "press z on that"

[dendydoom]

I get why we don't have looc but at the same time it's super annoying having to say stuff like "press the little 'z' button on the side of the destination tagger" instead of just saying "press z on that"

this is allowed my dear friend c:

There is an exception for OOC in IC where terms like 'clickdrag X to Y, or look for the tab' is used to help a player.

the way i see it is like when you're playing metal gear solid, a game lauded for its highly immersive story or whatever, but the characters will stare down the camera lens and just tell you to crouch by pressing X and it just works. (this is purely an assumption, i actually haven't played these games that much...!)

EDIT: a minor anecdote that came to mind: when i first played tgmc i got around this "issue" by approaching someone and saying "if this shotgun were hypothetically controlled by a keyboard, what button would i press to rack it?" and they enjoyed that very much.

[conrad]

the way i see it is like when you're playing metal gear solid, a game lauded for its highly immersive story or whatever, but the characters will stare down the camera lens and just tell you to crouch by pressing X and it just works. (this is purely an assumption, i actually haven't played these games that much...!)

This is the best fucking example I've ever seen.

For reference, the dialogue literally is:
"Colonel, can you hear me?"
"What's the situation"
"Looks like the elevator on the back is the only way up"
"Understood. If you need to talk to me, hit me on this frequency.
When you wanna use the codec, push the select button.
When we need to contact you, you'll hear your codec beep.
When you hear that beep, push the select button."

[Timberpoes]

the way i see it is like when you're playing metal gear solid, a game lauded for its highly immersive story or whatever, but the characters will stare down the camera lens and just tell you to crouch by pressing X and it just works. (this is purely an assumption, i actually haven't played these games that much...!)

This is the best fucking example I've ever seen.

For reference, the dialogue literally is:
"Colonel, can you hear me?"
"What's the situation"
"Looks like the elevator on the back is the only way up"
"Understood. If you need to talk to me, hit me on this frequency.
When you wanna use the codec, push the select button.
When we need to contact you, you'll hear your codec beep.
When you hear that beep, push the select button."

"In any case, you should contact Meryl by Codec. Wasn't her frequency written on the back of the CD case?"

Spoiler:

[Drag]

Man I dropped out of college so I DIDNT have to see math

[TypicalRig]

Man I dropped out of college so I DIDNT have to see math

gonna have to purposely get noted by drag solely to make a math based appeal

[Fren256]

I didn't understand Timber's last response in the appeal, until I found this:

Played Russian Roulette with then-Headmin Timberpoes on the Forums as part of a ban appeal. Gave a smartass answer and simultaneously won and lost, reaping the fruits of said smartassery. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34358

Something something taste of his on medicine.

[Archie700]

I like how after he got perma'd he didn't apologize and left it standing