Bottom post of the previous page:
The round barely ended and you're already making an appeal chillviewtopic.php?f=7&t=34605
Bottom post of the previous page:
The round barely ended and you're already making an appeal chillyou’re allowed to put it in the threat proper since you were involved, go for itnickup9 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:29 pmIf the primary issue in the ban is becoming the disobedience of my orders to Roentgen then this ban’s lost its merit, and I’ve likley fucked up massively.Timberpoes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:51 pm
Escaping from perma almost always allows escalation to execution. We can home in more closely on Maia's choice to ignore the HoS, however...
While there were some tactical considerations, such as not pissing off the AI and keeping focus on revs, I was mostly concerned with whether or not re-ed would have been lawful (in terms or rules and policy, not space law) or not.
However it seems that the rules are okay with what Roentgen did in regards to killing escaping prisoners during a revolution. And going through the logs the prisoners were planning to breakout and abuse law 1, plus a borg pulled a prisoner away from Roentgen without any cause or orders, it seems? This might have caused Roentgen to use more direct action. Either way in terms of policy their actions seem to be OK. So my concerns with policy and rules was entierly mistaken.
Even tactically my order was incorrect looking back at it, cause the traitor that was perma’d had some means, but especially motive, to raise hell for Sec and would have had they not been caught. The other two, maybe not as much motive, but they could still have been threats.
While the AI would have been pissed the prisoners were going to use Asimov against sec anyways, and maybe Roentgen cottoned onto that while I didn’t, since I was at cargo securing it. Therefore for safety’s sake getting them out of the picture, then possibly reviving them after the revolution, would be more tactically sound.
Tldr: I’m pretty sure this one’s on me, I fucked up and gave a bad instruction that shouldn’t have been followed to begin with. Wonder if I should toss this in the ban thread proper?
this is why i said it reminded me of my secbans on fulp. on fulp even if you have 3 cuffed cultists with a dead chaplain, a bombed cargo, and see the HoS being mauled outside of brig, you cant lethal them or kill them without captain permission. that’s right, even if the captain has been saccedKendrickorium wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:15 pm when exactly are you supposed to contact the hos to get permission to execute escaping perma prisoners during a revolution
do admins not understand what executive decisions are
I don't think you can place any weight of this ban on yourself. You may indeed have fucked up and given a suboptimal order in a stressful situation, but would that not be expected sometimes from a head of security in character? Following this logic, would it not make sense for a warden who is in a similar stressful situation to disobey said orders and do something rash? And to me at least, that's justification enough for the actions that happened. "Emergent storytelling" and all that.nickup9 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:29 pmIf the primary issue in the ban is becoming the disobedience of my orders to Roentgen then this ban’s lost its merit, and I’ve likley fucked up massively.Timberpoes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:51 pm
Escaping from perma almost always allows escalation to execution. We can home in more closely on Maia's choice to ignore the HoS, however...
While there were some tactical considerations, such as not pissing off the AI and keeping focus on revs, I was mostly concerned with whether or not re-ed would have been lawful (in terms or rules and policy, not space law) or not.
However it seems that the rules are okay with what Roentgen did in regards to killing escaping prisoners during a revolution. And going through the logs the prisoners were planning to breakout and abuse law 1, plus a borg pulled a prisoner away from Roentgen without any cause or orders, it seems? This might have caused Roentgen to use more direct action. Either way in terms of policy their actions seem to be OK. So my concerns with policy and rules was entierly mistaken.
Even tactically my order was incorrect looking back at it, cause the traitor that was perma’d had some means, but especially motive, to raise hell for Sec and would have had they not been caught. The other two, maybe not as much motive, but they could still have been threats.
While the AI would have been pissed the prisoners were going to use Asimov against sec anyways, and maybe Roentgen cottoned onto that while I didn’t, since I was at cargo securing it. Therefore for safety’s sake getting them out of the picture, then possibly reviving them after the revolution, would be more tactically sound.
Tldr: I’m pretty sure this one’s on me, I fucked up and gave a bad instruction that shouldn’t have been followed to begin with. Wonder if I should toss this in the ban thread proper?
firstly, thank you for posting this - it's insightful, honest and massively helpful. as others have pointed out, you could absolutely put this into the appeal thread as it's pertinent and helpful information.nickup9 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:29 pmIf the primary issue in the ban is becoming the disobedience of my orders to Roentgen then this ban’s lost its merit, and I’ve likley fucked up massively.Timberpoes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:51 pm
Escaping from perma almost always allows escalation to execution. We can home in more closely on Maia's choice to ignore the HoS, however...
While there were some tactical considerations, such as not pissing off the AI and keeping focus on revs, I was mostly concerned with whether or not re-ed would have been lawful (in terms or rules and policy, not space law) or not.
However it seems that the rules are okay with what Roentgen did in regards to killing escaping prisoners during a revolution. And going through the logs the prisoners were planning to breakout and abuse law 1, plus a borg pulled a prisoner away from Roentgen without any cause or orders, it seems? This might have caused Roentgen to use more direct action. Either way in terms of policy their actions seem to be OK. So my concerns with policy and rules was entierly mistaken.
Even tactically my order was incorrect looking back at it, cause the traitor that was perma’d had some means, but especially motive, to raise hell for Sec and would have had they not been caught. The other two, maybe not as much motive, but they could still have been threats.
While the AI would have been pissed the prisoners were going to use Asimov against sec anyways, and maybe Roentgen cottoned onto that while I didn’t, since I was at cargo securing it. Therefore for safety’s sake getting them out of the picture, then possibly reviving them after the revolution, would be more tactically sound.
Tldr: I’m pretty sure this one’s on me, I fucked up and gave a bad instruction that shouldn’t have been followed to begin with. Wonder if I should toss this in the ban thread proper?
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
MrStonedOne wrote:I always read dendy's walls of text
this kind of sardonicism isn't helpful to the discourse, please chill outJustice12354 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:51 pm Oh noooo... An Admin Candidate did something I disagree with! /tg/ is lost and the administrative team just can't understand simple concepts!! Wait... Are you telling me some admins are showing disapproval of the ban? BULLSHIT!!!
It points out some pretty important points without pointing at no one in specific and I'm confident that it managed to pass the message. Just because it doesn't push your view, it doesn't mean it's not helpful. Also, I'm chillSuper Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:13 pmthis kind of sardonicism isn't helpful to the discourse, please chill outJustice12354 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:51 pm Oh noooo... An Admin Candidate did something I disagree with! /tg/ is lost and the administrative team just can't understand simple concepts!! Wait... Are you telling me some admins are showing disapproval of the ban? BULLSHIT!!!
world's least chill administratorJustice12354 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:25 pmIt points out some pretty important points without pointing at no one in specific and I'm confident that it managed to pass the message. Just because it doesn't push your view, it doesn't mean it's not helpful. Also, I'm chillSuper Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:13 pmthis kind of sardonicism isn't helpful to the discourse, please chill outJustice12354 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:51 pm Oh noooo... An Admin Candidate did something I disagree with! /tg/ is lost and the administrative team just can't understand simple concepts!! Wait... Are you telling me some admins are showing disapproval of the ban? BULLSHIT!!!
I'm extremely heated. Anyone please bring me a cooler!
Absolutely! As the other forumites have mentioned, since you were an involved party (the HoS whose orders were bypassed) you can provide more insight and context into the shift and what Maia got banned for.
Justice12354 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:28 pmI'm extremely heated. Anyone please bring me a cooler!
That's a huuuuge can. Cheers!EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:39 pmJustice12354 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:28 pmI'm extremely heated. Anyone please bring me a cooler!heres a cold spriteSpoiler:
Ah, I appreciate the elaborated-on terminology. Honestly, there have been rounds as a secoff where prisoners randomly escape perma and I just want to beat them to death, so I genuinely and truly get it.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:17 amI was a bit unclear, I didn’t mean valid as in SS13 lingo, I meant valid as in security is authorized to validly execute escaped perma prisoners (I’m fairly sure), particularly in cases where it’s impractical or impossible to arrest all of them.Cheshify wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:28 amValid isn't really a thing on MRP, and executions should usually be authorized by HOS/Cap outside of very extreme circumstancessinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:24 am Fulptier ban, reminds me of the secbans I’d get on Fulp.
It’s not playing-to-win to choose the ONLY sensible option in the situation. People in perma are almost always also valid for execution, that’s why spacelaw usually says “perma/capital punishment” as options.
If there’s a revolution you don’t have time to fuck around with perma prisoners escaping, and besides, escaping perma itself makes you valid for execution I’m pretty sure??
If you ask me, a rev round in which three perma prisoners escape, one of whom is a tot and the other two of whom are bad enough to get perma, is a situation where lethal force is 100% authorized.
That's fair, that was kinda rude of me. My apologies.EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:53 pmfuck you tooVekter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:58 pm Maia appeals every ban she gets because she hopes she'll get lucky and the headmins will overturn it, not because there's any actual ground to stand on regarding whether or not she deserved to be banned.
I guess we'll see the facts on this one when Isratosh gets a chance to post logs, but I'm not hopeful.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
I don't know, I’m not a fan of the ban first, ask questions later mentality. Context should be fully obtained and all angles taken into consideration before doling out a weeklong ban.
I'll be real with you, if I got this ban viewtopic.php?f=34&t=33374&p=665249 I'd be actively appealing every single ban/note I got afterwards in an attempt to keep my record down because that ban was completely atrocious and very much a "notes are a punishment" moment.Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:58 pm Maia appeals every ban she gets because she hopes she'll get lucky and the headmins will overturn it, not because there's any actual ground to stand on regarding whether or not she deserved to be banned.
I guess we'll see the facts on this one when Isratosh gets a chance to post logs, but I'm not hopeful.
E: This was rude and I shouldn't have said it, I apologize to Maia on the next page.
Holy shit I forgot it was upheld. what an L ruling. this is why you can’t just elect status quo you gotta have at LEAST 2/3 headmins as “shake it up” headmins to make the hard calls and piss off some of the team in the processBrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:59 pm E: Especially considering this ban was UPHELD lmao.
That upheld pissed off a few of the admin team as well. It was even mentioned in Rave's headmin candidate thread last election.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:51 pmHoly shit I forgot it was upheld. what an L ruling. this is why you can’t just elect status quo you gotta have at LEAST 2/3 headmins as “shake it up” headmins to make the hard calls and piss off some of the team in the processBrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:59 pm E: Especially considering this ban was UPHELD lmao.
God, that thread has been discussed to death by now, but I really feel conflicted on it. I still think Maia holds at least a little responsibility as the situation would have never happened if she never built it, but I also acknowledge that building it isn't explicitly against the rules and she can't really be held responsible for the actions of others.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:51 pmHoly shit I forgot it was upheld. what an L ruling. this is why you can’t just elect status quo you gotta have at LEAST 2/3 headmins as “shake it up” headmins to make the hard calls and piss off some of the team in the processBrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:59 pm E: Especially considering this ban was UPHELD lmao.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
I know for certain I would have 100% blasted their ass and moved on, I've done it earlier in revs and for less.Boris wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:13 pm I dunno about you but if I was in Maia's shoes I would probably have done the exact same thing. If security cannot contain you for your punishment for whatever reason, be it an utter lack of suitable holding areas, or you having a way to cleanly and efficently get out of their grasp, them killing you becomes very reasonable very fast.
also does anyone know where the fuck people thinking the HoS has any right to say who does and who does not get executed came from??? i'm like 94% sure that that's the captain's job and theirs alone???
There's a rule 3 precedent under chain of command:
Following this any member of security can perform an execution, but officers and wardens should contact the HoS for permission, and the HoS should contact the Captain for permission but it isn't mandatory.The internal chain of command for security is Head of Security > Warden > Officers & Detective.
Security are expected by default to follow the orders of their superiors, especially when determining the punishment of those you apprehend. When determining severe punishments such as permanent incarceration or execution, make an effort to contact a superior if the situation permits it.
After a quick comb through the wiki it turns out that the captain job page, the guide to security page, and space law itself mention that only the captain gets to authorize execution.
Quoting space law, are we? KappaBoris wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:13 pmAfter a quick comb through the wiki it turns out that the captain job page, the guide to security page, and space law itself mention that only the captain gets to authorize execution.
The blurbs in the MRP rules page regarding executions are more recent, and actually in the rules page though, so it's prooooooobably what should be followed?
Someone should probably make a policy discussion thread regarding this tbh.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 2:03 am Marina is actually a very high quality roleplayer, believe it or not, and a pretty fun and good-faith player in my experience.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:50 am No deviations allowed. All must know the meta. All must power the game.
If 3 MRP admins that were popular enough to run for and win headmin, would all vote to uphold it as a dayban, it tells me it’s more likely than not that that’s the majority opinion among whatever circles influence that community.Timberpoes wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:39 pm 4 headmins voting to uphold that ban was a shame, but not a precedent. Because I hope they were a one-off and no future headmin team takes the same approach in the same situation.
Boris wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:13 pmAfter a quick comb through the wiki it turns out that the captain job page, the guide to security page, and space law itself mention that only the captain gets to authorize execution.
The blurbs in the MRP rules page regarding executions are more recent, and actually in the rules page though, so it's prooooooobably what should be followed?
Someone should probably make a policy discussion thread regarding this tbh.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
It kinda feels almost like armchair security for the ban reason. Like, yeah, hypothetically, Maia should have stun batoned them all, detained each one separately, and waited for mindshields. I'm not great at logdiving but I do know (via watching HurrDurrHurr/BrollyButterfinger's stream) that cargo was controlled by revolutionaries at one point, and had several compromised techies waiting for a chance to pounce on the QM prior to actually going through with it.Archie700 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:04 am One of those executed was a confirmed traitor who was the mastermind behind the escape.
This is more than enough for Maia to execute that man, and the others for assisting him.
She's also one person against three, what is she supposed to do at that point, especially with a revolution currently brewing and heads barricaded at security.
It doesn't matter if security wasn't attacked, there was a linked borg with the prisoners, it was only a matter a time before the AI took action to free the prisoners, especially since they got as far as Labor Shuttle Dock before Maia intercepted.
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
Decisions from the admin team are always gonna be inconsistent. Everything is mostofthetimerisms. Ban durations are never set anywhere (the closest thing are permabans and the 1 day per kill thing). Any time I brought this up I got "it's only a gas sim maaaan" or "stop bloating the rules nobody reads them".Lacran wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:08 pm Admins need to get a more coherent metric for reform.
Maia rontegen back when she first started playing was a dumbass, they were clueless and super volatile and got into trouble A LOT, but they did improve. I remember dealing with them when I played HoS and I can definitely affirm a gradual and very noticible improvement. I took some breaks from ss13 and coming back Maia is genuinely one of the most consistent and reliable security players on MRP. They can still get a bit too fired up but the improvement they have made is genuinely impressive. If admins are giong to constantly punish Maia for their history they need to also acknowledge that the quality and conduct of this player is very different to the one a year ago.
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
For some bizarre reason some users see being frustrated by something stupid as a weakness.
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
Users browsing this forum: DeathHasForm, DrAmazing343, Indie-ana Jones, Jacquerel, MagmaExploiter, mindstormy, Screemonster, Stabbystab