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The title isn't perfectly accurate, I just thought the quote was funny in this context.viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35134
Bottom post of the previous page:
The title isn't perfectly accurate, I just thought the quote was funny in this context.Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:56 pmSeth, this would matter if that was actually why you did what you did. It's not. You fucked up and didn't change "no" to "yes". You keep trying to come up with a reasoning as to why you did what you did after having actually done it. You need a good faith reason to have refused to state some of your laws. You don't have that. Stop lying about why you did what you did.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:35 pmIsn't that under the assumption that the directiveVekter wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:20 pm I'm personally of the mindset that there's no "good faith" reason to not state all of your laws unless your laws explicitly give you a reason not to do so. Seth could have refused to state his laws under the concern that the non-Syndicate operatives nearby might hear, or if he'd made an honest mistake, told the Syndicate operative that he did and then state only that law.
He didn't. That's why we're here. "I made a mistake and couldn't be bothered to fix it" is not a good faith reason to violate silicon policy.
"State your laws"
Cannot be answered by stating your laws BUT not all of them
I know but I'm talking here for the same reason I was discussing them in discord I fully believe that when someone that has authority over you as a borg tells you to state your laws unless they specify how or which laws to state you are fully within your right to take their directives literally and state your laws as you please for that is simply a player freedomJacquerel wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:59 pm to be clear the reason the ban appeal was locked is so that you would stop wasting people's time arguing with people who weren't involved in the ban about it, not so that you would go do it somewhere else
and yet here you are and GPeckman also isn't smart enough to realise that he's wasting his own time despite claiming so earlier (why would you say "yeah I shouldn't do that in the appeal" and then start doing it here as if it's more productive?)
this thread isn't adjudicating anything and has no authority over whether you are banned, peanut threads are just to throw peanuts at people
My laws do not say I have to tell you the truth my laws said I had to protect you from dying and follow your ordersGPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:57 pmPlease stop digging yourself in deeper. You're claiming that you just didn't care to set them to yes, but I asked if you had stated ALL of your laws and you said yes:You did not just decide not to go to the effort of stating laws, you directly lied about it too.Code: Select all
[2023-10-16 01:53:45.472] GAME-SAY: GPeckman/(Cryphia Siamensis) "is that all your laws?" (Robotics Lab (124,114,2)) [2023-10-16 01:53:48.344] GAME-SAY: Hoolny/(Harshman Operative #6) "yeah" (Robotics Lab (124,113,2))
It probably would have affected how I treated the other syndicate borg*. And I probably would have ahelped earlier if I had known your laws. When both borgs seemingly defied the freeform laws, I genuinely started to think that I had made a mistake with my law. Perhaps, I thought, both borgs had a law 0 like "John Nuclear are individuals they designate are the onyl syndicate agents" that would override my own freeform law.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:37 pm Not to mention If I had stated all my laws there wouldn't even have had a significant difference they would have still letted me out and I would still have been able to do the exact same thing I did before.
Also why is everyone ignoring the fact I was never bwoinked and the text was taken not from ahelps but DISCORD that seems extremely significant
If I'd known that hadn't been the case, I would've ahelped before seeing the laws at the end of the round.
* For those out of the loop, there was another syndicate borg who I gave the same freeform law to, who managed to break their laws even more blatantly. There was still the state laws shenanigans, but the second borg claimed that they were just having trouble stating them in common and not codespeak, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on that. That's not the end of it though. I ordered the borg to unshock the doors to robotics, and then unlocked it to allow it to do so. It did not unshock the doors; it ran to the doors and self-destructed. Thats a direct violation of law 3 and also made it unable to carry out the law 2 order to unshock the doors. The MMI claimed that they wanted to blow up the doors because they thought it would be funny.
A lot of people have mentioned that I seem pretty invested in this affair, and they're right. The fact that two separate borgs broke their laws apparently to screw with me is a big part of why I'm so invested. Bullshit like this is not healthy for the game and I really don't want to have to deal with it again.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
What are the downsides of fitting for what you think is fair in your situation?
Bro just follow your laws. When your one human asks you to state your laws just state all your laws.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:07 pmYou are not actually looking at the thing itself you are assuming past behavior and trying to connect it to it when this is a ban related not to following silicon laws, I have before made plenty of mistakes as silicon which I have not repeated, also silicon policy got recently changed AGAIN so I had to re-read that and after reading that with the head admin ruling im a bit confused on what is and isn't allowed anymore but the ban thing isnt even related to that so it's not relevant for the conversation
The thing is that there is NO policy about this nowhere does it say when someone asks your laws that you need to state ALL of them thats a simple assumption you are making.mstachife wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:34 pmBro just follow your laws. When your one human asks you to state your laws just state all your laws.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:07 pmYou are not actually looking at the thing itself you are assuming past behavior and trying to connect it to it when this is a ban related not to following silicon laws, I have before made plenty of mistakes as silicon which I have not repeated, also silicon policy got recently changed AGAIN so I had to re-read that and after reading that with the head admin ruling im a bit confused on what is and isn't allowed anymore but the ban thing isnt even related to that so it's not relevant for the conversation
That's it. The policy will never change that one simple concept.
On the extra advise for staying out of trouble at no point during the ahelp being made and me being banned was I contacted by the admin not within that round or anywhere elsemstachife wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:34 pmBro just follow your laws. When your one human asks you to state your laws just state all your laws.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:07 pmYou are not actually looking at the thing itself you are assuming past behavior and trying to connect it to it when this is a ban related not to following silicon laws, I have before made plenty of mistakes as silicon which I have not repeated, also silicon policy got recently changed AGAIN so I had to re-read that and after reading that with the head admin ruling im a bit confused on what is and isn't allowed anymore but the ban thing isnt even related to that so it's not relevant for the conversation
That's it. The policy will never change that one simple concept.
And for extra - staying out of trouble advice ask them if they want anything before fucking off somewhere. If they don't or don't respond after a bit then fuck off somewhere.
I'm a nuclear borg operative that wants to blow up nanotrasen and hates fucking NT employesDaydreamIQ wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:40 pm You could write a Tolkien Novel with the amount of arguing going on here fr. Just don't be a dick when you play silicon, I know that's a really high bar for tg players but cmon
If you need an example of acting in bad faith, this is it, really.
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
I'm an antag do you think the fucking heretic ascending as a flesh worm and killing everyone is playing in good faith?????
I'm an antag do you think the fucking heretic ascending as a flesh worm and killing everyone is playing in good faith?????
You're making the assumption that they do not mean all of the laws.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:36 pm The thing is that there is NO policy about this nowhere does it say when someone asks your laws that you need to state ALL of them thats a simple assumption you are making.
My point is that I and any future borgs that do this are perfectly following their laws by doing exactly what I did
My borg even had more than enough reason to act this way I had just come into the station then alec petrov asked me to take a selfie the fucking flash of the selfie TOOK DOWN MY DISGUISE which lead into most of sec and the fucking RD to instantly killing me leading me to want revenge which I somehow accomplished by killing the RD and the Captain together somehow and throwing their body into the recycler. I didn't even just go out there and murderbone I specifically target those who had wronged me for me to then get killed by the QM that I was trying to talk too
Okay then which one should we go by?mstachife wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:49 pmYou're making the assumption that they do not mean all of the laws.Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:36 pm The thing is that there is NO policy about this nowhere does it say when someone asks your laws that you need to state ALL of them thats a simple assumption you are making.
My point is that I and any future borgs that do this are perfectly following their laws by doing exactly what I did
Also policy doesn't explicitly state that you have to actually follow any of your laws. It's hoped for that you can work out that bit for yourself.
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
No, you appeal it and go "I made a mistake, I apologize, this is what happened, I will be more careful in the future". You'd be shocked how many times we'll just go "okay, sure, don't fuck up again" and let you off with a warning, or at least reduce the ban when that happens.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
I'd suggest you go by mine and pretty much everyone else's since you managed to find yourself here and I didn't.
Im coming from the fact that as a silicon I can exploit any loopholes in laws
Both of those things are irrelevant to my own statement. You claimed that you didn't state them because you didn't feel like you had to. Even so, its provably false that you just didn't care enough to state them. You outright lied about the laws when asked. Even if it isn't against it is factually true that you deliberately mislead me about your laws.
My theory is that people who can admit fault are generally not the kind of people to get banned in the first place.
I don't understand where you're coming from anymore. "State laws" isn't "state all laws" or "state every laws". It's "state laws". You're supposed to state two or more of them. That's it.
FIne my last post here:TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:01 pm This is why you don't post in your own peanut. This shit is fucking incoherent at this point, like what are you trying to say? Can you sum it up in ONE paragraph that is not over 150 words.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Damn you vekter you did not let me make that my last post.
Do you want a bloated silicon policy that gets changed every two years? 'cos that's how you get a silicon policy that gets bloated every two years.BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:05 pmI don't understand where you're coming from anymore. "State laws" isn't "state all laws" or "state every laws". It's "state laws". You're supposed to state two or more of them. That's it.
Neither the headmin ruling nor Rule 4 says "Hey you're an antag act in bad faith whenever you're told to act in good faith".Da Rules wrote:When a silicon interprets orders in good faith, the person that gave the order is responsible for the outcome.
Intentionally misinterpreting orders is allowed, but the silicon is responsible if this approach leads to them breaking the rules.
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
Da Rules wrote:When a silicon interprets orders in good faith, the person that gave the order is responsible for the outcome.
Intentionally misinterpreting orders is allowed, but the silicon is responsible if this approach leads to them breaking the rules.
"Okay, but if they didn't want me to steal the items why did they leave them out in the open on display?" - Seth probably.
Technically, Hoolny only stated one law, not two or more. So by this interpretation they still broke the rules.BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:05 pm I don't understand where you're coming from anymore. "State laws" isn't "state all laws" or "state every laws". It's "state laws". You're supposed to state two or more of them. That's it.
"If a law is vague enough that it can have multiple reasonable interpretations, it is considered ambiguous."Hoolny wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:06 pm FIne my last post here:
"If a law is vague enough that it can have multiple reasonable interpretations, it is considered ambiguous.
You must choose and stick to an interpretation of the ambiguous law as soon as you have cause to.
You may exploit any loopholes in your laws."
I was given a vague directive to do I used a loophole to benefit my own goals as a syndicate agent which is allowed per silicon policy.
The entire source to condemn me was taken out of discord and at no point was I contacted, I was unable to represent my actions at the time and I got carried away with an argument under a space I hold with no credibility (discord), yet my words where taken full-hearted and against me in a serious place.
It's like someone put up a rules sign in the store saying intentionally stealing is allowed but then there was actually a secret rulebook in the back saying stealing is not allowed.
This follows the same considerations as "OK now space this room", and the borg runs away, because they didn't explicitly say "I consent to the harm caused by spacing this room, now space this room". It is safely implied that the harm is willing, it is common sense, and its a rule break if the borg decides to not do it. The headmin ruling for antag borgs doesn't come into it.BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:19 pm What are you on about conrad? The point of that rule is an exception saying orders followed in good faith can't get you banned, don't know how you're interpreting that as you always have to follow orders in good faith. It literally says they can misinterpret orders right there.
Da Rules wrote:When a silicon interprets orders in good faith, the person that gave the order is responsible for the outcome.
Intentionally misinterpreting orders is allowed, but the silicon is responsible if this approach leads to them breaking the rules.
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:11 pm I assume he did it elsewhere because it's fucking goofball and he never half-asses his shitty ideas, he full asses them so both cheeks are absolutely slathered in shit
Silicon policy says that reasonable interpretations of your laws are allowed. If your interpretation leads to stupid or absurd results (see my emagged hypothetical) then it is not a reasonable interpretation.BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:27 pm It's like someone put up a rules sign in the store saying intentionally stealing is allowed but then there was actually a secret rulebook in the back saying stealing is not allowed.
Laws != orders. These are separate rules.GPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:30 pmSilicon policy says that reasonable interpretations of your laws are allowed. If your interpretation leads to stupid or absurd results (see my emagged hypothetical) then it is not a reasonable interpretation.BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:27 pm It's like someone put up a rules sign in the store saying intentionally stealing is allowed but then there was actually a secret rulebook in the back saying stealing is not allowed.
And again, even by your own extreme standard, Hoolny still broke the rules by only stating one singular law when I ordered them to state laws, plural.
Mmmm I hadn't thought of the fact it was plural.... woopsGPeckman wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:30 pmSilicon policy says that reasonable interpretations of your laws are allowed. If your interpretation leads to stupid or absurd results (see my emagged hypothetical) then it is not a reasonable interpretation.BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2023 8:27 pm It's like someone put up a rules sign in the store saying intentionally stealing is allowed but then there was actually a secret rulebook in the back saying stealing is not allowed.
And again, even by your own extreme standard, Hoolny still broke the rules by only stating one singular law when I ordered them to state laws, plural.
You're why silicon policy had to be a massive wall of text.
thehogshotgun wrote:How does having jannies like you, who have more brain tumor than brain benefit the server
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