Awful Dungeon Master In Training, a Manuelmin Story Peanut

[Kendrickorium]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33374

when, when will they learn

[vect0r]

>Gets banned for 4 days
>Appeals
>Admin doubles down
>Escalate to Headmins
>4 days pass
>Headmins agree 4 day ban bad, but keep note

Do you guys think a complaint would be upheld if Maia complained that the ban was unnecessary?

Yeah something felt off about the headmin response that I couldn’t quite put my finger on. Their reasoning is factual but the response left much to desire.

Yeah, rule whatever is meant to punish bad faith actors who keep skirting the rules, then lawyering when getting bwoinked. Maia did neither of those, and now people on MRP are going to be stressed about creatively killing antags, because even if nothing goes wrong, you might get bwoinked and banned.

[vect0r]

Sorry to double post, but when the headmins said how “there were simple things to do like cuff the tot”, in the heat of the moment, you do not think of things like that.

Also, BEING NOTED A LOT IN ATMOS DOESN’T MEAN YOU SHOULD GET NOTES FOR SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN’T BE NOTABLE!

[CPTANT]

“there were simple things to do like cuff the tot”

Who thinks about cuffing someone who is already critical and about to be set ablaze?

[Timberpoes]

I dislike administratively forcing players to play optimally.

In the past I have discouraged admins from bwoinking players when the admin says "they should have done [optimal strategy] instead of [valid but risky/suboptimal strategy]".

It never sat well with me that we on the one hand seek to discourage always playing optimally, while on the other hand we note and even ban players for not playing optimally.

In this case, what would have made for a cooler story?
1. The optimal play of perfectly containing the antag and burning them to death with no further impact on the shift.
2. The sub-optimal play where the antag was, through a string of coincidences and oversights, able to break free in a manner the antag specifically intended to cause maximum chaos, but the player never even considered a possibility.

Would the headmin team reconsider their choice to leave the note/reduced ban in place in this specific instance? It just doesn't seem like it fits.

[kieth4]

Another disappointing decision from this term.

[Ryusenshu]

well thats stupid

[Archie700]

Logs:https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/200024

Attack logs of Maia's actions before shuttle left, battle with Broly highlighted

Code: Select all

[highlight=yellow]01:19:55	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) threw and hit DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with the paper plane (NEWHP: 66)	(168, 65, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:19:56	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) attacked DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 34)	(169, 64, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:19:58	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) attacked DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 25)	(169, 64, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:19:59	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) attacked DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 13)	(169, 64, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:20:00	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) attacked DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 1)	(169, 64, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:20:01	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) attacked DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -11)	(169, 64, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:20:02	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) attacked DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with mechanical toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -23)	(169, 64, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:20:38	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) passive grab (NEWHP: -32.1)	(169, 64, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:20:44	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -33.8)	(163, 64, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:21:30	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) passive grab (NEWHP: -43.4)	(169, 51, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:21:57	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) passive grab (NEWHP: -26.1)	(170, 48, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:22:05	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed Themisors/(Corona U) passive grab (NEWHP: 72.9)	(169, 48, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:22:16	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) passive grab (NEWHP: -6.4)	(170, 48, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:22:29	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) passive grab (NEWHP: -3.9)	(167, 49, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:22:37	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) passive grab (NEWHP: 0.5)	(167, 49, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:22:40	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) has thrown the mechanical toolbox	(164, 49, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:22:40	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) threw and hit DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with the mechanical toolbox (NEWHP: 0.5)	(164, 49, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:22:44	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) passive grab (NEWHP: -11)	(165, 53, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:22:49	ATTACK	DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) pulled from EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) with Corona U (NEWHP: 100)	(168, 49, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:22:51	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) grabbed DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) passive grab (NEWHP: -10.1)	(167, 50, 2)	Departure Lounge[/highlight]
01:25:31	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) shaken NicoDeLuna/(Nico DeLuna) (NEWHP: 98.1)	(167, 49, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:27:12	ATTACK	Glowing Verity/(Box Montoya) bumped into EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) and set them on fire.	(165, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:12	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:16	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:16	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:16	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:16	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:16	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:17	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(166, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:40	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 38, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:40	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 38, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:41	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 38, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:41	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 38, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:48	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:48	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:49	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:49	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:50	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:50	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:50	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:51	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:51	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:51	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:52	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:52	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:52	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:54	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 43, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:56	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 42, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:56	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 42, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:56	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 42, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:56	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 42, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:56	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) attacked Glowing Verity/(Box Montoya) with suspicious looking toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 85)	(165, 42, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:59	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:59	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:59	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 41, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:59	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:27:59	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 40, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:00	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:00	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:01	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 38, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:01	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 38, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:02	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:02	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 36, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:02	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 36, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:08	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 29, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:08	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 29, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:27	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:27	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:32	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 36, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:33	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:33	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 36, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:35	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:35	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:40	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) has thrown the paper plane	(164, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:41	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(165, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
[highlight=yellow]01:28:46	ATTACK	DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) threw and hit EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) with the paper plane (NEWHP: 97.8)	(166, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:53	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 36, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:54	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:55	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 38, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:56	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:28:57	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 36, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:02	ATTACK	DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) threw and hit EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) with the butcher's cleaver (NEWHP: 82.8)	(166, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:02	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) suffered: Rough Abrasion to right leg | Damage: 10 (rolled 24/25.1189)	(163, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:05	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:06	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) has thrown the butcher's cleaver	(162, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:08	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:09	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) has thrown the paper plane	(162, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:10	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:11	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) attacked DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with suspicious looking toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 86.5)	(165, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:12	ATTACK	DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) attacked EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) with paper plane (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 75.7)	(166, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:12	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) attacked DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) with suspicious looking toolbox (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 73)	(166, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:13	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:14	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 33, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:15	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) has thrown the paper plane	(163, 33, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:18	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:20	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 33, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:25	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) has thrown the paper plane	(165, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:26	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) threw and hit *no key*/(Cayenne Sr.) with the paper plane (NEWHP: -103)	(165, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle[/highlight]
01:29:26	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:26	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:27	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 33, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:28	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 33, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:29	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 33, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:29	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 33, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:31	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:31	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 34, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:32	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:32	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:32	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 35, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:33	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 36, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:33	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 36, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:33	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:33	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:33	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:33	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:34	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) has thrown the suspicious looking toolbox	(163, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:34	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) threw and hit Glowing Verity/(Box Montoya) with the suspicious looking toolbox (NEWHP: 41.5)	(163, 37, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:35	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 38, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:36	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:36	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:36	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:36	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:36	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:36	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(164, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:38	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:38	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(163, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:39	ATTACK	EmpressMaia/(Maia Roentgen) slipped on the [synthesized banana peel]	(162, 39, 2)	Emergency Shuttle

Shuttle had left between this time

Code: Select all

01:29:39	SAY	Stiix/(space carp) (DEAD) "HOW"	(164, 32, 2)	Emergency Shuttle
01:29:42	GAME	MrDrPhDExpert/(Bob Macon) is hijacking the emergency shuttle console.	(44, 46, 15)	Emergency Shuttle

Broly had broken out at this time

Code: Select all

01:25:39	EMOTE	Dezupher/(Cobie Stauber) points at Broly Butterfingers	(165, 49, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:26:32	EMOTE	Karbministo/(Heals-The-Wounds) points at Broly Butterfingers	(167, 48, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:26:32	EMOTE	Karbministo/(Heals-The-Wounds) points at Broly Butterfingers	(167, 48, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:26:49	SAY	DurrHurrDurrHurr/(Broly Butterfingers) "I WAS IN THERE AGAINST MY WILL!!"	(168, 52, 2)	Departure Lounge
01:27:04	EMOTE	Karbministo/(Heals-The-Wounds) points at Broly Butterfingers	(167, 42, 2)	Emergency Shuttle

The issue is that Maia was a scientist and Broly was a lawyer. Maia could not have cuffed Broly unless she somehow had wirecuffs at that very moment and Broly could not be expected to have an atmos hardsuit as he was a lawyer.
Maia sent Broly to crit and the only reason Broly lived and was able to break out was because he had a healing virus on which is not detectable without a medical HUD.

There is also the opinion that Maia may not have realised that Broly freed himself until Broly was already in the shuttle and by that time she was slipping on banana peels while being attacked by Broly.

[Armhulen]

I can't believe it but I'm not voting for rave this year based off of this ruling and you might want to consider joining me in that fact.

[kayozz]

Another disappointing decision from this term.

Agreed spookuni isn't doing anything to restore the reputation of Manuel being a hugbox where nothing interesting can happen.

“there were simple things to do like cuff the tot” - Yes because that's not powergaming is it? Having cuffs just 'in case'.

[Epicgamer545]

While Maia has been a repeat offender in the past, I believe this ban is not good at all.

Things /should/ go wrong. Devastating things /should/ happen. Not on purpose, but on accident, is where this game truly shines.

When you build something, and that thing gets exploited by a antagonist, you shouldn’t be held for blame. Even if they are a repeat offender.

[datorangebottle]

I can't believe it but I'm not voting for rave this year based off of this ruling and you might want to consider joining me in that fact.

I'm not voting for rave this year based off of a similar but also very disappointing ban appeal moment.
I'm glad he's actively sabotaging his own campaign by upholding remarkably shit bans.

[Constellado]

Oh god that was not the outcome I was hoping for. Do people with worse note histories get *gasp* MORE NOTES? it's a self perpetuating cycle. A player gets some notes, and they start getting more and more notes for smaller and smaller things, till they get banned. And now we know we cannot have fun with plasma in Manuel ever. Thanks guys.

[Timberpoes]

Oh god that was not the outcome I was hoping for. Do people with worse note histories get *gasp* MORE NOTES? it's a self perpetuating cycle. A player gets some notes, and they start getting more and more notes for smaller and smaller things, till they get banned. And now we know we cannot have fun with plasma in Manuel ever. Thanks guys.

Closer to the truth than you think. I've previously covered my stance on notes as a punishment but suffice to say - They are a punishment and having a note for something makes it more likely you'll get a note next time instead of a warning.

Not that this is inherently unjust as a concept. Rule 7 is a rule that says "if you don't break the rules, sometimes we'll act like you have" and it has to be founded on something to be used. But it creates a snowball effect where 9 borderline IC issues and 1 rule break can end up with 10 notes if your first incident is a rule break and everything else is a borderline IC issue where more notes are piled on top, or 1 note if you have the 9 borderline IC issues first and then fuck up and break a rule after.

But when used capriciously, it leads to a target being placed on a player where the first note opens the floodgates for every other note to follow afterwards. When escalating a ban due to past notes, I always critically analyse them and make sure I actually agree with them. Any notes I don't agree with or see the point of, I tend not to factor in to my decision making.

[kayozz]

A simpler solution to all of this is to just remove anything potentially dangerous from Manuel. So no more funny accidents occur.

[vect0r]

My April fools PR is gonna have to be removing all antags from the game.

[Constellado]

Closer to the truth than you think. I've previously covered my stance on notes as a punishment but suffice to say - They are a punishment and having a note for something makes it more likely you'll get a note next time instead of a warning.

Not that this is inherently unjust as a concept. Rule 7 is a rule that says "if you don't break the rules, sometimes we'll act like you have" and it has to be founded on something to be used. But it creates a snowball effect where 9 borderline IC issues and 1 rule break can end up with 10 notes if your first incident is a rule break and everything else is a borderline IC issue where more notes are piled on top, or 1 note if you have the 9 borderline IC issues first and then fuck up and break a rule after.

But when used capriciously, it leads to a target being placed on a player where the first note opens the floodgates for every other note to follow afterwards. When escalating a ban due to past notes, I always critically analyse them and make sure I actually agree with them. Any notes I don't agree with or see the point of, I tend not to factor in to my decision making.

My opinion here:
I think notes are something that should not be used as a punishment, but as a NOTE. It should be used for players and admins alike to remember what they have done, (and should have learned from!!!) In the past. Player breaks a rule and got a talking to? They should have a note so the player can check on it later and remember. The issue is if there is a note for something, the admins are more likely to note them again for something another player will not get a note (or even a talking to) for. That is what I have an issue with here. This man got a ban and a note for something that most people here is saying is not noteworthy, just because he has lots of notes. The fuck. Yes you should be banned if you are a shitter and get close to breaking the rules, but if it is good for the game, why note them for it?

[Timberpoes]

It's a very esoteric topic. We have a concept of escalating punishments. The lowest form of punishment is a verbal warning, followed by notes, followed by escalating bans.

As long as notes record a player's history, they will always be used to escalate bans. That's just how our administration operates. There's actually a risk by removing notes you end up with admins banning sooner.

But the problem is that we struggle de-escalate back in the opposite direction going from bans to notes to verbal warnings.

[NamelessFairy]

I think Arm's post on Rave's headmin thread sums up this pretty well. "a day ban for what is honestly an ss13 moment at its core".
While I can only comment from a terry perspective stuff like this would be entertaining to see more of. Setting up overly complicated ways to execute the traitors is funny and a lot more interesting then the traditional beat to death out of site of the AI and stuff the corpse in a locker. This may be more optimal but its a hell of a lot less interesting then what happened here.

[BrolyButterfingers]

Super sad about this result, and am probably disabling antag rolling on Manuel over it.

[kayozz]

Super sad about this result, and am probably disabling antag rolling on Manuel over it.

My jokey post about removing antags from Manuel doesn't look so jokey anymore does it?
Tempted to make a new suggestion about removing all dangerous objects, systems and departments from Manuel too. Maybe keep the bar for extended RP and suggest we get rid of toxins, atmos, chemistry, the SM and Virology, just in case (god forbid) some kind of hilarious situation erupts from an interaction with an antag and a non-antag.

[NecromancerAnne]

I dislike administratively forcing players to play optimally.

If there is anything that it results in, it is confusion based on what the rules themselves suggest is the encouraged playstyle. Be suboptimal so you can have a more interesting experience.

This is a highlight, I feel, of how the project clearly is failing to find solid ground and establish a proper baseline. Contradicting rulings mostly resulting in 'less bad things happening' makes me quite worried. I already have been spooked off playing antags on Manuel because it feels like a landmine but I might as well not worry because if I do get banned I'll probably never see it coming in the first place.

[Timberpoes]

If there is anything that it results in, it is confusion based on what the rules themselves suggest is the encouraged playstyle. Be suboptimal so you can have a more interesting experience.

This is a highlight, I feel, of how the project clearly is failing to find solid ground and establish a proper baseline. Contradicting rulings mostly resulting in 'less bad things happening' makes me quite worried. I already have been spooked off playing antags on Manuel because it feels like a landmine but I might as well not worry because if I do get banned I'll probably never see it coming in the first place.

There's a definite vibe where rule over-enforcement stifles player creativity.

Even something as benign as a bwoink followed by a "well I guess it's fine this once, but don't do it again" can shape server culture as players pass on "doing X can get you bwoinked/noted".

Stuff like this never sat well with me. To me, MRP should be a place where more SS13 moments happen than even LRP. The limited power of antags to force the shift forward means the ordinary crew get much more focus, and there's more room for side projects and little hobbies and stuff. A different part of the sandbox becomes available compared to LRP, and that sandbox comes with wild projects both big and small, silly and sensible.

I feel rulings like this lock away a lot of the fun absurdity, behind players being scared of getting one note that turns into a waterfall of notes.

[BrolyButterfingers]

If there is anything that it results in, it is confusion based on what the rules themselves suggest is the encouraged playstyle. Be suboptimal so you can have a more interesting experience.

This is a highlight, I feel, of how the project clearly is failing to find solid ground and establish a proper baseline. Contradicting rulings mostly resulting in 'less bad things happening' makes me quite worried. I already have been spooked off playing antags on Manuel because it feels like a landmine but I might as well not worry because if I do get banned I'll probably never see it coming in the first place.

There's a definite vibe where rule over-enforcement stifles player creativity.

Even something as benign as a bwoink followed by a "well I guess it's fine this once, but don't do it again" can shape server culture as players pass on "doing X can get you bwoinked/noted".

Stuff like this never sat well with me. To me, MRP should be a place where more SS13 moments happen than even LRP. The limited power of antags to force the shift forward means the ordinary crew get much more focus, and there's more room for side projects and little hobbies and stuff. A different part of the sandbox becomes available compared to LRP, and that sandbox comes with wild projects both big and small, silly and sensible.

I feel rulings like this lock away a lot of the fun absurdity, behind players being scared of getting one note that turns into a waterfall of notes.

It definitely pushes Manuel towards some of the more common criticisms of current Bee and Fulp, which is that they're "job simulators" in that moving out of the confines of what's expected of the average person playing your job gets you in trouble.

[Indie-ana Jones]

Suggestion: change LRP and MRP to something else, like normal and hugbox.

[Cobby]

The player history piece does not make sense to me, if you want them banned you can ban them without building a note repository of situations that make no sense to note/ban for?

The banote should be able to stand on it’s own or you should just say rule 0 now and skip the part where you’re going “well you have 50 notes even though half of them only exist because you had notes already so I have to ban you”.

[Tearling]

I can't believe it but I'm not voting for rave this year based off of this ruling and you might want to consider joining me in that fact.

I'm not voting for rave this year based off of a similar but also very disappointing ban appeal moment.
I'm glad he's actively sabotaging his own campaign by upholding remarkably shit bans.

Most of the people who have said they're voting for him, from what I've seen, say they're voting for him for his conduct behind-the-scenes in admin channels or because he's a 'safe' pick because he's already been headmin for a few terms.

These kinds of decisions won't change their mind because they either don't care about it as much as us, or don't keep up with ban appeals as we bored peanuters do. Here are some examples:

Rave is the safe vote

Also I haven't really done a more in depth study of past headmins terms so I'm a bit biased towards re-electing people who have already had headmin experience

From an admin PoV, having a stable and good internal headmin's what I'm looking for.

(That last one really goes into detail and is well-reasoned, even if I disagree with it, it should give you an idea as to why someone would vote for rave, regardless of their ban appeal decisions)

A decision like this might still change the mind of someone on the fence, but I wouldn't go so far as calling it "sabotaging his own campaign."

[Bawhoppennn]

I said Rave is the safe vote because Rave is a stable, sane, and reasonable person, and is not immature or prone to impulsive or ridiculous behavior like a couple of the other headmin candidates... not because Rave or anyone else is perfect

#CalledOut

[NecromancerAnne]

What's the matter with a bit of impulsivity and recklessness if you're still doing the right thing?

[Bawhoppennn]

Yeah there isn't but not everyone like that is doing the right thing