Appealing notes/retiring notes

[J_Madison]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Notes are a black mark on a player record. A note, however petty is the difference between a ban and a warning.

As headmins previously said; a Ban can be appealed, however short, and the ban must be able to stand up when challenged.

Does this stand up for notes too?
It is so easy to slap notes onto someone, but what if those notes were made on thin reasoning that collapsed when challenged?

It isn't fair to attach a note into thin reasoning, which could later result in a lengthier ban because the admin banning saw a note, not knowing the context or reliability of the note.

And with that being said about notes; what are official times for when a note is retired and no longer relavent or usable by admins?

[Shaps-cloud]

I'm glad to hear that you'll be extra discrepant on reviewing notes in future.

We won't be, we will be putting the same due diligence we have always put into them

But it hasn't.
It's just not a widespread issue because people don't know it's a widespread issue.

This is where I, someone who has actually worked in the administration extensively and oversee it, disagree with you. Adding another layer of work for admins to sort through with notes that can easily be circumvented by just asking an admin for your notes anyway, not to mention sorting through the fuckhuge layer of notes already out there, is not worth it.

Our admins are already thoroughly monitored by basically every other admin, banlogs are scoured daily, appeals are widely circulated and almost always seen by at least one headmin, there are plenty of checks to make sure that the evil madmin you think stalks you at night won't suddenly permaban you after giving you 50 notes that say "this guy is shit"

[J_Madison]

there are plenty of checks to make sure that the evil madmin you think stalks you at night won't suddenly permaban you after giving you 50 notes that say "this guy is shit"

Looks like I'm sold.

My apologies for believing otherwise. I'll refrain from making further statements on this matter.

[Shaps-cloud]

It's fine I probably got a little annoyed. I just want to address anyone who may be feeling nervous about their notes and tell them that if you act in good faith and don't keep doing bad things, you'll never have to worry about being screwed over by your notes. For prior notes to factor into an extended ban in any significant sense, you'd have to have like 2-3 notes for doing something shitty in a few months time span and then do it again for it to add up to an extension. A note here and there isn't something to worry about, and I'd much rather admins proactively put things down in text if they forsee a potential issue in the future with someone than stress about how the person getting noted will react to getting one (I realize even a light note feels like a big black mark, but it's not like that at all)

We're all gonna make it, don't worry

[Falamazeer]

Well shit, sorry shaps, I'm being a twit and seeing the other side of the curtain a bit has shown me that, My bad.

It's a good point, such a thing might limit good documentation, and since bad documentation is already being handled like you said, the whole thing is a bad idea.

[Saegrimr]

Also a reminder there's quite a few positive notes in there. Mainly people who got picked for random admin shenanigans and played it well.

A couple of the most recent ones being
"Did a fine job roleplaying the central command official. Making a note here for future devil considerations."
"Great roleplayer, helped out greatly with an admin event. Would recommend Event/10"
"Note - Definitely shaped up as a player. Lovely roleplay initiative when I set them in place of a flavour event."

[InsaneHyena]

I have a note that says I have an admin token. No idea what to spend it on.

[oranges]

all my notes are about how helpful and super positively nice I am. It's really cool.

[InsaneHyena]

No, you're not.

[Falamazeer]

all my notes are about how helpful and super positively nice I am. It's really cool.

More like orange and filled with vitamin c.

[Jordie0608]

I've never thought about secret notes before; it wouldn't be hard to do, but I wouldn't bother coding it if player-viewing notes doesn't have a chance of being enabled.

[oranges]

No, you're not.

You're gonna get a black mark for that mean comment you big meanie

[Alex Crimson]

I've never thought about secret notes before; it wouldn't be hard to do, but I wouldn't bother coding it if player-viewing notes doesn't have a chance of being enabled.

Admins would just end up exclusively using the hidden notes. No point.

[onleavedontatme]

I'd enable viewing notes Jordie.

[captain sawrge]

it isn't hard to not get notes just dont fuck up

[Jordie0608]

I'd enable viewing notes Jordie.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/20280