Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
- Bawhoppennn
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- Github Username: Bawhoppen
Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
This thread is an alternative to the other policy thread suggesting the Manuel ruleset be applied tgstation-wide.
As I mentioned there, I was a large fan of Manuel when it first launched, as it was a bit of a breath of fresh air from some of the more excessive No-RP players on the other servers. I still play there regularly, and am a big fan of it. However, there's been a number of things that concern me in regards to the new division between our servers. I think it is clear that something of a rift has developed between the servers. There's always been some cross-server rivalries, but in some ways, it's almost as we're playing in two separate communities now. That's not to paint it as hatred between servers or anything, but just that we're much less of a unified community as we used to be. I always enjoyed our community, even with how much it has changed over time, and even with all it's dumb drama, and this new status quo does sadden me a little.
Beyond that alone though, I believe the division between servers has also led to increasingly polarized extremes in the ruleset and culture. While some differences between the servers based on their intent make sense, I think it's gone a bit too far in both directions. After the remaining semi-RP players left Sybil & Basil for Manuel, minimum standards dropped even lower than they had previously been. That's not to say there's no RP, but there's even less of a sense of LRP than before. Conversely with Manuel, those opposed to the more extreme chaos and excessive lethality from No-RP players have aggregated there, leading its culture to be progressively more conflict-averse.
This is not to fault either playerbases or cultures. However, I do not believe this polarization is good for either the game, or for the community as a whole.
For those reasons, I think it would be in the best interest of all servers to establish a middle-ground unified ruleset, that still provides for the excitement and chaos of rounds, while maintaining a slightly higher standard of players, to curb excessive murderboning and the more severe cases of validhunting.
/tg/station has always touted itself, since the very beginning, as the classic SS13 experience. I believe that going to a reunified direction would help to ensure that this remain the case into the future, as well as to maintain a thriving community.
There is much much more I could've added to this post, yet I have tried to keep this succinct, as I would like everyone in the community to voice their opinion on the matter. All suggestions for potential new rules, ideas, or for those against, and the reasons behind those ideas/positions are welcome.
I urge everyone reading this to consider this proposal from a serious and open-minded perspective. Some of these concerns have been lingering in my mind for awhile, but the other thread prompted me to make a proper public thread on the matter. One thread will not conclude the matter for certain, but I hope this thread can open some positive discussion.
(Please don't interpret this as a /tg/station is dying post, I promise it's not supposed to be)
As I mentioned there, I was a large fan of Manuel when it first launched, as it was a bit of a breath of fresh air from some of the more excessive No-RP players on the other servers. I still play there regularly, and am a big fan of it. However, there's been a number of things that concern me in regards to the new division between our servers. I think it is clear that something of a rift has developed between the servers. There's always been some cross-server rivalries, but in some ways, it's almost as we're playing in two separate communities now. That's not to paint it as hatred between servers or anything, but just that we're much less of a unified community as we used to be. I always enjoyed our community, even with how much it has changed over time, and even with all it's dumb drama, and this new status quo does sadden me a little.
Beyond that alone though, I believe the division between servers has also led to increasingly polarized extremes in the ruleset and culture. While some differences between the servers based on their intent make sense, I think it's gone a bit too far in both directions. After the remaining semi-RP players left Sybil & Basil for Manuel, minimum standards dropped even lower than they had previously been. That's not to say there's no RP, but there's even less of a sense of LRP than before. Conversely with Manuel, those opposed to the more extreme chaos and excessive lethality from No-RP players have aggregated there, leading its culture to be progressively more conflict-averse.
This is not to fault either playerbases or cultures. However, I do not believe this polarization is good for either the game, or for the community as a whole.
For those reasons, I think it would be in the best interest of all servers to establish a middle-ground unified ruleset, that still provides for the excitement and chaos of rounds, while maintaining a slightly higher standard of players, to curb excessive murderboning and the more severe cases of validhunting.
/tg/station has always touted itself, since the very beginning, as the classic SS13 experience. I believe that going to a reunified direction would help to ensure that this remain the case into the future, as well as to maintain a thriving community.
There is much much more I could've added to this post, yet I have tried to keep this succinct, as I would like everyone in the community to voice their opinion on the matter. All suggestions for potential new rules, ideas, or for those against, and the reasons behind those ideas/positions are welcome.
I urge everyone reading this to consider this proposal from a serious and open-minded perspective. Some of these concerns have been lingering in my mind for awhile, but the other thread prompted me to make a proper public thread on the matter. One thread will not conclude the matter for certain, but I hope this thread can open some positive discussion.
(Please don't interpret this as a /tg/station is dying post, I promise it's not supposed to be)
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
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<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
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DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
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<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
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<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/6f8Momy.png)
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/20n2Rkc.png)
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
Putting in my two bits that this is a much better alternative than trying to wedge everyone into manuels “take a break from all that madcap chaos and relax” frankenstein extra ruleset. Further community fragmentation doesnt help any of the problems we have with RP levels (or rather it causes different, more obnoxious and less tractable ones).
Manuel has clearly shown that with a bit of tender loving shackles we can in fact foster a more roleplay friendly culture, HRP infiltrators aside, so its time to bring some of that to the main servers while also knocking off the less sensible and boredom causing aspects manuel is lumbered with.
In short let the duct tape of reconciliation be deployed.
Manuel has clearly shown that with a bit of tender loving shackles we can in fact foster a more roleplay friendly culture, HRP infiltrators aside, so its time to bring some of that to the main servers while also knocking off the less sensible and boredom causing aspects manuel is lumbered with.
In short let the duct tape of reconciliation be deployed.
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kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.![]()
- TheFinalPotato
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I agree with this post
- wesoda25
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
It was obvious this would happen from the moment manuel was created. Too late. Too late. Too late.
Also, I can't speak to terry but I have found the RP experience on bagil and sybil as of late to be perfectly fine.
Edit: also btw I would love if we could return to a common ground but how do you do that without driving away a substantial amount of current players? ethics aside I highly doubt headmins would be willing to depart from status quo that much but hey who knows maybe they'll surprise me. I've just been resigned to the hope that a joint administration, especially shared headmins, might keep the servers together. this is why all you headmin fellas should vote on all issues together fyi, and not abstain on certain issues :^)
Also, I can't speak to terry but I have found the RP experience on bagil and sybil as of late to be perfectly fine.
Edit: also btw I would love if we could return to a common ground but how do you do that without driving away a substantial amount of current players? ethics aside I highly doubt headmins would be willing to depart from status quo that much but hey who knows maybe they'll surprise me. I've just been resigned to the hope that a joint administration, especially shared headmins, might keep the servers together. this is why all you headmin fellas should vote on all issues together fyi, and not abstain on certain issues :^)
Last edited by wesoda25 on Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
- GamerAndYeahMick
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
No one in one side of the community wants to deal with all the people who want to disable x antag every other month, and no one in the other side wants to deal with john murderbone. It's perfectly fine to have two different rulesets catered for different people. Nothing is wrong but the mentality between people
- Bawhoppennn
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
Definitely isn't too late. RP has maybe improved a bit lately on Sybil/Basil in the past ~6-months in some aspects, though it's always been a bit cyclical from my observations. If that is true though, then that makes it even more possible to achieve.
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
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<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/6f8Momy.png)
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/20n2Rkc.png)
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/du1NZiL.png)
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/6f8Momy.png)
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/20n2Rkc.png)
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
- Armhulen
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
Middlegrounds i'm not sure anyone will be happy with
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- GamerAndYeahMick
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
same though and I like being on both ends of it, and I think allowing it and putting up with the "bad" aspects of it is better than disallowing it and putting up with the bad aspects of it being disallowed
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- Shadowflame909
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I like being a mary sue who can do it all because quite frequently a department is full of newplayers/empty. Especially when the station is screwed.
Thus rule 10 would be a downer if it was enforced on LRP.
Thus rule 10 would be a downer if it was enforced on LRP.
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- TheFinalPotato
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I get the feeling that drawing such a hard line between "Non manuel" and "RP" servers has created this issue where people who lean hard in one direction or another become more prominent. Like the remove all danger people, or any form of rp is a stupid idea people.
Seems like forcing the two groups to at least somewhat interact would lead to a more overall healthy game then keeping them separate.
S by nature a compromise, but I think it's better then this weird like, people who like excitement go in one corner, people who like talking go in the other, now never interact. That's an exaggeration of course, but I think the general idea is true
Seems like forcing the two groups to at least somewhat interact would lead to a more overall healthy game then keeping them separate.
S by nature a compromise, but I think it's better then this weird like, people who like excitement go in one corner, people who like talking go in the other, now never interact. That's an exaggeration of course, but I think the general idea is true
- GamerAndYeahMick
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I don't think bringing two extremes together will at all make a healthy middle ground it will just be two bickering parents fighting with each other whilst people who can enjoy both experiences are in the bathroom locked in crying
- Armhulen
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
Agree with more interaction between servers generally, would be healthier for everyone involvedTheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:04 am I get the feeling that drawing such a hard line between "Non manuel" and "RP" servers has created this issue where people who lean hard in one direction or another become more prominent. Like the remove all danger people, or any form of rp is a stupid idea people.
Seems like forcing the two groups to at least somewhat interact would lead to a more overall healthy game then keeping them separate.
S by nature a compromise, but I think it's better then this weird like, people who like excitement go in one corner, people who like talking go in the other, now never interact. That's an exaggeration of course, but I think the general idea is true
- Bawhoppennn
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
Potato sums up a lot of my thoughts quite well. Also worth saying that having a mixture of many different types of people is good for creating healthy rounds. Different skill levels, familiarity, mindset, attitude, motivations... all these things play against each other and create a positive round dynamic. Helps keep things from becoming routinized, which is needed for paranoia.TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:04 am I get the feeling that drawing such a hard line between "Non manuel" and "RP" servers has created this issue where people who lean hard in one direction or another become more prominent. Like the remove all danger people, or any form of rp is a stupid idea people.
Seems like forcing the two groups to at least somewhat interact would lead to a more overall healthy game then keeping them separate.
S by nature a compromise, but I think it's better then this weird like, people who like excitement go in one corner, people who like talking go in the other, now never interact. That's an exaggeration of course, but I think the general idea is true
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/du1NZiL.png)
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/6f8Momy.png)
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/20n2Rkc.png)
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/du1NZiL.png)
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/6f8Momy.png)
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/20n2Rkc.png)
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
- Sylphet
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
As I said in the other thread, this isn't a fixable issue anymore. It was always going to happen from the day Manuel was created. A server where anyone with even a passing interest in RP would go, and made when we're only a few months out of ssethtide at this point ? It ripped those people away, leaving behind mostly new, NRP gamers. This is why I always thought leaning into the separation is a good idea, splitting MRP into its own separate code and administration - to find what the new community it created wants for itself, without harming the experience of LRP players. To create two separate experiences for two communities which are still part of TG. I don't have my finger on the pulse of MRP nearly as much as I used to, but at this point I think Manuel players have seen the tg unity argument as the thing responsible for low RP standards and community disintegration. Any love for LRP is very rare now, except among people who would be called the problem. You can't impose the rules of those dumb cringe ERP dorks on Terry, and you can't impose the rules of those mean stinky NRP nazis on Manuel, neither side is going to accept that. Any of these measures to fix the divide are too little, too late, neither side will be happy, lots of people will leave, admins are not capable of consistently enforcing rules enough to change culture - and even if we could, no amount of rules and policy can erase it now.
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 37&t=27175
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 37&t=27175
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
Well that kinda throws people who don't want to be in a 24/7 deathmatch or a snoozefest where nobody is allowed to do anything kinda under the bus, doesn't it?Sylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:00 am As I said in the other thread, this isn't a fixable issue anymore. It was always going to happen from the day Manuel was created. A server where anyone with even a passing interest in RP would go, and made when we're only a few months out of ssethtide at this point ? It ripped those people away, leaving behind mostly new, NRP gamers. This is why I always thought leaning into the separation is a good idea, splitting MRP into its own separate code and administration - to find what the new community it created wants for itself, without harming the experience of LRP players. To create two separate experiences for two communities which are still part of TG. I don't have my finger on the pulse of MRP nearly as much as I used to, but at this point I think Manuel players have seen the tg unity argument as the thing responsible for low RP standards and community disintegration. Any love for LRP is very rare now, except among people who would be called the problem. You can't impose the rules of those dumb cringe ERP dorks on Terry, and you can't impose the rules of those mean stinky NRP nazis on Manuel, neither side is going to accept that. Any of these measures to fix the divide are too little, too late, neither side will be happy, lots of people will leave, admins are not capable of consistently enforcing rules enough to change culture - and even if we could, no amount of rules and policy can erase it now.
Or it would be if you were in any way serious about the doomer "your plan will never work because communities cant be changed by policy, so you should give the +rp server more leeway to change itself with its own rules and policy".
And as for this:
If you create two seperate serverbases with two seperate experiences for two seperate communities you can't still call them TG. And you've made both communities lesser.To create two separate experiences for two communities which are still part of TG
![Image](http://puu.sh/lfuw0/2284474afc.png)
![Image](https://puu.sh/F8fxl/eb4b111d5e.png)
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.![]()
- Sylphet
- Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:35 am
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
...what ? Both of these are shit experiences, I have no idea what you're getting at with this.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:18 am
Well that kinda throws people who don't want to be in a 24/7 deathmatch or a snoozefest where nobody is allowed to do anything kinda under the bus, doesn't it?
LRP should have the same freedom. I like LRP and I come from it, not MRP. Why should LRP be changed to be closer to a server with a different community just because they share a name ? I'm saying that if the divide can't be closed to the satisfaction of two communities, then we shouldn't try and force it to close and kill them both in the process. There's nothing doomer about that take. Current LRP and current MRP do not like each other or want what the others have to offer. And that's a sad state of things, but I honestly think it's better for everyone involved to go with it.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:18 am Or it would be if you were in any way serious about the doomer "your plan will never work because communities cant be changed by policy, so you should give the +rp server more leeway to change itself with its own rules and policy".
tgmcNot-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:18 am And as for this:If you create two seperate serverbases with two seperate experiences for two seperate communities you can't still call them TG. And you've made both communities lesser.To create two separate experiences for two communities which are still part of TG
And to be clear, I don't think anything needs to be done here. This is not an issue in either thread. The TG unity argument is very stupid and we don't need to close the divide. Things work just fine as they are. All I'm saying here is how it should be approached if we do decide to try and fix this nonissue. Which is relevant because obviously we're thinking about it, if there's two policy threads up.
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 37&t=27175
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 37&t=27175
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I should think it's pretty obvious what I'm saying there, but just in case: Letting the LRP servers slip further away because "RP is for manuel" and manuel slip further away because "Action is for terry" is bad and shrugging it off with "Well some people like the extreme ends of those servers so anyone who prefers the middleground can get fucked" isn't helpful.Sylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:53 pm...what ? Both of these are shit experiences, I have no idea what you're getting at with this.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:18 am
Well that kinda throws people who don't want to be in a 24/7 deathmatch or a snoozefest where nobody is allowed to do anything kinda under the bus, doesn't it?
>How is it a doomer takeSylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:53 pmLRP should have the same freedom. I like LRP and I come from it, not MRP. Why should LRP be changed to be closer to a server with a different community just because they share a name ? I'm saying that if the divide can't be closed to the satisfaction of two communities, then we shouldn't try and force it to close and kill them both in the process. There's nothing doomer about that take. Current LRP and current MRP do not like each other or want what the others have to offer. And that's a sad state of things, but I honestly think it's better for everyone involved to go with it.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:18 am Or it would be if you were in any way serious about the doomer "your plan will never work because communities cant be changed by policy, so you should give the +rp server more leeway to change itself with its own rules and policy".
>Immediately follows it up with "its a sad state of things but its just the way it is and everyone just has to deal with it being bad and shouldn't try to fix anything"
Unsurprisingly, I don't consider tgmc a tgstation server, even if they get to share a landingpage.Sylphet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:53 pmtgmcNot-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:18 am And as for this:If you create two seperate serverbases with two seperate experiences for two seperate communities you can't still call them TG. And you've made both communities lesser.To create two separate experiences for two communities which are still part of TG
And to be clear, I don't think anything needs to be done here. This is not an issue in either thread. The TG unity argument is very stupid and we don't need to close the divide. Things work just fine as they are. All I'm saying here is how it should be approached if we do decide to try and fix this nonissue. Which is relevant because obviously we're thinking about it, if there's two policy threads up.
![Image](http://puu.sh/lfuw0/2284474afc.png)
![Image](https://puu.sh/F8fxl/eb4b111d5e.png)
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.![]()
- Bawhoppennn
- Github User
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:42 pm
- Byond Username: Bawhoppennn
- Github Username: Bawhoppen
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I definitely wouldn't say it's impossible or too late to take action. I think that's pessimism more than reality. I've been told the same case for many other important policies on tgstation, even though many eventually end up happening. I hindsight I ought to have mentioned that I think it is very possible in the original post.
Anyways though, I gotta reemphasize the importance of unifying the community again. It's not healthy for anyone to have extreme cultural poles to gravitate to. And it's not a good state of affairs for the community to be divided in this way.
I still do hope everyone opines their views here, even if they disagree, and that everyone keeps an open mind to reunification.
I meant also to get into some potential ruleset discussions as well, though perhaps a convention would be best for that. Still though, we can atleast get the ball rolling to start thinking about it.
Anyways though, I gotta reemphasize the importance of unifying the community again. It's not healthy for anyone to have extreme cultural poles to gravitate to. And it's not a good state of affairs for the community to be divided in this way.
I still do hope everyone opines their views here, even if they disagree, and that everyone keeps an open mind to reunification.
I meant also to get into some potential ruleset discussions as well, though perhaps a convention would be best for that. Still though, we can atleast get the ball rolling to start thinking about it.
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/du1NZiL.png)
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/6f8Momy.png)
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/20n2Rkc.png)
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/du1NZiL.png)
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/6f8Momy.png)
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/20n2Rkc.png)
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
- Byond Username: Farquaar
- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I think the idea is worth considering.
If the server decides to move towards a more unified ruleset, I would lean more towards making Manuel's rules less strict than making LRP's rules more strict. The chief problem with Manuel is its increasingly insular culture, and I think making the ruleset less of a hugbox might set the server in the direction I hoped it would go down at the outset.
If the server decides to move towards a more unified ruleset, I would lean more towards making Manuel's rules less strict than making LRP's rules more strict. The chief problem with Manuel is its increasingly insular culture, and I think making the ruleset less of a hugbox might set the server in the direction I hoped it would go down at the outset.
► Show Spoiler
- Itseasytosee2me
- Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:14 am
- Byond Username: Rectification
- Location: Space Station 13
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I'm an old sybilite who is too stubborn to move to manual permanently because I think it's too slow and soft, generally, I would be in support of implementing some rules that focused on "roleplay".
It's difficult to draw the line for murderbone, especially if you are trying to compromise. Manuel draws it as "killing someone with no justification" but I think it's too restrictive and does not properly reflect what lrp servers would consider murderboning.
Are sabotages that have the only purpose of leading to random death murderboning?
If so I think that's a shame.
It's difficult to draw the line for murderbone, especially if you are trying to compromise. Manuel draws it as "killing someone with no justification" but I think it's too restrictive and does not properly reflect what lrp servers would consider murderboning.
Are sabotages that have the only purpose of leading to random death murderboning?
► Show Spoiler
Last edited by Itseasytosee2me on Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
See you later
- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
- Byond Username: Farquaar
- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I wish I could give you a concrete answer, but it seems to depend on which admins are online at the time. I personally believe that a virus, a plasmafire etc. should be perfectly fair game on an MRP server.Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:58 pmAre sabotages that have the only purpose of leading to random death murderboning?If so I think that's a shame.► Show Spoiler
► Show Spoiler
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
- Byond Username: Optimumtact
- Github Username: optimumtact
- Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
There is no community fracture, just human behaviours, you could give everyone on the tg discord a random green or blue label and they'd fight to teh death about which role was better until the end of time.
- Flatulent
- Forum Soft Banned
- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:36 am
- Byond Username: FlatulentIndustrialist
- Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
the only solution is making manuel link re-direct to bay instead, but nobody seems to enjoy actually solving problems, instead you just want to make everything worse.
accept that manuel is a failed experiment and a snoozefest, and that it’s in no way similar to the so-called mrp tg from 1980s that you constantly mention when we talk about how tg (correctly) is and always was a lrp server.
you can’t compromise between people who want rule 4 and those who want manuel rule 10. it’s just not possible. any compromise will lead to either side just leaving but it doesn’t seem like coders and administration are too concerned about that
i reccomend switching tg to MRP (mega roleplay) for best results. nobody wants that and nobody on tg right now will play if those rules get implemented, but at least you’ll get a fresh start to do whatever you want without those pesky players annoying you at every turn
accept that manuel is a failed experiment and a snoozefest, and that it’s in no way similar to the so-called mrp tg from 1980s that you constantly mention when we talk about how tg (correctly) is and always was a lrp server.
you can’t compromise between people who want rule 4 and those who want manuel rule 10. it’s just not possible. any compromise will lead to either side just leaving but it doesn’t seem like coders and administration are too concerned about that
i reccomend switching tg to MRP (mega roleplay) for best results. nobody wants that and nobody on tg right now will play if those rules get implemented, but at least you’ll get a fresh start to do whatever you want without those pesky players annoying you at every turn
Mothblocks, winter 2020, “successfully” preventing bagil death with relevant data wrote:You seem to be under the fallacy that reinforcing that Bagil is a TDM shithole where you must carry bolas and spears on you at all times, while looking for the next valid to hunt down is a positive change to the server. I don't. The data suggests other people don't.
imsxz wrote:I give up there’s too many furries
cacogen wrote:i asked oranges how often he plays and he deleted the post
cybersaber101 wrote:Welp, you guys let a terrymin become a headmin, thousand years of darkness.
Vekter wrote:I jerk off Nist a bit too much but he's honestly one of the best silicon players on the server. B.O.R.G.O. is also pretty good.
- oranges
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
- Byond Username: Optimumtact
- Github Username: optimumtact
- Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
the only failed experiment here is you
- Flatulent
- Forum Soft Banned
- Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:36 am
- Byond Username: FlatulentIndustrialist
- Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
sorry insults arent allowed on manuel it can lead to physical conflict and we dont want that here its all peace quiet and bar rp
Mothblocks, winter 2020, “successfully” preventing bagil death with relevant data wrote:You seem to be under the fallacy that reinforcing that Bagil is a TDM shithole where you must carry bolas and spears on you at all times, while looking for the next valid to hunt down is a positive change to the server. I don't. The data suggests other people don't.
imsxz wrote:I give up there’s too many furries
cacogen wrote:i asked oranges how often he plays and he deleted the post
cybersaber101 wrote:Welp, you guys let a terrymin become a headmin, thousand years of darkness.
Vekter wrote:I jerk off Nist a bit too much but he's honestly one of the best silicon players on the server. B.O.R.G.O. is also pretty good.
- Indie-ana Jones
- Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:15 pm
- Byond Username: Indie-ana Jones
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
Only thing that really bothers me is that I feel the governing bodies should be separate seeing how different the servers are. Different headmins that can dedicate their focus on LRP or MRP, you know?
- YBS
- Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:54 am
- Byond Username: YBS
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I slept on this and honestly, the separation is fine how it is. The tribal wars of gamer vs RPer have always been here, growing more as SS13 became more publicized.
We already have a unifying ruleset on the main page, and our best rule is right at the front.
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/DujqyE6.png)
Our greatest issue is people ignoring this out of bad faith on both sides. HRPers trying to hugbox Manuel, with NRPers trying to turn Terry into Hippie.
I think what you've set as an idealistic community issue is only solvable by collective individual effort. Basically if you're reading this and you're not happy with the state of insert-station, be a part of the change.
If you involve other players in your ingame antics in a positive way while also being open to being included yourself, everyone doing this simultaneously would basically be a return to form.
If you're a part of a metagang but would rather be deleted IRL than admit it, think about everyone you're isolating who could give you a more interesting experience. Etcetera.
That being said, I'd be interested to see what your middleground ruleset would look like. If you have a stronger idea about it, it might as well be written and posted here for discussion if we're talking policy.
We already have a unifying ruleset on the main page, and our best rule is right at the front.
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/DujqyE6.png)
Our greatest issue is people ignoring this out of bad faith on both sides. HRPers trying to hugbox Manuel, with NRPers trying to turn Terry into Hippie.
I think what you've set as an idealistic community issue is only solvable by collective individual effort. Basically if you're reading this and you're not happy with the state of insert-station, be a part of the change.
If you involve other players in your ingame antics in a positive way while also being open to being included yourself, everyone doing this simultaneously would basically be a return to form.
If you're a part of a metagang but would rather be deleted IRL than admit it, think about everyone you're isolating who could give you a more interesting experience. Etcetera.
That being said, I'd be interested to see what your middleground ruleset would look like. If you have a stronger idea about it, it might as well be written and posted here for discussion if we're talking policy.
- Bawhoppennn
- Github User
- Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:42 pm
- Byond Username: Bawhoppennn
- Github Username: Bawhoppen
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
I don't know what to tell you oranges. I just don't think it's reflective of reality to reduce it into these terms. Everything social is just human behavior, but that doesn't make it non-social. From a far enough vantage point one can look at stuff as just trends of social psychology, but that kind of ignores the meaning behind social affairs. In my eyes, atleast for the community, we do have something of a divide, and I think it does matter to some amount.
YBS wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:56 pm I slept on this and honestly, the separation is fine how it is. The tribal wars of gamer vs RPer have always been here, growing more as SS13 became more publicized.
We already have a unifying ruleset on the main page, and our best rule is right at the front.
Our greatest issue is people ignoring this out of bad faith on both sides. HRPers trying to hugbox Manuel, with NRPers trying to turn Terry into Hippie.
I think what you've set as an idealistic community issue is only solvable by collective individual effort. Basically if you're reading this and you're not happy with the state of insert-station, be a part of the change.
If you involve other players in your ingame antics in a positive way while also being open to being included yourself, everyone doing this simultaneously would basically be a return to form.
If you're a part of a metagang but would rather be deleted IRL than admit it, think about everyone you're isolating who could give you a more interesting experience. Etcetera.
That being said, I'd be interested to see what your middleground ruleset would look like. If you have a stronger idea about it, it might as well be written and posted here for discussion if we're talking policy.
Thank you for your response, and I do understand your perspective. To keep it fairly brief, my feelings on the matter (roundabout) are that it's true many things from the community/server's past can't artificially be forced to return. Ways, values, culture, and other things change over time, and that is definitely part of life. Even so though, I still think that we have given our new status quo enough time develop so we can fairly judge it. Though some divisions will always exist, there seems to be more major of ones than I'd wish to see. It has concerned me that in some ways we have ordained this as being a legitimate division now though, through our differing rulesets (which feeds back to culture, that can then reinforce a further distinct ruleset later, and so on). I do not believe that this is good for the community; heading to extremes is bad in all areas of life. It seems that we've seen some of the negative effects of this already in a few spots. I think this concern is fairly focused in scope. And well, there is just something nice about having a more unified community. Going further into separation just doesn't sit that well with me at heart. For me that is kind of important.
I do believe also that people having a collective spirit of sportsmanship and good attitudes is something to be encouraged always on ss13. I believe a more ideal ruleset could somehow incorporate this as its backing philosophy. Aside from making sure we don't add anything radical to a new ruleset, I'm not exactly sure on details at this moment, though I invite all suggestions. One thing is I have always been interested in was creating a statement of direction/philosophy about this sort of thing, such as for sportsmanship. Ie, suggesting all players to try to show sportsmanship, perhaps providing a few examples for ideas. This wouldn't be binding or anything, but would maybe try and paint a picture of a positive player spirit which is in the best interest of fun for everyone. Simultaneously though, in my view it'd be best to make sure it still preserves player freedom and agency, avoiding being too restrictive. Important to me for rule-infractions is repeat offenders. Eg, one-time things that might happen in a round which are technically against the rules aren't the problem so much, but rather the people who consistently only play the game to have fun for themselves are the ones who are best to be penalized.
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/du1NZiL.png)
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/6f8Momy.png)
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/20n2Rkc.png)
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/du1NZiL.png)
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/6f8Momy.png)
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
![Image](https://i.imgur.com/20n2Rkc.png)
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
- NamelessFairy
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:40 pm
- Byond Username: NamelessFairy
Re: Mend the Community Fracture by Establishing a Middleground Ruleset for all Servers
We have no intention to merge the roleplay levels of our servers, we think it would be best to preserve two different styles of gameplay for differing playerbases.
Headmin Votes:
NamelessFairy: Agree
Dragomagol: Agree
RaveRadbury: Agree
Headmin Votes:
NamelessFairy: Agree
Dragomagol: Agree
RaveRadbury: Agree
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