Antags recruiting non-antags

[whodaloo]

I asked an admin online and got a "personally its okay by me", but I'm gonna make a thread so I can get some official opinions.

Is it alright to try and hire greytides to kill your target, using the syndicate cash bundle?
And, more broadly, I guess, when is it okay to cooperate with an antagonist as a non-antag?

[firecage]

Well, the thing that the majority of admins told me is that it is okay, as long as both you and the other person adminhelp it first, so there aren't any problems later on.

[peoplearestrange]

Seems like it would give the opportunity to some interesting RP's. However would be better to ahelp it to give the admins a heads up in case they think you're meta gaming etc.

You have to realise thought asking a non-antag to go on a killing spree is only ever going to get them bwoink and you possibley for baiting. But if you asked someone to "make a distraction in medbay" whilst you say broke in to the bridge, then I think that would be fair enough. You're also risking that the non antag could just turn you in to sec at any given moment, they're not loyal to the syndicate at all.

However I don't want to give it free rain for anyone to just do something under the guise of "that one antag told me to".

[Scones]

I feel there is a marked difference between what is described in the rules ('Reasonable cooperation') and outright trying to grant someone a sort of antagonist status.

The money is there to generate cooperation via RP, like buying your steal objective, or paying off a witness. I don't think, however, that you can use it to have someone actually go do some serious antag business like attack Security, kill somebody, destroy a corpse via the gibber/cremator, or anything that would seriously harm other players. Trying to claim that doing so is 'RP' is objectively false in that it implies that the crew at large is just a bunch of sociopathic secret agents waiting to be given 4k in cash so they can abandon their posts and beat someone up, because in reality it is just players hoping that someone will grant them a quasi-antag status.

That being said, it's always interesting to see what creative stuff people try and manipulate others into doing, and I'll never forget the time I paid the HoP 16 cases for 16 clown slots.

[NikNakFlak]

C4 signaller impanted into the chest of a crew member and force them to do stuff under threat of being blown up.

[DemonFiren]

Wait, does C-4 stil gib when you're on the same tile?

[Fayrik]

So, I think I draw the line a little further than everyone else, but in my eyes it all comes down to this:
An antag bribing/threatening a crew member to do something? Good.
A crew member demanding/threatening an antag for something? Bad.

Also, if a normal crew member ever approaches you and demands stuff, when you're an antag, ahelp it... Or just murder them in maint, either's good.

[whodaloo]

Wait, does C-4 stil gib when you're on the same tile?

C4 doesn't gib unless you suicide, I believe.

[Drynwyn]

Wait, does C-4 stil gib when you're on the same tile?

C4 doesn't gib unless you suicide, I believe.

C4 can no longer be attached to people, but it CAN be implanted in their chest. If it is implanted in the chest of a person, or for other reasons references a mob as it's location, that mob will be gibbed upon the c4 detonating regardless of whether or not they are alive.

It will also gib dead bodies that are within it's explosive radius, because the ex_act() for mobs if, IIRC, a simple if(dead) -> gib.

[lumipharon]

What? explosions haven't done that for literally over year, if not two. Everyone used to kill their target/whoever, then just welder bomb for le ebin gib, or even worse, wizards would GIB EVERYTHING with fireball spam, christ that was terrifying.

And c4 CANNOT gib a person outside of suicide - doesn't matter if it's on the same tile as them, the explosion isn't big enough. It only destroys things that it's attached to, as a specific code thing, not from the explosion itself.
Yesterday for example, I put c4 on soap and threw the soap onto the shuttle. Some guy slipped on it, and it exploded under him - he took some damage but was very much alive and ungibbed.

[ThanatosRa]

... THis made me think of a thought I had as a lizard traitor. Subverting the AI with a modified Antimov lawset to facilitate a Lizard Uprising(SInce lizards AREN'T human, they would'nt automatically be subject to the Harm of Antimov), recruiting all lizards to my cause.


But I was thinking this was a REALLY BAD IDEA and kinda dickish since there would be retaliation against all lizards, especially if they weren't antags themselves. Fun as the idea was in my head, I figure it's just probably askin' for a bannin'.

[Drynwyn]

... THis made me think of a thought I had as a lizard traitor. Subverting the AI with a modified Antimov lawset to facilitate a Lizard Uprising(SInce lizards AREN'T human, they would'nt automatically be subject to the Harm of Antimov), recruiting all lizards to my cause.


But I was thinking this was a REALLY BAD IDEA and kinda dickish since there would be retaliation against all lizards, especially if they weren't antags themselves. Fun as the idea was in my head, I figure it's just probably askin' for a bannin'.

If you're a traitor you can upload whateverthefuck you want to the AI, though, short of somehow raping the AI via law upload.

[Konork]

... THis made me think of a thought I had as a lizard traitor. Subverting the AI with a modified Antimov lawset to facilitate a Lizard Uprising(SInce lizards AREN'T human, they would'nt automatically be subject to the Harm of Antimov), recruiting all lizards to my cause.


But I was thinking this was a REALLY BAD IDEA and kinda dickish since there would be retaliation against all lizards, especially if they weren't antags themselves. Fun as the idea was in my head, I figure it's just probably askin' for a bannin'.

If you're a traitor you can upload whateverthefuck you want to the AI, though, short of somehow raping the AI via law upload.

"This law is my penis"
But yeah, that lizard-antimov thing would be fine, and it would actually be pretty interesting, unlike most attempts at AI subversion end up being, which is usually "X is the only human", followed by either "do not mention that and protect me" or "murder everyone"

[ThanatosRa]

... THis made me think of a thought I had as a lizard traitor. Subverting the AI with a modified Antimov lawset to facilitate a Lizard Uprising(SInce lizards AREN'T human, they would'nt automatically be subject to the Harm of Antimov), recruiting all lizards to my cause.


But I was thinking this was a REALLY BAD IDEA and kinda dickish since there would be retaliation against all lizards, especially if they weren't antags themselves. Fun as the idea was in my head, I figure it's just probably askin' for a bannin'.

If you're a traitor you can upload whateverthefuck you want to the AI, though, short of somehow raping the AI via law upload.

"This law is my penis"
But yeah, that lizard-antimov thing would be fine, and it would actually be pretty interesting, unlike most attempts at AI subversion end up being, which is usually "X is the only human", followed by either "do not mention that and protect me" or "murder everyone"

It just seems like it would incite a hell of a race war and dick over whatever poor non-antag lizards are on the station.
I should comment that I specified Modified. As in trying to figure out how to word a law to get an Antimov AI to actually protect the lizards.
To clarify, it feels like a HUGE Rule One violation. Hence why I'm glad to have had the wherewithal to NOT do it first chance I get.

[Saegrimr]

Has potential for both awesome and abuse. Just ahelp before you do something like this so we don't start blasting people for nonantag shenanigans.

If its something like paying someone off for their gear, target items, or to not blab about something you just did then sure, don't even worry about it. Once you start getting into the recruitment for murder it gets sketchy.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

... THis made me think of a thought I had as a lizard traitor. Subverting the AI with a modified Antimov lawset to facilitate a Lizard Uprising(SInce lizards AREN'T human, they would'nt automatically be subject to the Harm of Antimov), recruiting all lizards to my cause.


But I was thinking this was a REALLY BAD IDEA and kinda dickish since there would be retaliation against all lizards, especially if they weren't antags themselves. Fun as the idea was in my head, I figure it's just probably askin' for a bannin'.

If you upload antimov without specific protect for lizards, the AI will wait long enough for plasma to start flooding then shut down all the emitters. It isn't going to protect lizards, it's going to brutally murder every human it can until there are none left or it dies, and if it survives killing everyone, it will probbably have some corpses borged and have them dissassemble arrivals. Then kill itself.

Antimov is serious shit.

[ThanatosRa]

Has potential for both awesome and abuse. Just ahelp before you do something like this so we don't start blasting people for nonantag shenanigans.

If its something like paying someone off for their gear, target items, or to not blab about something you just did then sure, don't even worry about it. Once you start getting into the recruitment for murder it gets sketchy.

Heh, honestly I doubt i get to the AI long enough to subvert it. But I was thinking that. Regardless, You can see my record. I rarely play and I'm harmless. For some twisted reason I like the community and would not want to do harm to it.
I suppose I'd probably also have to cover my ass by inciting the other lizards to rebel and join me rather than leave them to their own devices.

[Timbrewolf]

The thing we've always tried to prevent and be wary of with antag cooperation is metafriends recruiting their buddies to form a sort of mini-rev gang to run around as a gank squad.

"HE'S MY IC FRIEND!" traditionally hasn't been a great reason to help them kill people without provocation.

"But my character hates Nanotrasen! I'll take any opportunity to lash out against the station!" is essentially the same as "muh character is socopat i krill for fun". Until the rules get changed that's how it has been.

[Gun Hog]

Am I allowed to trade antagonist objectives (RD armor, hand tele, etc) to obtain Syndicate items, so long as I know and accept that Sec would likey give me 12 inches of hot, inorganic stun baton for it?

[ThatSlyFox]

I would see no problem with it personally.

[Void Slayer]

So in a recent round I used golems and sentient slimes/monsters to create (sadly not too effective) chaos and destruction.

The spider was the best guard spider ever.

I know golems are generally covered by their creation text, what about light pink slime monsters? The text seems a little weaker then the golem one.