Bomb Policy II: Electric Boogaloo

[Oldman Robustin]

Bottom post of the previous page:

The admin divergence on bomb policy at this point is entering "gross negligence" levels. Pretty much every admin has a different opinion on when bombs are bannable. Not just mild difference either, like fundamentally difference understandings of our policy.

First ban was for failing to bomb a blob core, which had already been bombed by another player (i.e. it was a giant space crater with a blob in it), after I yelled for everyone to GTFO for around two minutes. Turns out coders had secretely made blob cores immune to bombs, wew. https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=4959

It was quickly repealed but now I'm banned again for actually successfully bombing a hostile LICH WIZARD because it claimed too many bystanders and the wizard hadn't killed enough people to justify a bomb.

I'm just floored by this shit. Bombing a wizard is already considered pretty standard fare, bombing a LICH is widely understood to be the ONLY way to prevent the immortal jackass from doing whatever he wants. Good liches will ensure their cooldown is always ready when electing to fight the crew, skellies have a slew of benefits that make them immune to other anti-wiz tactics.

I'm just baffled as to what our policy is at this point. Am I supposed to be a psychic bomber who knows the antag's precise bodycount, spell selection, and ultimate goals before detonating? Why the fuck do we even have shit like liches if you're going to ban people for bombing them before they've reached a sufficient kill count? Was I supposed to be able to tell which people had been killed by the wizard versus the slaughter demon?

This utter lack of policy on the station's most potent weapon is really, really inexcusable. Especially after I made a thread months ago trying to ask the same questions and never getting a decisive answer.

[imblyings]

There was a round recently where an ei nath lich was playing in the same round that oldman was making bombs. Oldman gave out a few bombs for spess cash. The lich was eventually stunned and surrounded in the meeting room and someone other than oldman detonated a max cap to gib the wizard. They were cucked hard, the lich teleporting out in what must have been less than a second before the bomb actually blew. Around six or seven innocents died including mr robustin.

From a case by case basis, the shuttle was about to arrive soon and it was just spectacularly bad luck on the bombers part. It also gave me a chuckle since they got cucked that hard. The bomber wasn't banned.

Food for thought.

In the other hand, the lich was killed when their phylactery was destroyed and tbh it is quite possible to destroy a lich without bombs, I've seen it happen.

[Oldman Robustin]

Isn't that the whole point of lich though, to stop yourself from being bursted by a typical cheese tactic [IE bombs]?

I'm not a big fan of bombs because they're uncreative and can be churned out within 5 minutes, turning everything in a viewable range GG [especially when some people consistently have bombs on/in their persona, antag or not] without any actual counter [we removed telesci roundstart for the same reason]. Needless to say, I am not opposed with any policy that curbs bomb usage for antags altogether [outside of blub which damages station integrity anyways].

You should ALWAYS assume the round will continue if you kill an antag [despite my hatred for wiz mulligan]. Not sure why people find this meta but 'KILLING THE WIZ ENDS THE GAME GUYS LEMME MAXCAP HIM' is not.

Yes that's the point of lich, and you can shut down your only weakness by putting Toxins near the top of your "rooms to murderize" list.

[Oldman Robustin]

Why must bombing things be the answer to everything tbh

It's not and ignorant statements like this detract from any meaningful conversation. With blob cores secretely changed to being bomb-immune, Wizards are now pretty much the only antag left where bombs are an attractive option.

Yes you can still bomb out of control cults, shadowling dens, malf AI's, and flukeflops... but the occasions where you have access to bombs, know how to make bombs, are WILLING to use those bombs as a non-antag, have clear justification for using those bombs, AND having a clear and readily identifiable target for those bombs.... well those situations are extremely rare.

There was a round recently where an ei nath lich was playing in the same round that oldman was making bombs. Oldman gave out a few bombs for spess cash. The lich was eventually stunned and surrounded in the meeting room and someone other than oldman detonated a max cap to gib the wizard. They were cucked hard, the lich teleporting out in what must have been less than a second before the bomb actually blew. Around six or seven innocents died including mr robustin.

From a case by case basis, the shuttle was about to arrive soon and it was just spectacularly bad luck on the bombers part. It also gave me a chuckle since they got cucked that hard. The bomber wasn't banned.

Food for thought.

In the other hand, the lich was killed when their phylactery was destroyed and tbh it is quite possible to destroy a lich without bombs, I've seen it happen.

Yea I posted about that earlier. I thought the guy was banned though since they weren't responding in deadchat and everyone talked about them being benned in OOC after the round. Ironically the only reason the phylactery was destroyed was because the failbomber unintentionally caught it in the blast since it was in someone's backpack.

Good that they weren't banned but still doesn't give us a clear policy since "Making the admin chuckle" as a way to avoid being banned for bombing is pretty much the definition of "I need to adminwho before setting this bomb off" because some people might chuckle while others will have a throbbing banhammer waiting for you.

[CPTANT]

So is there anyone that thinks non-antags set off too many bombs?

Because in my opinion it is happens very rarely anyway.

[metacide]

Yeah, I never really see station crew use bombs. Wizard rounds sound like the ideal time because they're stupid meme bollocks that no one cares about anyway.

[Takeguru]

They don't use bombs because some admins are far too trigger-happy on banning for using bombs.

[callanrockslol]

Maybe we should address Lich being a shit and not working properly because lolbyond

[lumipharon]

Lich is honestly just a very unfun game mechanic.
It's way too easy to abuse to become an utterly unkillable turbomurderboner (except for bombs, heuh).

[Steelpoint]

Lich is something that should cost 4 or 5 spell points, that would justify being nigh unkillable. You trade a lot of spell buying power to guarantee near immortality.

[Zilenan91]

Lich a shit. It also makes the hardsuit completely obsolete.

[Poorman]

Bombs are fun

[Helios]

So, it's allowed or not?
bag of holding wizards is allowed or not?