Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
Permabanned/burnt out players do not provide interesting or relevant discourse to the future health of the server. They are, at best, off topic or misinformed, and at worst, actively harmful to the discussion. The Player's Club intentionally limits posting (but not viewing) only to those who have played recently, of which what is considered "played" is fairly generous (even oranges got in, har har). I don't see any reason to let people who have removed themselves from the game, or worse--banned, try to push against administrative changes.
I would exclude admins from these restrictions, as they are more likely to have their finger on the pulse of what is a good/bad change, especially if they're an active admin. I know a handful of admins who don't meet Player's Club restrictions but are still very active administrators, and would not like to see them lose their voice.
I don't mind if the time considered "player" for policy discussion is increased by a lot, I think Player's Club is already fairly generous, but I wouldn't mind.
The extension doesn't work like this now, but I want to know if this is desirable before I take the ~10 minutes it would take to update it (plus whatever time it takes to get the most updated version of it).
I would exclude admins from these restrictions, as they are more likely to have their finger on the pulse of what is a good/bad change, especially if they're an active admin. I know a handful of admins who don't meet Player's Club restrictions but are still very active administrators, and would not like to see them lose their voice.
I don't mind if the time considered "player" for policy discussion is increased by a lot, I think Player's Club is already fairly generous, but I wouldn't mind.
The extension doesn't work like this now, but I want to know if this is desirable before I take the ~10 minutes it would take to update it (plus whatever time it takes to get the most updated version of it).
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
- Byond Username: Farquaar
- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
I don't think that's necessary. You take a permabanned or burnt-out player's opinion with a grain of salt, sure, but they should still be allowed to voice it. Even if they make a bad point, replies to said point can yield discussion that will inform future admins about the intentions behind a given policy change.
Of course, if a particular permabannee/non-player is actively derailing policy discussions, then that should be dealt with. But it should happen on an individual basis.
Of course, if a particular permabannee/non-player is actively derailing policy discussions, then that should be dealt with. But it should happen on an individual basis.
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- cSeal
- Joined: Mon May 17, 2021 2:10 am
- Byond Username: O0cyann0o
Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
I think at times inactive people do have something valuable to say, precedents from the past or insight into past rulings made during the prehistoric era of 2014 etc but generally letting burnt out or intensely shit individuals post in the policy threads adds nothing but misery and long off topic rants
of course a better solution would be to ban shitters off the forums but, lol thats never gonna happen
of course a better solution would be to ban shitters off the forums but, lol thats never gonna happen
- GamerAndYeahMick
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:17 pm
- Byond Username: GamerAndYeahMick
- Location: Quahog
Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
don't agree, a lot of burnt out players burned out because they at some point didn't like a change we made in either code or policy or whatever, and their opinions on how things should be still hold some value to me regardless of that, I think there are probably a few knobheads but just ban the outliers instead of punishing everyone
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- Forum Soft Banned
- Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
- Byond Username: Cacogen
Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
This is very true. We should apply these standards to code contribution and maintainership as well.Mothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:45 am Permabanned/burnt out players do not provide interesting or relevant discourse to the future health of the server. They are, at best, off topic or misinformed, and at worst, actively harmful to the discussion.
- Misdoubtful
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:03 pm
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Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
I'm 100% all about this right here. There is already a barrier that people should be contributing at least something to the topic. That something opens the door to more somethings.Farquaar wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:50 am I don't think that's necessary. You take a permabanned or burnt-out player's opinion with a grain of salt, sure, but they should still be allowed to voice it. Even if they make a bad point, replies to said point can yield discussion that will inform future admins about the intentions behind a given policy change.
Of course, if a particular permabannee/non-player is actively derailing policy discussions, then that should be dealt with. But it should happen on an individual basis.
Some people don't ask questions or poke at points about something that a misinformed or harmful person would, that lets it be resolved and preserved in text, in the thread related to the matter.
If someone is actually trying to push something that people see as a net negative, people aren't afraid to jump on it.
This could exclude people that don't have the time to put into the game, those people might have something reasonable or historically relevant to contribute.
It just feels weird to consider gating server policy like this. Policy thread moderation can kill the actual problem children, and policy posters already do the rest. What is there to solve here? What is the issue? I don't see some recurring issue happening here.
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- TheFinalPotato
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:58 am
- Byond Username: LemonInTheDark
Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
I agree with burger
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
Yeah if this happened more often I probably wouldn't have any care for this at all
I'm not attached to this idea in any way I just thought it was worth discussing
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- Timberpoes
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:54 pm
- Byond Username: Timberpoes
Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
Policy discussion is about more than just active players.
The decisions can impact permabanned players when rules, policies and precedents shift. It is also a platform for ex-tg/retired/inactive players to give their thoughts on things that may draw them back to the servers, or the things that caused them to quit playing/play elsewhere.
The (current term's) headmins and forum moderators are sharp as tacks when it comes to removing shitposts and bad-faith posts. I think reporting the bad posts is the best compromise between stopping bad-faith posters shitting up discussions while allowing inactive players to give their views, opinions and experiences.
The decisions can impact permabanned players when rules, policies and precedents shift. It is also a platform for ex-tg/retired/inactive players to give their thoughts on things that may draw them back to the servers, or the things that caused them to quit playing/play elsewhere.
The (current term's) headmins and forum moderators are sharp as tacks when it comes to removing shitposts and bad-faith posts. I think reporting the bad posts is the best compromise between stopping bad-faith posters shitting up discussions while allowing inactive players to give their views, opinions and experiences.
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- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
You don't have to tell me about reporting posts, that's what prompted this thread in the first place--it's the same few shitposters I'm constantly reporting for off topic posts.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Put Player's Club-like restrictions on Policy Discussion
Alright yeah I don't care about this that much anymore, I think I'm going to poke at forum admins harder about actually banning/warning people rather than just removing the post, thanks for the intelligent discourse all
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
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