syndicate shuttle

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:08 am #81197

tbh quite sick of unwritten policies, it's not on the rules page and we had a round where admins spawned a L6 turret that shreked a borg that found the shuttle through following a pinpointer, as it was originally just trying to find the disk. Then there are people saying you shouldn't be allowed to board the shuttle via a borg or whatever nonsense.

Anyway, it's fucking stupid to ban for critical thinking skills for what is ultimately a mapping/coding problem but if it has to be a policy, can it be discussed here, formalized, finalized, and put into writing into the rules page on the wiki.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:56 am #81200

It's been my understanding that if you are lead to the shuttle via pinpointer by virtue of an operative aboard the shuttle having the disk, you are 100% green to board it.

What is NOT allowed is boarding the shuttle by metaing it's position (Typically as silicon) and spacing the nuke/flying it elsewhere.

That particular situation was the result of miscommunication and misinformation.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:12 am #81202

From what I know on this issue, so long as your led to the shuttle legitimately (Pinpointer or following a Nuke Op) then you can freely board the ship.

However even that can sometimes be a grey area for some admins, as its not common scenario.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:25 am #81205

Well we currently have being allowed to get on the shuttle via following a pinpointer or nuke op.

And Scones, do you mean if we're on the shuttle, we're not allowed to drive it elsewhere or space the nuke.

It's thing like this that need to be ironed out because a lot of it makes common sense or doesn't seem wrong to do.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:40 am #81210

Once I stole a bloodred hardsuit and followed a trail of emagged doors and bullet shells back to an airlock (they had gone in from the engineering airlock for some reason). Thinking this was reason enough to suspect that the ship was nearby I flung myself south and found it. I then proceeded to board the ship and act natural, not actually inhibiting the ops at all and only getting shot down without a fight after the nuke was set when someone finally realized I didn't have the HUD icon. Of course if I had started spacing their guns or moving the ship around or trying to gun them down from the entrance I'd call that shitty behavior, which is of course why I didn't do that.

I guess what I'm saying here is that there's some value in loose poorly defined rules when people are not assholes with the wiggle room. By and large they seem not to be in this case either.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:23 am #81213

most of our policy is loose but it at least exists within the rules page of the wiki.

It's unfair and unprofessional to have rules that a player would only know about if they broke or if they played long enough to learn about it. There also seems to be some sort of variance about the rule beyond 'following nuke ops/pinpointers to the shuttle is allowed'. We've got Scones saying it's okay to board it if that condition is met but not if you can fly it elsewhere, space the nuke, take the guns etc. And we've got yourself calling certain behaviour poor, which may well be an opinion shared by other admins.

I'm not saying there is no value in loosely defined rules sometimes but the syndicate shuttle seems a pretty clear cut case and at the bare minimum, it needs to be mentioned in the rules page.

and while this really is just opinion and not entirely policy related, it might be preferable to just allow boarding the shuttle with the caveat that there are several un-bombable LMG turrets you have to deal with if you enter it.

Stickymayhem · Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

Good point. I'll get on writing up this rule today. It's universal and undisputed, just not written down.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:08 pm #81236

Those turrets used to be on the syndie shuttle by default, but got removed for unknown reasons.

If those turrets were there all the time there wouldn't even need to be a rule about the shuttle. If you found it then good luck doing anything with it.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:01 am #111212

ayy lmao

it's happened again this time with tonnes of salt and with me on the receiving end of ahelps

I said this was important and none of you listened.

edit

It's really a mapping issue like I'm sure I've said many times and I won't blame a lack of coder/mapper effort because they're just volunteers but I fucking did say it numerous times in places I'm sure people who could affect the rules were capable of reading.

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:35 am #111217

Saegrimr wrote:Those turrets used to be on the syndie shuttle by default, but got removed for unknown reasons.

If those turrets were there all the time there wouldn't even need to be a rule about the shuttle. If you found it then good luck doing anything with it.

Turrets solve all problems. Except for bombs. And maybe borgs/mechs.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:50 am #111219

Problem has been exacerbated by the fact that the walls are deconstructable now

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:03 am #111226

Turrets would be an ideal solution.

Oldman Robustin · Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:31 pm

Turrets are not an ideal solution.

You can board the shuttle from almost any direction now due to walls being destroyable/deconstructable, so you need to have turrets all over the damn thing.

Then you have to contend with people who have RCD's, drag bulletproof objects (girders), etc. who can easily soak a shot while setting up to board with impunity.

Then under the old turrets they would shoot anyone without an agent ID card, so sometimes when I'd grab cap's PDA and use it to quickly escape, I'd be greeted by gunfire from our turret and I'm sure at least one op round was lost due to the diskop being gunned down by his own turret.

Plus it removes the very fun possibility that crew are able to track the disk back to shuttle and there's one last firefight for the fate of the station... whereas turrets let you safely chill on the shuttle and fly it to the opposite corner of the map if someone is chasing you.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:40 pm #111287

Oldman Robustin wrote:You can board the shuttle from almost any direction now due to walls being destroyable/deconstructable, so you need to have turrets all over the damn thing.

They were all over the damn thing. Every corner tile had a turret on it. It was also the old 60 brute LMG rounds coming out of those things so you get once chance and then you're done.

You're right about the destructible tiles thing though. Really does create a lot of new problems.

Oldman Robustin wrote:Then under the old turrets they would shoot anyone without an agent ID card,

Before they were removed (likely due to map merge conflict) they were based on the faction flag, which isn't easily changeable through in-game means.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:02 pm #111294

They're not meant to be destructible, afaik.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:12 pm #111296

Cant we just make the syndieshuttle non-deconstructable and leave other shuttles the way they are?

rdght91 · Post by **rdght91** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:55 pm #111314

One solution would be a syndie only access door guarded by a turret and non-destructable tiles/extra-difficut to destroy. That way, if you want to attack the shuttle, your odds are like 1 in 50.

QuartzCrystal · Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:34 am

Or we stop trying to impact gameplay with coding changes when it's easily impacted by roleplay rules changes. Not everything has to be coded to enforce, we have the instances where boarding the shuttle is allowed and we have the instances where it's not. If you know the rules (which are now going to be made explicit) then it's a non-issue.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:40 am #111478

Coding solutions are more concrete and more effective than just written words that state you can or can't do something

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:08 am #111492

So a round just happened where the nuke was spaced (and flooded with plasma). The syndicate killed everyone. So the dead had to sit around for a good while before an admin showed up (none was on, thanks Scones for appearing to save the day) to actually give the on station codes for the nuke so the round would end as everyone was dead.

Spacing the nuke and all that is just something nuke ops can't defend against and is also horribly meta. In the long run it creates more problems than it solves. A turret would also not be a bad idea, but it's best to just not let people onto the syndicate shuttle who aren't the ops.

Shad0vvs · Post by **Shad0vvs** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:30 am #111494

Aliannera wrote:So a round just happened where the nuke was spaced (and flooded with plasma). The syndicate killed everyone. So the dead had to sit around for a good while before an admin showed up (none was on, thanks Scones for appearing to save the day) to actually give the on station codes for the nuke so the round would end as everyone was dead.

Spacing the nuke and all that is just something nuke ops can't defend against and is also horribly meta. In the long run it creates more problems than it solves. A turret would also not be a bad idea, but it's best to just not let people onto the syndicate shuttle who aren't the ops.

As the nuke op in the situation, that was no fun for anyone as we had to kill everyone while everyone was icking in oocking waiting for an admin to come on just because some atmos tech wanted to fuck with us with his meta. Literally ruining the whole gamemode(and not just for the ops) for his kicks/pay2win/meta attitude.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:59 am #111500

Person in question is gone now for 3 days.

Screemonster · Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:55 am

How badly would it fuck things if ops got the code to the on-station nuke as well as their own? They'd still have to get dat fukken disk and it'd get rid of things like that time a mime put in a secban request because security arrested them for breaking into the vault and stealing the nuke (since, yanno, the nuke would actually be a thing to guard)

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:20 am #111513

I'd prefer code solutions like that or the turret over policy changes.

Post by **oranges** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:22 am #111518

I've asked WJ to readd teh syndicate shuttle turrets,

I have no idea why they disappeared in the first place

I suspect foul play.

Hopefully that should fix things

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

[quote="Screemonster" it'd get rid of things like that time a mime put in a secban request because security arrested them for breaking into the vault and stealing the nuke (since, yanno, the nuke would actually be a thing to guard)[/quote]

That was the prime reason that I added the Station Self Destruct Terminal (The big nuke egg) in the first place

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:06 pm #114306

A bit of a necropost

But, if the ops just emag their way through the station, is it alright to go

"Oh, all the emagged doors are leading to this solar array, their ship is probably here" and then go ransack it?

Don't space the nuke and all that, I get, but is it in the wrong to use the ops boarding point to locate the shuttle?

Is it wrong to take it for a joyride after one locates it?

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:38 pm #114313

I don't really care what you do onboard it, you can put six max cap prox sensor welcoming gifts on it along with spacing the nuke for all I care. What matters is whether you were searching the syndie shuttle docking points at roundstart for no reason or not.

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:23 pm #114320

Oh, if it's just about roundstart meta searching, never mind then.

I thought we were starting to get on about not touching the shuttle ever

Fayrik · Post by **Fayrik** » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:52 pm #114341

Why don't we just let the nuke ops chose where to land the shuttle? Given that now that we have shuttle code that can handle that sort of crazy idea.

I mean, sure, you could crash directly onto the bridge, but it'd risk destroying the disk, and there literally wouldn't be a louder entrance you could make.
(Or, you could have the game ensure there's nothing clipping within the shuttle's docking box, for all you fun haters out there.)

Incomptinence · Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:55 am

They have a pretty alright array choices already a lot of them go at south east of engineering/solars and get meta'd though because it is a popular boarding point with advantages like option of hitting grav gen, board storage for subversion etc.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

One simple tactic is to have the nuker who plants the tcomms bomb go back to the shuttle while the others getdat fukkendisk, and either muller people as they try to decon their way in or move it to a different prearranged spot

Post by **Cobby** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:00 pm #114649

Looking for shuttles at roundstart FNR = bad,

Finding the shuttle for whatever reason = ok,

What you do past then should be up to you. If you don't want people messing with the shuttle then have one guy move it to another location and make them defend.

The reason why code solutions should ALWAYS be chosen over rule solutions is because enforcing someone through code isn't immershun breaking like getting bwoinked with "pls don't do that sir". We're trying to move things away from administration / towards IC, not the other way.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:30 pm #114663

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:One simple tactic is to have the nuker who plants the tcomms bomb go back to the shuttle while the others getdat fukkendisk, and either muller people as they try to decon their way in or move it to a different prearranged spot

*muller

Did I play planetside 2 with you?

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Planetside 2 killed my PC for good so probbably not.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:22 am #116233

Dunno if this thread is old or not, but why is there a MG turret on the shuttle in its walls now? I find it unnecessary, since if you followed the nukeops to their shuttle you should deserve a chance to fight (implying they either left blast windows open or you stole a card from them)

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:47 am #116237

kevinz000 wrote:Dunno if this thread is old or not, but why is there a MG turret on the shuttle in its walls now? I find it unnecessary, since if you followed the nukeops to their shuttle you should deserve a chance to fight (implying they either left blast windows open or you stole a card from them)

While I agree it was a code change and not a policy change

I guess the people who made it feel that people should NEVER be on the nuke ship

Post by **lumipharon** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:49 am #116238

Because you can just roam around the station as soon as someone call ops, find the shuttle an 'lelnot meta', weld through a wall and space the nuke/move the shuttle.
it's fucking shit, and nofunning blueballer keep fucking doing it.

The turrets didn't even fix this, because you can still safely break into the ship on more then 50% of the hull that isn't protected by turrets.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:06 am #116290

Whats the range on the turrets anyway?

If you're trying to do proper assault you should being using a jetpack to stabilise you whilst you pop the turrets from a safe distance using projectile weapons.

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:23 am #116307

Screen range, from what I recall.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:47 am #116838

Takeguru wrote:Screen range, from what I recall.

Can't you bust in from the bottom of the ship in the turrets blind spot? I can't remember if you need a bomb (not even a maxcap, like 2 or 3 ping gibtonite) or can actually weld through it at no risk to yourself.