Revolution changes

[Miauw]

Bottom post of the previous page:

i always thought rev was supposed to the be the "letting off steam" gamemode where people just run around and work out all their frustrations on everyone.

there is one thing rev does well, and that is being a massive fucking clusterfuck of death and hurt feelings.

Anyone played Spy on Goon? Isn't it like Rev, but better?

Read about it on the Goon wiki. It sounds very similar to and also the exact opposite of Rev. The difference is Spy is about being sneaky to take control.

>goon
>sneaky

[Cipher3]

Maybe the revs should already be chosen. They should react uniquely when prodded/beaten with the Space Law book.
Or there are still rev heads, but can only radicalize their coworkers. also, fuck flashes, it should be something more visible, maybe even audible, like a emote+chant combo. I mean, you are radicalizing a Nanotrasen employee to leave everything behind in order to fight for a cause and assume control. And talks of rebellion should be scary to witness. So it should be a dangerous process to convert, like it should take a while, usually willingly, but also a chance of not working and the rev head can't try again. Maybe even a message making it clear it can't work and both know this. That way they have a choice of keeping quiet or attacking rev head since they didn't get antaged.

At the round end, if the heads win, it shouldn't say they won. It should say the crew won. And it should be visible they are revs upon examination, or maybe a little tougher, like with the Space Law thing I said. I'd like to encourage more like an RP thing where people willingly join the cause. I like the suicide bomb idea. Weak blast but perfect gib radius. Takes one antag out and one target too. Maybe the point shouldn't be just killing heads. It should be assuming control, like a Peoples Liberation Front. Assuming control should probably mean removing the captain of course, but certain crew members, and these should be impossible to radicalize. They should be called influentials or Nanotrasen loyalists. Pre-implanted, opposed to rebellion, and have a valid antag license only for rebels. Revheads should probably get an uplink with guerrilla-style weapons. Door operated pipe bomb traps, floor tile mines, suicide bomb vests, improvised pipe bombs that are powerful but have chance of exploding immeadiately. You know, crude and sketchy weaponry that works well but has a chance of cutting your round short.

Just some thoughts.

This either breaks the gamemode (revs aren't inherently overpowered, they lose all the time as it is) or turns us into Baystation.

[MisterPerson]

Revolution's major flaw is everything that happens with revs after sec catches them. Once implanted, security has either gotten a confirmed kill or turned an enemy into an unquestionable ally along with knowledge of who to go kill. This turns rev into a stupid affair where sec's optimal strategy is implant spam, no matter what. A single OP strategy shuts down alternatives which removes player choice. Player choice is what makes games fun. Thus I feel the real issues with rev all stem from loyalty implants and how obviously spamming them is the best strategy during rev.

[Cipher3]

Revolution's major flaw is everything that happens with revs after sec catches them. Once implanted, security has either gotten a confirmed kill or turned an enemy into an unquestionable ally along with knowledge of who to go kill. This turns rev into a stupid affair where sec's optimal strategy is implant spam, no matter what. A single OP strategy shuts down alternatives which removes player choice. Player choice is what makes games fun. Thus I feel the real issues with rev all stem from loyalty implants and how obviously spamming them is the best strategy during rev.

Thank you. With that we have a clearly defined inherent flaw:
"Loyalty implants are spammable items that provide instant and permanent anti-rev soldiers that know the name of at least one revhead."
Which we can look into fixing in order to bring variety to Rev strategies.

[Arete]

The text that displays when you get deconverted does suggest that you're supposed to 'forget' who flashed you, at least.

[ExplosiveCrate]

It's surprisingly easy to be stealthy on goon, with all the hidden nooks and crannies, plants that you can hide in, and the ability to switch outfits instantly.

[cedarbridge]

The text that displays when you get deconverted does suggest that you're supposed to 'forget' who flashed you, at least.

You forget everyone EXCEPT who flashed you.

[Pennwick]

Revolution's major flaw is everything that happens with revs after sec catches them. Once implanted, security has either gotten a confirmed kill or turned an enemy into an unquestionable ally along with knowledge of who to go kill. This turns rev into a stupid affair where sec's optimal strategy is implant spam, no matter what. A single OP strategy shuts down alternatives which removes player choice. Player choice is what makes games fun. Thus I feel the real issues with rev all stem from loyalty implants and how obviously spamming them is the best strategy during rev.

Hmmm. Could delaying the start of the flashings help with this too? Hear me out. If the revs are forced to plan a little before they start going on their Viva spree the smarter ones can go get some face covering equipment and hide their identity while converting, they wont be able to talk but they can write, and with a stolen or given PDA they can text too. Plus it gives them a little time to work on draining Cargo's point budget. Either by making frivolous requests or if you can manage it, setting yourself up to flash a tech and order stuff that helps you shut down the authorities. Suddenly security only can order one more case of implants if they're lucky and even when they stick someone they can only give a vague description.

Nothing stops this from happening now of course but even if one person had the idea Revheads 2 and 3 could easily mess it all up.

[MedicInDisquise]

As a head, even with foresight and the entirery of the armory you're going to get raped by a thousand assistants who was flashed at roundstart getting his cablecuffs.

The problem is that it is not at all fun for the head side. There's only 5 of you with the security team behind your back. And if no security spawns or there's like 2 heads, you're screwed. Seriously.

Edit: For an actual idea, instead of flashers just have loyalty implants that make you loyal to the cause. That makes it a whole lot better and slower for the revs to gain monentum and disarm spam the CMO when he's cloning. This also makes the CMO valuable for loyalists besides cloning rights, as they can remove the implants.

Edit2: Rev is a war of attrition. Except that one side makes units every 5 seconds, and the other side makes then every minute or so.

[Raven776]

As a head, even with foresight and the entirery of the armory you're going to get raped by a thousand assistants who was flashed at roundstart getting his cablecuffs.

The problem is that it is not at all fun for the head side. There's only 5 of you with the security team behind your back. And if no security spawns or there's like 2 heads, you're screwed. Seriously.

Edit: For an actual idea, instead of flashers just have loyalty implants that make you loyal to the cause. That makes it a whole lot better and slower for the revs to gain monentum and disarm spam the CMO when he's cloning. This also makes the CMO valuable for loyalists besides cloning rights, as they can remove the implants.

Edit2: Rev is a war of attrition. Except that one side makes units every 5 seconds, and the other side makes then every minute or so.

A good HoS (or captain/HoP if no HoS is around) will rally up his troops and start implanting people the moment a rev or cultist call goes out.

And a good rev round will go for medical and cargo first, to keep cargo from getting more implants and because the BEST thing to do in a rev round is ripping out loyalty implants.

I think my favorite ever cultist round was one where the implant got ripped out of me early as security, I got converted, and they loyalty implanted me against to get rid of suspicion...

Hell, just get cargo. They can print off the tools to do surgery. When security comes in to get their implants, stunbaton them, strip their comms, and bring them to a maint tunnel set up for this.

[Cipher3]

Edit2: Rev is a war of attrition. Except that one side makes units every 5 seconds, and the other side makes then every minute or so.

Except:
-Those units made by the other side remove one unit from the original in the process
-The new units for the other side can then tattle on one person who leads the original side
-The other side is immediately much better-armed, with elements of universal access, whereas its opponent can only get what it can get quickly and is restricted to whatever access they can find
-The other side can communicate freely over the radio, their opponents generally transmit through mob and being in the same room.

[MisterPerson]

The statistics gathered say that long rev rounds = heads of staff win while shorter rounds are more likely to be rev wins. This lines up with the facts; more time is more implants and implanted people cannot be easily converted back to the revolution. Revs also have a slightly below average win rate.

As a head, even with foresight and the entirery of the armory you're going to get raped by a thousand assistants who was flashed at roundstart getting his cablecuffs.

The problem is that it is not at all fun for the head side. There's only 5 of you with the security team behind your back. And if no security spawns or there's like 2 heads, you're screwed. Seriously.

Edit: For an actual idea, instead of flashers just have loyalty implants that make you loyal to the cause. That makes it a whole lot better and slower for the revs to gain monentum and disarm spam the CMO when he's cloning. This also makes the CMO valuable for loyalists besides cloning rights, as they can remove the implants.

Edit2: Rev is a war of attrition. Except that one side makes units every 5 seconds, and the other side makes then every minute or so.

At least you can talk quickly and easily with your loyalists. Rev heads do not get that luxury.

I like the idea of implant-based revolutionary conversion, although I wonder how exactly a rev head would generate more implants. Perhaps they have a PDA they can buy them from that slowly generates telecrystals? Or maybe they only get a certain amount depending on the size of the crew? Kind of makes latejoiners suck but I do like that the revolutionaries slowly lose the war of attrition. It drives them to act sooner rather than later. Hell, another option is that the revolutionaries start converted at round-start.

[MedicInDisquise]

Perhaps they spawn with the contents of a single lockbox in a box in their bookbag.
I'd like to imagine these implants can only make someone loyal to the cause if you're a rev, and loyal to the station if you're a loyalist/neutral. This also has the side affect of revs being able to buy implants from cargo.