Bring back old cult new cult has devolved into golemfest

[Bombadil]

Old cult used to convert people. Old cult used to use Constructs sparingly. New cult is fucking golem armies murdering the entire station.

I miss the subtelty

New cult is combination of incomplete cult overhauls that make the game type complete and utter shit for anyone not playing cult and for those who play cult.

[deathhoof]

But being a construct is fun. Especially wraith. I love to pop in, beat someone up, then pop back out.

[Scones]

But being a construct is fun. Especially wraith. I love to pop in, beat someone up, then pop back out.

But is it fun for them? It's nice as Security to have firefights with the cult and then be like "oh shit look at that one robot monster better kill it"
However it's pretty fucking lame when it is instead just "OH GO ROBOT GHOST ARMY RUN FOR YOU LIVES"

[Bombadil]

But being a construct is fun. Especially wraith. I love to pop in, beat someone up, then pop back out.

But is it fun for them? It's nice as Security to have firefights with the cult and then be like "oh shit look at that one robot monster better kill it"
However it's pretty fucking lame when it is instead just "OH GO ROBOT GHOST ARMY RUN FOR YOU LIVES"

It used to be so much fun knocking people out dragging them into maintenance or a secret rune room and converting them seeign your cultist army grow.

Now you need 3 chucklefucks who might fuck it up by not standing close enough to the rune

[paprika]

Converting = revs
Sacrificing into bony piles and forcing people into construct slavery = cult/optional wiz loadout

[Bombadil]

Converting = revs
Sacrificing into bony piles and forcing people into construct slavery = cult/optional wiz loadout

The goal of cult isn't even to fucking make golems its to convert people and sacrifice or summon narsie and sacrifice.


New cult is fucking shit. No one uses the rune system anymore why do that when you can make a fucking golem army? Fuck off Paprika.


New cult is shit its a bunch of shitty unfinished overhauls mashed together that makes converting too hard and making a golem army far too simple.

Narsie barely even gets summoned anymore its a fucking travesty

[paprika]

Blame malkevin

Also they're not called golems, xenobiology makes golems, cults make constructs

[Xhuis]

Converting = revs
Sacrificing into bony piles and forcing people into construct slavery = cult/optional wiz loadout

The goal of cult isn't even to fucking make golems its to convert people and sacrifice or summon narsie and sacrifice.


New cult is fucking shit. No one uses the rune system anymore why do that when you can make a fucking golem army? Fuck off Paprika.


New cult is shit its a bunch of shitty unfinished overhauls mashed together that makes converting too hard and making a golem army far too simple.

Narsie barely even gets summoned anymore its a fucking travesty

While you made your point in a very aggressive way, I do agree. I don't think cult should be based around golems, and I feel that the old cult was better (the convert-focused one). Honestly, I think golems kind of destroy the point of any cult; typically, a cult tries to strengthen its numbers as much as possible, and that isn't really accomplished when the method people use to do so impairs the converts (i.e. turning them into golems).

[cedarbridge]

Blame malkevin

Also they're not called golems, xenobiology makes golems, cults make constructs

Today we did both, though I was under the impression that nobody had made any constructs at all. I converted a shit ton of golems though. Fun times in xenocult.

[Steelpoint]

From what I recall Malk had a larger plan with a revamp with Cult, and the current iteration was the first phase of the revamp with the future iterations fixing the problem we have right now.

I don't know exactly why but someone made Malk quite coding.

[Ergovisavi]

>Previous cult
>Subtle

Right, because slipcult mass conversion in a hallway wasn't the easiest way to handle things.

I think constructs make cult more interesting, the more asymmetrical gameplay we have, the better, in my opinion.

[Bombadil]

>Previous cult
>Subtle

Right, because slipcult mass conversion in a hallway wasn't the easiest way to handle things.

I think constructs make cult more interesting, the more asymmetrical gameplay we have, the better, in my opinion.

The problem is some of the goals are still for cult to convert 15 people and sacrifice someone. If we are going to make cult more asymmetrical just make the golem thing their one and only thing while making their goal to always be to summon narsie. Requires x amount of dead bodies or some shit like that

[Malkevin]

I basically realised I was doing a lot of hard graft for a bunch of ungrateful cunts.
Mainly it was Giacom being a moaning tosser because ForcefulCJ threw an autistic rant on github.
The players I could deal with, the maintainers on the other hand were unworkable.

But yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't want to leave it unfinished and I still hate that I did, but I had to because certain people made coding such a completely unenjoyable experience I had to leave for my own sanity.

[Xhuis]

I basically realised I was doing a lot of hard graft for a bunch of ungrateful cunts.
Mainly it was Giacom being a moaning tosser because ForcefulCJ threw an autistic rant on github.
The players I could deal with, the maintainers on the other hand were unworkable.

But yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't want to leave it unfinished and I still hate that I did, but I had to because certain people made coding such a completely unenjoyable experience I had to leave for my own sanity.

Don't worry about it, you weren't the cause of the problem (the cause was those who put on so much pressure). The main issue, I feel, is that a lot of people like the new cult and will get angry whenever anyone wants to revert back to the old cult.

[omnitricks]

Simple solution. Constructs cannot use runes (especially narnar and conversion runes) and constructs do not count to the escape objective. This will cause the cultists to make constructs sparingly especially in the early game or risk losing out on their greentext. Constructs should be when the cult has their objectives and want to go loud to get the shuttle called or when things get fubar and they have no other choice but to murderbone in order to at least have a chance to survive and start over.

I personally do NOT enjoy playing a construct. I have no hands. I have to obey murderous chucklefucks that actually have the option to convert me but refuse to because "oh constructs stronk" even if I surrender sometimes to stay alive. Normally if I am force constructed when the cultists actually have the option to convert me I play extremely incompetently (smashing walls, getting caught, not killing well, not defending well, etc) or just get on my own way before they can command me to do anything especially if its early in the game where they expect me to hide somewhere dark and boring for 30 minutes.

Constructs are a good way to keep people in the game but they are boring and annoying as hell to play.

[omnitricks]

Ban me from team antag rounds? What for? For not wanting to play the best I can because I don't want to be a construct? Yes if I am ordered to go hunt or chase people, I will. I will just make a whole lot of mistakes that will benefit the other side more than if I am playing a construct wholeheartedly. If they start making constructs after things are fubar for cult or cult goes loud, I will play as normal but before that? Just to say that constructs are better than converting and expecting me to wait in the dark maint for 30 minutes? No way. I am going to get helluva lot bored and start smashing up the whole maint.

Its not to say that I do not make constructs but I normally make constructs when everything goes to heck for cultists (aka sec knocking on my door or we are in an all out war where time is of the essence) Definitely not immediately when the round starts and definitely not when the cultists are capable of converting me no problems. I played a rare round a few days back where the cult ACTUALLY promised not to kill me and convert me eventhough I was yelling for help just a minute before that. I can damn well tell you I was doing my best at that time to contribute and help the cult win.

The problem is that people currently have the mentality that constructs are better than converts whether or not the other party wants to be a construct. I've captured people alive or have them surrendered before to be converted but you know what happens? While waiting at the convert rune some asshat will grab them to a sac rune or shard them because "lol constructs."

And yes banning me from team antag roles would help soooooo much because constructs are selected as constructs at round start. Even if I am banned from team antags I will still be made a construct by some jerkoff which could have converted me which will force me to repeat the incompetent construct playstyle because like I pointed out I do not like playing a construct. Not especially when the cult could have otherwise converted me no problem at the time and they have no pressing need for a construct but make me a construct anyway because "lelz superior slaves that have to obey me"

[adrix89]

Once slow space is fixed, and we are out of the stupid feature freeze(if its a thing anymore) I plan to make some changes to cult, to my original vision.

Here is what I plan to change:
- Revert the changes to contructs, so no more plastell creation and shit, artificer create shells and shards with magic missile, constructs can't use runes and don't count as objectives.
- All constructs and shades become spess worthy and hover like jetpacks(this is why slow space needs to be reverted)
- Shades can move through walls, have nightvision, shades can respawn in shards if destroyed, add the ability to destroy shards, might make them be able to use some runes(not all).
- Runes that require multiple cultists will have their activation range increased.(genius/10)
- Sacrifice and convert requires 2 cultists but has a blood(health) penalty,with 3 cultist it has no penalty, with special equipment you can convert/sacrifice alone at a cost of considerable blood loss.
- Remover starter armor and construct talisman.
- Improve talismans, have multiple uses, have a bloodsuck talisman.
- Change objectives and starter cultists.
- Armor changed to transmute, new equipment for cult.

[Malkevin]

Are you still going to add those over powered sacrifice rewards that everybody hated?

[Incomptinence]

I liked malk cult sure I had opposition to his planned changes but it was FAR better than EVERYONE IS AN UNDETECTABLE IRREDEEMABLE CULTIST NOW sabbat revcult.

Sabbat cult was only held in check by pure player incompetence but if it ever got off the ground it was over. Absolutely over, I watched JLC (as captain) or any hos bannable harsh or not be incapable of dealing with the mass infiltration of everything.

[adrix89]

Are you still going to add those over powered sacrifice rewards that everybody hated?

Nobody can hate it since nobody played it.
The magic stuff I will probably tone down.

I am thinking of making construct shells a drop(third sacrifice is guaranteed) instead of talismans, this will ensure the need for stealth in the early game.

[paprika]

The only thing in the end that I hated about malk cult is the removal of stun papers, I really don't know how you were meant to convert people unless you raided the armory for guns. Sure converting should be hard, but a lot of the time converting people like the HoP early round is really important and next to impossible without stun papers.

[deathhoof]

I disagree with giving shades wallpass and respawning. They are already too fucking robust. They can drain the life from anyone that slips very quickly then zoom off. If they need health, bam just hop in the crystal.

[adrix89]

I disagree with giving shades wallpass and respawning. They are already too fucking robust. They can drain the life from anyone that slips very quickly then zoom off. If they need health, bam just hop in the crystal.

The problem is they don't have much purpose, with this they can act like scouts and traps.
They have very poor health can can be killed in 2 strikes from most weapons and have very little damage.
Slips have already been nerfed and the speed can be made a little bit slower then a human.

If I implement respawn I would have as 5min cooldown until they can appear again so it isn't that spammy.

[lumipharon]

Regardless of what changes happen, for the love of god, fix emp talismans. They used to be a decent tool against sec, as you could aoe emp their weapons which will greatly help evening the odds. It was also useful for shutting people's headsets off/disabling cameras/borg etc. Currently, you use it, and get BLINDED an disorientated for your troubles.
Talisman take research, then time and space to create, so fuck having them psuedo self stun when you use them.

[Malkevin]

Uhh dude, have you put that in the issue tracker because that's clearly a bug

[lumipharon]

It's been like this literally since the change. I assumed it was intended. I'll put an issue up now then.

[oranges]

Remove runes, embrace golem gameplay, extend golem gameplay.

Add meaningful counters

????
Profit

[Cik]

but i like being an evil cthulhic wizard

[Bombadil]

Once slow space is fixed, and we are out of the stupid feature freeze(if its a thing anymore) I plan to make some changes to cult, to my original vision.

Here is what I plan to change:
- Revert the changes to contructs, so no more plastell creation and shit, artificer create shells and shards with magic missile, constructs can't use runes and don't count as objectives.
- All constructs and shades become spess worthy and hover like jetpacks(this is why slow space needs to be reverted)
- Shades can move through walls, have nightvision, shades can respawn in shards if destroyed, add the ability to destroy shards, might make them be able to use some runes(not all).
- Runes that require multiple cultists will have their activation range increased.(genius/10)
- Sacrifice and convert requires 2 cultists but has a blood(health) penalty,with 3 cultist it has no penalty, with special equipment you can convert/sacrifice alone at a cost of considerable blood loss.
- Remover starter armor and construct talisman.
- Improve talismans, have multiple uses, have a bloodsuck talisman.
- Change objectives and starter cultists.
- Armor changed to transmute, new equipment for cult.

Creates shells and shards with magic missile? What.


Also you should make runes literally drain blood like cultists needblood transfusions and shit. Could be amusing or if they have a blood bag no need for runes

[adrix89]

Creates shells and shards with magic missile? What.

Artificers Yo. That's what they had previously.

Also you should make runes literally drain blood like cultists needblood transfusions and shit. Could be amusing or if they have a blood bag no need for runes

I don't want too complicated stuff, otherwise I would need a blood economy. I will keep things simple, some runes can cause health damage and there will be drain life runes and talismans.