Lets talk about drag speed

[onleavedontatme]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I'm sorry if I read to much into you mentioning murdersprees.

90% of policy and balance threads always seem to have "stuns are stupid" or "murdersprees are stupid" at the root of it though, and nobody really wants to tackle those issues, so we're stuck going in circles messing around at the fringes forever as a general trend.

[Slignerd]

Nukeops: The ops might actually have to dunk the cap and secure the disk without treating non-war OPs like war ops? Break in, dunk the cap, secure the area around the cap as a team, get the disk, get out. The only thing this does is require ops to do something they should have been doing already, stick together and work together. I know we're allergic to teamwork in our gamemodes, but come on. Additionally, "stun/gun cap, speed drag into space gg" is interesting in exactly zero ways.?

> secure the area

Ops can't really do much but play hit and run with captain. They don't have the ammo required to fend off endless waves of security and spear-wielding assistants the moment someone screams ";OPS BRIDGE!!" - C-20r runs out of ammo quick, and there's only two spare magazines in the bundle. To add to that, there's only two/three of ops to actually fend off crew, since one is preoccupied with captain's body.

Obviously, the solution is for ops to simply use body bags. But securing the area is completely unfeasible.

[XDTM]

or, i dunno, take the disk off and leave the cap's body

[cedarbridge]

Nukeops: The ops might actually have to dunk the cap and secure the disk without treating non-war OPs like war ops? Break in, dunk the cap, secure the area around the cap as a team, get the disk, get out. The only thing this does is require ops to do something they should have been doing already, stick together and work together. I know we're allergic to teamwork in our gamemodes, but come on. Additionally, "stun/gun cap, speed drag into space gg" is interesting in exactly zero ways.?

> secure the area

Ops can't really do much but play hit and run with captain. They don't have the ammo required to fend off endless waves of security and spear-wielding assistants the moment someone screams ";OPS BRIDGE!!" - C-20r runs out of ammo quick, and there's only two spare magazines in the bundle. To add to that, there's only two/three of ops to actually fend off crew, since one is preoccupied with captain's body.

Obviously, the solution is for ops to simply use body bags. But securing the area is completely unfeasible.

This doesn't require a full sandbag holdout. Just long enough to loot a corpse.

>blam
>kill confirmed
>disk in hand
>time to go

Takes a few seconds in a static position which can be a little testing, but its not really that bad. Alternatively, the syndicate ship has bodybags so there's plenty of incentive to use one.

[ShadowDimentio]

Stop trying to make this a thing, no coder would ever make this because they'd have to rewrite half the fucking game to make it not ruin every mode. Get good.

[cedarbridge]

Stop trying to make this a thing, no coder would ever make this because they'd have to rewrite half the fucking game to make it not ruin every mode. Get good.

Thanks for your reasoned feedback to the idea itself and not just screeching.

[Slignerd]

Alternatively, the syndicate ship has bodybags so there's plenty of incentive to use one.

Actually, they don't seem to be any. Perhaps a box of body bags should be added.

[Lazengann]

I wish people noticed my idea of requiring two free hands.

Acknowledge meee!

Just introduce the fireman's carry, takes both hands but you can also throw them

[PKPenguin321]

What prompted Cedarbridge to create this thread?

[cedarbridge]

Actually, they don't seem to be any. Perhaps a box of body bags should be added.

huh, could have sworn there was one. That's an easy fix though.

What prompted Cedarbridge to create this thread?

Nothing specific actually. Just sounded like something I hadn't properly put into words and decided to post.

[PKPenguin321]

If there's no specific issue, why are we all of the sudden complaining and wanting to change something that previously had no real complaints? Seems like a pointless change, especially because if somebody runs you can shoot them provided that you have a gun. It's not without counterplay.

I think this topic came up a few years ago, maybe a PR too, and it got shot down because it turned out to be really lame. I expect the same will happen here if this gets to that point.

[Dr_bee]

If there's no specific issue, why are we all of the sudden complaining and wanting to change something that previously had no real complaints? Seems like a pointless change, especially because if somebody runs you can shoot them provided that you have a gun. It's not without counterplay.

I think this topic came up a few years ago, maybe a PR too, and it got shot down because it turned out to be really lame. I expect the same will happen here if this gets to that point.

It in theory would force combat over bodies instead of just running away at full speed, it would make fights a bit more serious if you cant drag your comrade out of it quickly or cant drag your victim into maint or some dank corner to never be found because you run exactly as fast as everyone else while dragging a 200 pound human.

Plus it would give roller beds an actual purpose.

I had a similar idea of dragging people in crit actually doing damage to them like they have on Baymed stations but I think a slowdown would work a bit better.

[cedarbridge]

If there's no specific issue, why are we all of the sudden complaining and wanting to change something that previously had no real complaints? Seems like a pointless change, especially because if somebody runs you can shoot them provided that you have a gun. It's not without counterplay.

I think this topic came up a few years ago, maybe a PR too, and it got shot down because it turned out to be really lame. I expect the same will happen here if this gets to that point.

It in theory would force combat over bodies instead of just running away at full speed, it would make fights a bit more serious if you cant drag your comrade out of it quickly or cant drag your victim into maint or some dank corner to never be found because you run exactly as fast as everyone else while dragging a 200 pound human.

Plus it would give roller beds an actual purpose.

I had a similar idea of dragging people in crit actually doing damage to them like they have on Baymed stations but I think a slowdown would work a bit better.

What he said. It doesn't require a specific incident to motivate change.

[XDTM]

If there's no specific issue, why are we all of the sudden complaining and wanting to change something that previously had no real complaints? Seems like a pointless change, especially because if somebody runs you can shoot them provided that you have a gun. It's not without counterplay.

I think this topic came up a few years ago, maybe a PR too, and it got shot down because it turned out to be really lame. I expect the same will happen here if this gets to that point.

It in theory would force combat over bodies instead of just running away at full speed, it would make fights a bit more serious if you cant drag your comrade out of it quickly or cant drag your victim into maint or some dank corner to never be found because you run exactly as fast as everyone else while dragging a 200 pound human.

Plus it would give roller beds an actual purpose.

I had a similar idea of dragging people in crit actually doing damage to them like they have on Baymed stations but I think a slowdown would work a bit better.

What he said. It doesn't require a specific incident to motivate change.

Just because a thing doesn't cause outstanding issues it doesn't mean it's the best possible thing.

[onleavedontatme]

I think this topic came up a few years ago

Yeah, I was the one of the ones who proposed it.

I had a similar idea of dragging people in crit actually doing damage to them

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/18241

[ShadowDimentio]

Stop trying to make this a thing, no coder would ever make this because they'd have to rewrite half the fucking game to make it not ruin every mode. Get good.

Thanks for your reasoned feedback to the idea itself and not just screeching.

"It's completely unfeasible and nobody would ever go through with this" is excellent feedback you mongoloid, so you're welcome.

[Dr_bee]

Stop trying to make this a thing, no coder would ever make this because they'd have to rewrite half the fucking game to make it not ruin every mode. Get good.

Thanks for your reasoned feedback to the idea itself and not just screeching.

"It's completely unfeasible and nobody would ever go through with this" is excellent feedback you mongoloid, so you're welcome.

I Think some specifics would help somewhat, why exactly would the coders need to rewrite half the fucking game. be specific, have some hypotheticals to support your claim instead of just saying it is shit with no elaboration.

[cedarbridge]

Stop trying to make this a thing, no coder would ever make this because they'd have to rewrite half the fucking game to make it not ruin every mode. Get good.

Thanks for your reasoned feedback to the idea itself and not just screeching.

"It's completely unfeasible and nobody would ever go through with this" is excellent feedback you mongoloid, so you're welcome.

1) What would have to be rewritten and why? If you give no examples this is just an asspull.
2) Your statement amounts to "nobody will ever change a part of the game system because it interacts with ther parts of the game" which is retarded on face.

[ShadowDimentio]

Conversion: Have fun getting that stunned guy to a rune before he chelps/wakes up
Sec: Have fun getting that stunned guy to a cell before his buddies maul you
Murder: Have fun getting that stunned guy away from sec before they kill you, and have extra double fun getting that ling corpse to the incinerator/gibber before they wake up, EMP scream, monkey form and bail
Saving: Have fun getting that dying guy to medbay before he dies
Following: Have fun getting around with your buddy and never getting lost when him pulling you slows you both to a crawl

Literally the entire game, and you've actually failed to read your own thread because Kor already covered this multiple times over.

And nobody will do this because It's a shit idea that actually nobody wants that fixes something that nobody complained about (an absurd rarity in this game) and adds a UNGODLY workload to whatever coder would PR this because it'd be THEIR job to fix all of the above issues that got broken to shit by the change.

[cedarbridge]

Conversion: Have fun getting that stunned guy to a rune before he chelps/wakes up
Sec: Have fun getting that stunned guy to a cell before his buddies maul you
Murder: Have fun getting that stunned guy away from sec before they kill you, and have extra double fun getting that ling corpse to the incinerator/gibber before they wake up, EMP scream, monkey form and bail
Saving: Have fun getting that dying guy to medbay before he dies
Following: Have fun getting around with your buddy and never getting lost when him pulling you slows you both to a crawl

Literally the entire game, and you've actually failed to read your own thread because Kor already covered this multiple times over.

And nobody will do this because It's a shit idea that actually nobody wants that fixes something that nobody complained about (an absurd rarity in this game) and adds a UNGODLY workload to whatever coder would PR this because it'd be THEIR job to fix all of the above issues that got broken to shit by the change.

So you're saying what we're proposing will cause people to fight over bodies instead of turbodragging them the length of the station with just a flash or a baton and no counterplay? Gee whiz SD. Its like this is intentional.

Cult: You shouldn't be papering people in a visible public hallway anyway so that's on you. Removing headsets during the stun/mute should already be standard practice, so again, on you. Get good.

Sec: This is literally only an issue in rev and it works both ways. They can't just snag the guy you're arresting and speed off down the hallway. Sec should already be working in concert to handle revs. Further, the revs can't just single stun the captain and zip him off from the brig to the escape wing while Officer Clueless watches on helplessly, forever unable to catch the guy dragging the fully armored captain's 200lbs+ girth with both hands full of weapons.

Murder: So you're saying that the discussion about this dunking lazy murderboning would work? A+ glad we're on the same page. Code and merge immediately.

Lings: Lings are intentionally hard to keep down by design and have gone through several levels of design iteration. Again, sec should be working as at least a pair to put the ling away for good, not just some solo hero zipping up the hallways dualweilding weapons.

Med: Now, I'm going to propose a really crazy idea, but what if instead of speed dragging your buddy to medbay to toss him into cryo you called medbay for help instead? You know, the guys who are supposed to heal people? I understand they have roller beds and medical supplies they can use to save your buddy. I know you're allergic to dealing with doctors because you've said as much in other threads where you whine about things you can't self-heal with a bruisepack, but that's not anyone else's problem. Everyone gets a free epipen including your dying buddy. Use it and call for help from people with the tools, materials and job to do so.

Following: "I can't keep track of a guy because he moves to quickly." Literally what. 1) Both of you are likely standing so there's no "dragging" involved here. You're two uncuffed, standing people. There's no reason for a slowdown to be applied to this so why is this even included? 2) Maybe you could, ideas man here, talk to your buddy to figure out where you're going?

And then you just repeat yourself. I'm starting to think there's merit to the "If SD hates something it has to be a good idea" meme.

[ShadowDimentio]

>Demands examples
>Examples are provided
>The examples of this being impossible to implement are hand-waved aside as worthy sacrifices that everyone should just accept already

Ok.

And you can keep telling yourself I'm always wrong and you're always right, whatever helps you sleep at night my dude

[Dr_bee]

>Demands examples
>Examples are provided
>The examples of this being impossible to implement are hand-waved aside as worthy sacrifices that everyone should just accept already

Ok.

And you can keep telling yourself I'm always wrong and you're always right, whatever helps you sleep at night my dude

Personal attacks dont help the discussion at all. What you seem to worry about is that the gameplay will change, that is the goal here. people will have to adapt thier playstyle to this change and hopefully more plays and counterplays will develop. being vulnerable when dragging people also had the wonderful bonus of making teamwork more important, which is something that should always be encouraged in this game.

[cedarbridge]

>Demands examples
>Examples are provided
>The examples of this being impossible to implement are hand-waved aside as worthy sacrifices that everyone should just accept already

I responded to your examples and told you why they aren't actually problems. You then whined that contesting your examples is "handwaving." If you want to be taken seriously, spend more time defending your position and less time lazily trying to attack me.

[oranges]

stop responding to shadow dimention posts, none of the maintainers take him seriously so you don't need to argue with him.

[Dr_bee]

stop responding to shadow dimention posts, none of the maintainers take him seriously so you don't need to argue with him.

That being said, could drag speed be made into a Var or something? it would be interesting to temporarily playtest slower dragging for a few days, just to see what happens.

[ShadowDimentio]

Personal attacks dont help the discussion at all. What you seem to worry about is that the gameplay will change, that is the goal here. people will have to adapt thier playstyle to this change and hopefully more plays and counterplays will develop. being vulnerable when dragging people also had the wonderful bonus of making teamwork more important, which is something that should always be encouraged in this game.

You want a detailed response? Fine.

I don't care that the gameplay is changing, I care that the gameplay is changing in a bad direction for a bad reason. Cedarbridge hates murderboning, and to a lesser extent death in general. They want this change because they think it'll make it harder on the murderboners, and there they'd be extremely wrong.

Murderboners have the entire station at their fingertips, there's literally infinite ways to kill someone, and for a half-decent murderboner killing someone in a few seconds is easy. In that infinite amount of ways to kill people, murders that occur where the murderboner drags someone away from a bunch of pursuers, the extremely specific scenario that Cedarbridge is complaining about, is beyond rare for antags to perform.

Lets say he somehow magically got his way and you moved half as fast if you were dragging something/someone. Would the murderboner in the extremely rare circumstance that Cedarbridge is complaining about continue killing people in that way? No, they would just kill the person straight out. Congratulations, you failed to stop the murderboner from murderboning and only succeeded in making an extremely rare tactic obsolete.

But at what cost did that miniscule victory for Cedarbridge come at? Everyone else had to play by the same rules the murderboner did, and a shitload of work has to now go into damage control, fixing all the things that are broken now that dragging people is completely inviable.

tl;dr Everyone gets to be annoyed by this while the murderboners (the target) are practically unaffected

[ShadowDimentio]

And for good measure I'll do these too.

So you're saying what we're proposing will cause people to fight over bodies instead of turbodragging them the length of the station with just a flash or a baton and no counterplay? Gee whiz SD. Its like this is intentional.

Cult: You shouldn't be papering people in a visible public hallway anyway so that's on you. Removing headsets during the stun/mute should already be standard practice, so again, on you. Get good.

Of course a decent cult guy does that, but every second you spend dragging a neutralized soon-convert back to the base is a second LITERALLY ANYONE has to notice you dragging someone around, an EXTREMELY obvious tell that you're rogue, and to then call your location and names out. Congratulations, you just ruined the round because now sec is going to roll your ass.

Sec: This is literally only an issue in rev and it works both ways. They can't just snag the guy you're arresting and speed off down the hallway. Sec should already be working in concert to handle revs. Further, the revs can't just single stun the captain and zip him off from the brig to the escape wing while Officer Clueless watches on helplessly, forever unable to catch the guy dragging the fully armored captain's 200lbs+ girth with both hands full of weapons.

It's a two way street, sec can steal high-profile rev targets and run while the revs can steal high-profile head targets and run. This is a null point though, because the "grab and flee" tactic is near exclusively used by sec, as they're nearly always extremely sorely lacking in manpower, while the revs have literally the entire station. Also, it's an issue in every mode, it'd be absolutely laughably easy to kill a sec target dragging someone to the brig as any antag as they'd be moving at half speed.

Murder: So you're saying that the discussion about this dunking lazy murderboning would work? A+ glad we're on the same page. Code and merge immediately.

Not really, "grab and run" is only rarely employed by antags as blowing your cover is suicide, especially if sec immediately goes aggro on you. Also, see the other post for why this would do nothing to make murderboning more difficult.

Lings: Lings are intentionally hard to keep down by design and have gone through several levels of design iteration. Again, sec should be working as at least a pair to put the ling away for good, not just some solo hero zipping up the hallways dualweilding weapons.

Don't even get me started on how fucking stupid lings are, I can't tell you how many times I've killed a ling (a huge fucking task due to how the faggots are A: impossible to detect when they aren't in the middle of showing themselves B: extremely resistant to everything, including DEATH C: extremely evasive D: extremely dangerous) only for them to escape as I try to run to an incinerator on the far end of the map and have them melt my cuffs and run away at full health speed instantly. Making killing lings even more fucking obnoxious to kill is the height of stupidity, especially from someone who hates lazy murderbones with lings being the ascendant GODS of it.

Med: Now, I'm going to propose a really crazy idea, but what if instead of speed dragging your buddy to medbay to toss him into cryo you called medbay for help instead? You know, the guys who are supposed to heal people? I understand they have roller beds and medical supplies they can use to save your buddy. I know you're allergic to dealing with doctors because you've said as much in other threads where you whine about things you can't self-heal with a bruisepack, but that's not anyone else's problem. Everyone gets a free epipen including your dying buddy. Use it and call for help from people with the tools, materials and job to do so.

Medbay is staffed with MAYBE one competent doctor a shift, if you're LUCKY. Forcing people to rely on that one decent doctor who may not even exist is only going to help the lazy murderboner who only has to crit people for them to almost certainly die, as there's no way that help will arrive on time.

Following: "I can't keep track of a guy because he moves to quickly." Literally what. 1) Both of you are likely standing so there's no "dragging" involved here. You're two uncuffed, standing people. There's no reason for a slowdown to be applied to this so why is this even included? 2) Maybe you could, ideas man here, talk to your buddy to figure out where you're going?

This was a shitty example I'll admit

[FantasticFwoosh]

If there's no specific issue, why are we all of the sudden complaining and wanting to change something that previously had no real complaints? Seems like a pointless change, especially because if somebody runs you can shoot them provided that you have a gun. It's not without counterplay.

I think this topic came up a few years ago, maybe a PR too, and it got shot down because it turned out to be really lame. I expect the same will happen here if this gets to that point.

*cough*

I think dragging is fine as it is, since there is different ways to do it and it's mutually exclusive to creatures (normally) with a grip of some sort. If you want to drag someone you have options you are not obliged to follow, the goofgrab PR kind of crash and burned, and right now i think we are in a okayish place for pulling unless we recieve a serious system/gameplay change like a realised unit weight system.

- Normal station function as well as trying to save people would be slower since people also like to pull machines & objects around, lings directly rely on being dragged quick to a cremator or a gibber in order to be killed, though it would incentivise alternative methods of carrying a corpse.

And we do take the logic that things in a bag even though they would be heavy enough to physically break your legs in real life AKA minecraft carrying 64 blocks of solid gold or a full 50 stack of refined solid minerals is heavier than the entire earth (or of a significant unrealistic weight) etc etc. The weight is only determined by the size.

---

Just ignoring the above detailed response for a bit while im digesting the content, there's a lot of strawman battering by both shadow & cedar in there.

I don't care that the gameplay is changing, I care that the gameplay is changing in a bad direction for a bad reason. Cedarbridge hates murderboning, and to a lesser extent death in general. They want this change because they think it'll make it harder on the murderboners, and there they'd be extremely wrong.

Murderboners have the entire station at their fingertips, there's literally infinite ways to kill someone, and for a half-decent murderboner killing someone in a few seconds is easy. In that infinite amount of ways to kill people, murders that occur where the murderboner drags someone away from a bunch of pursuers, the extremely specific scenario that Cedarbridge is complaining about, is beyond rare for antags to perform.

Lets say he somehow magically got his way and you moved half as fast if you were dragging something/someone. Would the murderboner in the extremely rare circumstance that Cedarbridge is complaining about continue killing people in that way? No, they would just kill the person straight out. Congratulations, you failed to stop the murderboner from murderboning and only succeeded in making an extremely rare tactic obsolete.

Taking note of a cedars position as a admin for relevant conflict of interest rather than moderating murderboners, by sniping their tactics rather than punishing murderboners outright its not changing anything at as shadow correctly points out radically changing the system. Conversely its very easy to beat murderboners by dragging, as usually its a tactic deployed to disarm them, if you moved only 1 tile a second and your stun was 2 seconds it inversely buffs the traitor in being in range of their disarmed weapon. Alternatively its a tactic for also taking station crew away from their dangerous equipment like lasers etc, while you have the advantage of being able to strike & move at the same time.

- Bartender shoots the double esworder in the face with no reflection reserved for laser weaponry, pull into bar backroom & beats them to death because beanbag shotgun slugs stun when they land a positive hit on the head or two on the chest (thereabouts)

I have a gut feeling this is a thinly veiled ("I ded pls nerf") argument, but that's just a personal sentiment.

[MisterPerson]

stop responding to shadow dimention posts, none of the maintainers take him seriously so you don't need to argue with him.

That being said, could drag speed be made into a Var or something? it would be interesting to temporarily playtest slower dragging for a few days, just to see what happens.

Doing a testmerge of a slowdown is very easy, assuming people actually want to try it out.

[Swagbringer]

I think testing it out would be a great idea.

[Dr_bee]

What if pulling people who are standing didnt give the slowdown, it would solve some of the security issues. Perps could rest to give the slowdown, but you could just treat them as being non-cooperative if they do.

[Qbopper]

I wish people noticed my idea of requiring two free hands.

Acknowledge meee!

this could be an interesting compromise

make drags require committing to the situation even if you don't have a slowdown - you can't fight back and drag someone effectively, that could be neat

[Kyrah Abattoir]

Slower dragging is a good idea. Hell i'm still against hands free dragging in general for what it is worth.

[WarbossLincoln]

Slowdown while dragging would hurt both sides of conversion modes equally and I think it could be a nice change. Last rev round I played there was a fight between 3 or 4 revs and 2 or 3 officers, myself as an officer. In the chaos a rev slipped me, got my baton, and then ran off at mach speeds killing me with 0 chance of being saved or anything. It's not the death part that sucks, it's when you have buddies fighting with you but there's no chance they can save you. Same issue on the other side like someone mentioned. Known rev head gets tased in a fight and an officer runs off with him at 45 mph because the regular revs don't matter. They can chase after the officer but they aren't going to stop him from beating the rev to death.

Picture this in your mind. An officer with a riot shield in one hand, a baton in another hand, and dragging a rev head by the ankle with a third hand running backwards at 45 mph, deflecting thrown stuff with his shield while beating the head to death with his baton.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Slower dragging is a good idea. Hell i'm still against hands free dragging in general for what it is worth.

You've never played Bay have you? Dragging people slowly across the floor substantially making their injuries worse and finally realising what a worthless bag of flesh they really were. Most of our community would probably die of natural causes or deathgasp out of impatience, which is the sad truth.

[cedarbridge]

Slower dragging is a good idea. Hell i'm still against hands free dragging in general for what it is worth.

You've never played Bay have you? Dragging people slowly across the floor substantially making their injuries worse and finally realising what a worthless bag of flesh they really were. Most of our community would probably die of natural causes or deathgasp out of impatience, which is the sad truth.

There's a reason other servers refer to us as an rdm battle arena server.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Maybe.

We're essentially light on RP and expectations, if the basis of the arguement is to shake off attackers then there's other ways to tack that problem without inconveniencing ourselves like this. Making attacking people while moving severely wobble off their aim by a margin with lots of "attempted to X" chatlog would be a alternative since moving 1 tile at a time slowly would do the same in pacing people trying to murder-drag so they can be caught but also change our entire game structure.

This is having your cake but shaving off the cream to make it tidier, it doesn't save any calories off a core problem rooted in its one dimensional combat which relies on a lot of clicking & opportunistically clicking a sequence faster than your opponent (tabling for instance, using Ctrl pull & grab intent) as well as just applying more force to solve a problem. Its the most basic combat system outside of our coded abilities out there.

[ShadowDimentio]

There's a reason other servers refer to us as an rdm battle arena server.

It's because we don't pad the corners and ban antags that kill people.

[WarbossLincoln]

Perhaps have damage/disarm have a chance to make you drop whatever you're dragging.

[ShadowDimentio]

It already does.

[Wulfe_L]

So I attempted to combine several of the ideas proposed so far. Does this make any sense or am I a fool?

Dragger's hands are not free: Walk speed

Dragger's hands are free: Halfway between Walk and Run speeds

Dragee is cuffed, dragger's hands are not free: Halfway between Walk and Run speeds

Dragee is cuffed, dragger's hands are free: Run speed

Dragee is prone: Speed goes down a level

Dragee attempts to pull free: Speed goes down a level for a moment each time

[ShadowDimentio]

The worst idea is back from the grave.

[D&B]

Let it die

[lumipharon]

I've generally been opposed to this in the past, but the more I thin about it, the more curious I am just to see it tested, to see how it pans out.

As I play sec a lot the whole 'arresting is harder' thin is pretty significant, but for just regular arrests, assuming you can pull at normal speed if they're standing, it should typically fine. If they're being a cunt and resting repeatedly (you can shake them up), that's literally just resisting arrest, and you can cheerfully punish them for that.

Forcing people to stand and fight seems somewhat interesting, interesting enough for me be happy to see it tested at least.

[iamgoofball]

As an HoS during rev it is safer to just issue a kill warning and enforce it. Ends rounds quicker too.

[onleavedontatme]

As an HoS during rev it is safer to just issue a kill warning and enforce it. Ends rounds quicker too.

Yeah but you gotta drag the bodies away so they don't get defibbed or cloned

Perhaps have damage/disarm have a chance to make you drop whatever you're dragging.

This might be interesting to try. The damage thing that is, disarm already happens I think.

[DrPillzRedux]

I have an idea.

Make cuffs the same as rollerbeds. Full speed dragging because you're pulling by the cuffs and not one arm with the rest of the body loose.

A reason to cuff corpses now for sec.

[cedarbridge]

I have an idea.

Make cuffs the same as rollerbeds. Full speed dragging because you're pulling by the cuffs and not one arm with the rest of the body loose.

A reason to cuff corpses now for sec.

Didn't we discuss this one earlier though? It doesn't solve the "greyshirts stealing their buddies from sec" thing and it doesn't really solve the solo murder issue much either unless we're going to snowflake out cablecuffs.

[XDTM]

To be fair the guy in cuffs can run just fine, so there's no reason he can't be dragged off by his friend.

As for the idea as a whole i'm for the slow if target is prone and no slow if target is standing, with bodybags/lockers giving full speed. Pretty much takes away drag-n-hit murderbone, while it still allows dragging wounded people/arrested people, and peopletrains can run at full steam. Plus it incentivizes the use of bodybags, which may make for a cleaner station, which would reduce overall chaos as it's well known that if there's enough blood in a hallway people start thinking "oh the station's in shambles now, no more rules, call the shuttle".

[iamgoofball]

Yeah but you gotta drag the bodies away so they don't get defibbed or cloned

thats why you warpath down to medical and R&D and smash the cloner + the circuit printer

[Dr_bee]

Can we talk about this again? It is utter bullshit that one person can run as fast dragging a fully grown person as someone unincumbered. It shouldnt be a thing, it makes removing individual people significantly easier and there is literally nothing you can do to save them if they drag them and yakkety sax away.

The fact this is being kept as a thing is even considered is frankly stupid. it wont slow down gameplay, it will make stupid solo lowpop murderbone harder to do and will make open combat not an attractive first choice because you cant literally run away with your bleeding target into maint where no one can follow you.

The sec balance issues shouldnt be considered either. it is unfair to both parties that one person can drag someone away at full speed.