Implant the HoP and disable antag?

[callanrockslol]

Arguably the three most powerful jobs for an antag have already had this done to them.

This is good because we don't have to worry about every single briging for minor things leading to spacing and the AI flooding plasma every single round because the captain decided to subvert the AI so he could steal his own pants in piece.

Then we have an all access assistant that starts off fairly well armed and can easily arm himself with the infinite loot that is cargopinata.

If we are going to have captain protected we really need the HoP too, starting with all access and a gun is way more than any other job and can be utterly devestating if they pull shit captain antags used to do, like subvert the AI, flood plasma, smash the bridge and murder everyone because nobody can catch them after they spaced all the suits.

[imblyings]

Anecdotally speaking, HoP antags aren't an insta-win thing for some reason. You'd think they would be and they do start with a hell of a lot more things than other antags might but players keep on finding ways to fail as a HoP antag regardless.

[Incomptinence]

Yeah similar things could happen with captain and sec antag. The bigger they are the harder they can fall, having a lot of neat gear and access doesn't make you invulnerable and you still have one body to do one thing at a time with like anyone else.

The worst murderboners originate more from a way to mitigate or bypass combat see mass slipping with no slips prior to spray nerf and old guns free hulk or even further back the cloak, not really access to weapons alone. The nastiest thing hop can get with his job is probably an ablative vest or a space suit, don't get me wrong in some revisions the vest was disgusting.

[Steelpoint]

If anything being in a higher position of power as a antag (job wise) might make said antag slightly more overzealous or less guarded. So they may be more prone to making mistakes.

Also it can be easier for security to zero in on a antag who makes usage of their job equipment. For example someone running around with a all access ID card really narrows down the list of plausible suspects from the entire crew to two people, and one of them is antag immune.

[AdenAbrafo]

There are so many reasons why this is a bad idea. There's no reason why the three most powerful people on the station should be station loyal no matter what. If you can't handle traitor HoPs subverting AIs then don't let them subvert AIs.

The only argument for this is literally 'they are too dangerous.' They aren't even that dangerous.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

It's because the HOP is universally considered shifty as fuck, unlike the captain who is generally supported by the crew unless they start being/ are called hitler

[Tunder]

Arguably the three most powerful jobs for an antag have already had this done to them.

This is good because we don't have to worry about every single briging for minor things leading to spacing and the AI flooding plasma every single round because the captain decided to subvert the AI so he could steal his own pants in piece.

Then we have an all access assistant that starts off fairly well armed and can easily arm himself with the infinite loot that is cargopinata.

If we are going to have captain protected we really need the HoP too, starting with all access and a gun is way more than any other job and can be utterly devestating if they pull shit captain antags used to do, like subvert the AI, flood plasma, smash the bridge and murder everyone because nobody can catch them after they spaced all the suits.

The only time an antag HOP becomes a problem is on low pop rounds with no Captain.

Otherwise, it still takes some skill to not get bagged, as HOPcurity and HOPs showing up where they aren't supposed to is pretty much frowned upon by everyone.

While HOP antags can be the GOAT with some luck, there isn't enough disparity between the abilities of an HOP antag and any others to justify it.

I say this having been on your side of the argument for most of my time in Spessmens, but having realized that HOP antags simply aren't that powerful, as there is usually a lot of oversight.

[Atticat]

I don't have a problem with HOP antags, but I do think their access to security lockers and EVA needs to be re-evaluated. It also kinda bites that they can so easily give themselves all access. Often as captain my HOP gives himself all access and causing a huge stir with demotion usually ends you with more problems than you started with.

[Scones]

Non-issue

Nothing wrong with HoP, it's a high-access (See: all-access) job with a starting weapon but nothing in the realm of broken like Security antag - Primarily because you do not trust them from a meta standpoint, and if they want Security gear, they have to go through the supervision of the Warden + Anyone else in the Brig. This game is balanced around having important roles filled, so saying "But what if nosec" is kind of invalid for a balance concern.

[PKPenguin321]

I'm in favor of keeping HoP antag. All-access shenanigans are pretty great and he's not really all that special, all he starts with is all access and a gun (and the all-access any traitor can get with an emag).

[lumipharon]

The only really problem with antag HoP's is handing out all access for teh lulz (or in case of cult, to ass fuck sec with 20 spies).

Of course there are plenty of shitty NON antag HoP's that do this, so eh.

[Marflow]

Ideally there'd be a system that would determine if HoP can be antag (or how much more unlikely it is) depending on skeleton/full crew and the amount of heads and if there's a captain. Alternatively or additionaly, antag heads would have one additional objective to reflect how easy it is to traitor around as any head. Personally I'd just have disabled antag for HoP simply based of facts rather than anecdote on how suspicous someone might get when HoP does something when in reality nobody gives a fuck what HoP does in it's owl suit and it shouldn't be a factor.

[Stickymayhem]

I think the system is fine as is. It gives an opportunity for clever and robust HoP antagonists to become antag Captain, which is difficult and comes with a lot of risk and ways to get caught out, but should still, I think, be vaguely possible to accomplish.

HoPs are under constant scrutiny and are always expected to be at their office. Plus being the most powerful job that can roll antag brings with it a lot of suspicion and caution too.