Doctors, Scientists, traitor effectiveness and job merging.

[CPTANT]

A long time ago the different scientist jobs of xenobiologists, scientist and toxins got merged into one job of scientist.

This has had a profound impact on the effectiveness of traitor scientists.

The effectiveness a traitor can have on a round is largely determined by his job, while this will always be the case the merging has made scientists a lot more powerful.

They now have more options to wreck the station AND just as importantly: actions can't be pinpointed to one person, as multiple persons have the same access.


current meta has a LOT of traitor impact from scientists. This kinda hides the fact that a lot of jobs have very limited ways to effect the station.


In fact this isn't limited to traitor activity, the merging has made scientists extremely powerful (also: crusher), while a lot of jobs such as cargo have been stale for years and have lost significance.


Another example are the the doctor jobs who are so segmented that it is often instantly obvious who released a virus or made a harmful grenade.


Merging the doctor jobs of chemist, viro and doctor into one doctor job would mean traitor doctors can have more impact on the round.

This would pull the traitor meta a bit away from the endless bombings, golems and mech hordes we have seen over and over again.

[Miauw]

this is a pretty interesting idea, actually.
it would probably require a remap of the medbay, though.

(or we could keep the job titles and give all of them all the medbay access)

[Falamazeer]

Nah, fuck the titles, just open extra doctor slots, Give the doctors new roundstart spawn points in those departments, and make medical doctors have standard access to viro, and chem.

It's pretty revolutionary but it would make it less immediately obvious "CLOWN HAS SPACE LUBE LYNCH CHEMIST!" "HONK HONK HONK LYNCH HONK HONK VIROLOGIST!"

[lumipharon]

Enjoy 8 people being able to go into viro at any time and unleashing space AIDS.

[PKPenguin321]

Wow, I thought this was going into the direction of "divide siencee nerf pls," but I'm pleasantly surprised with this idea. I would love to have more variety in traitor shenanigans, especially from medbay. Only problem I can think up off the top of my head is four people wanting to do viro at the same time, when only one will be able to effectively do anything.

Enjoy 8 people being able to go into viro at any time and unleashing space AIDS.

Yeah, and what if science gets merged? Enjoy 8 death mechs and bombs every round-- oh, hold on, that already happens (and you don't hear people complaining).

[lumipharon]

bombs happen all the time though, and it's awful.

Death mechs actually require research, minerals and robotics work.

Unleashing AIDS requires one guy to do some viro work, and anyone coming in and letting it out everywhere like a dong.

[Scones]

You're aware that traitor MDs are basically a top tier roll right now, right?

Ikarrus' workplace accidents change heinously imbalanced all of Medbay and I advise you take advantage of it.

[lumipharon]

You're aware that traitor MDs are basically a top tier roll right now, right?

Ikarrus' workplace accidents change heinously imbalanced all of Medbay and I advise you take advantage of it.

Thrown morphine bottles are GGnore tier bullshit.

[Scones]

You're aware that traitor MDs are basically a top tier roll right now, right?

Ikarrus' workplace accidents change heinously imbalanced all of Medbay and I advise you take advantage of it.

Thrown morphine bottles are GGnore tier bullshit.

Morphine, Phlog, throw a krok bottle for instant overdose and addiction and quick as fuck death, etc.

[MisterPerson]

I've been advocating this for probably a year now, so obviously I support this. Part of the reason it's so hard to kill people is that it's sometimes difficult to get access. Like getting into chemistry right now is very difficult. However, if you just need to get any MD ID, it becomes a lot easier to break in.

[lumipharon]

What, all you need is a wrench for the fridge, or any weapon to break a window, to get into chem.

[MisterPerson]

I meant without raising suspicion from the guy making chemicals and having sec/the AI on your ass before even getting a real chance to kill.

[Shaps-cloud]

I can't wait to have 6 people trying to cram into the tiny chemistry office to make space lube and fluorosulph acid while one person actually tries to make medicine

[newfren]

I can't wait to have 6 people trying to cram into the tiny chemistry office to make space lube and fluorosulph acid while one person actually tries to make medicine

Holy shit can you imagine the standard medical doctor player wandering into viro or chemistry while you're doing something complicated and asking "WHY DOES THIS DISEASE HAVE SNEEZING ISN'T THAT BAD?" or "WHAT'S ALL THIS UNSTABLE MUTAGEN FOR AI HELP CHEMIST IS A TRAITOR!!!"

That said it would be a quality of life improvement for medbay traitors, but they all get access to morphine bottles (and thus neurotoxin from the bar as well), toxin bottles if they want to hack the vendors, Calomel which rapidly reduces people to ~20 health, etc etc. I'm pretty mixed on the issue but I imagine the first time I try to play virology and have people wandering in every fifteen minutes I'll change my tone.

[CPTANT]

I can't wait to have 6 people trying to cram into the tiny chemistry office to make space lube and fluorosulph acid while one person actually tries to make medicine

Holy shit can you imagine the standard medical doctor player wandering into viro or chemistry while you're doing something complicated and asking "WHY DOES THIS DISEASE HAVE SNEEZING ISN'T THAT BAD?" or "WHAT'S ALL THIS UNSTABLE MUTAGEN FOR AI HELP CHEMIST IS A TRAITOR!!!"

The vast majority of times a random chemist now makes chlorine trifluoride or something equally horrible nobody even gives a shit, so I doubt this would be a problem. Also chemists already make unstable mutagen for viro's and botanists, so why would people suddenly start shouting after a merge?

[Miauw]

I meant without raising suspicion from the guy making chemicals and having sec/the AI on your ass before even getting a real chance to kill.

Yeah, chemistry is surrounded by highly public spaces on all sides, and there'll almost always be somebody inside. It's not the sort of room you can stealthily falsewall into.

[Zaffre]

I like the idea but in reality it would just be extra chemistry / virology slots and no one would actually play the role of an MD. Also what about genetics? Should the cloning access part of it be merged in med and the other into science?

Also from an RP perspective, it wouldn't make sense. An MD wouldn't make medicines or research viruses. The scientist merge did make sense because you would still be a scientist doing those jobs (xeno, toxins, etc).

[Stan_Studnick]

Yeah, no, keep the separate. All this is going to do is make medbay useless because it'll just be chaos, I actually like having to figure out a way to nab chemist access or virology access so I can get in there. Making it so any medical doctor has that level of access is just going to fuck everything up, it's perfectly fine as it is right now.

Medbay's chaotic enough because it's more or less a public part of the station, people show up and linger in medbay because they can. Medical doctors are there to be a buffer between genetics, virology, and chemistry and the rest of the station. They're likely to catch you and call for help, so the current divisions are fucking perfect and medbay runs exactly as it should Likely what would happen is they'd be more proactive with your break-in and chloral you and then surgically implant a bunch of faggots inside your body before dumping you in the hall naked and "full of faggotry."

[invisty]

I agree with the problem, but not the solution.

To be fair, I would be keen to see the proposed change trialled.

[Shadowlight213]

Maybe merge chemist and MD. Please leave viro seperate. Viro is a solo job. There's no possibility for cooperation in it as there is one machine. People wanting to "help" with viro is going to make the whole thing a shitfest.

[Amelius]

I agree and disagree. Virology is plainly a one-man job, that should be kept seperate. Genetics isn't even part of medbay, so it should stay as it is.

That said, having random doctors butt into chemistry every 5 seconds would drive me frothing insane, I feel.

[Scones]

At this point in time Chemistry having access restricted to only four people (Chemists + CMO + Captain) is the only thing keeping it from being pants on head retarded OP. Which it kind of already is, but if every one of the MDs could come in and in <30 seconds have 3 phlog bottles, gg dude.

[CPTANT]

At this point in time Chemistry having access restricted to only four people (Chemists + CMO + Captain) is the only thing keeping it from being pants on head retarded OP. Which it kind of already is, but if every one of the MDs could come in and in <30 seconds have 3 phlog bottles, gg dude.

How many murders do you see committed with phlog?

How often do you have the feeling you get fucked over by chemistry apart from space lube?

[Ikarrus]

We already have something very similar as a server config option. At the moment, jobs have increased access (Jobs within departments share access) when the server population is low. This automatic toggle can be disabled and we can force it to be always on.

For example, scientists and robotics will share the same access. The only difference is where you spawn and what you spawn with, as well as a job title.

If you guys wanted to actually try this out we can do that easily. Just poke your head admins (or any code-savvy admin for a single round event).

[onleavedontatme]

Xenobio has been part of science since before it actually existed (when it was a pen with a placeholder metroid that couldnt do anything and a note promising updates).

[Alex Crimson]

Fuck you guys and your job merging. The main reason i hate playing Science is because of that bullshit. People just run into your workplace and start messing with your stuff, or at roundstart there are arguments as to who works where.

All jobs should be separated.