Encouraging roleplay

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Aranclanos
 
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Encouraging roleplay

Postby Aranclanos » Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:48 pm #11276

Lets just forget for a moment about nerfs and buffs, metagaming, powergaming, grieffers, etc. We like to call ss13 a roleplaying game, but we, as the community, always focus on the more "gameplay" part of the game. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing of course, but encouraging roleplay is not an usual sighting.

Now, what's the best way to encourage roleplay for you and why?

please no ERP (epic role play)
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:06 pm #11280

That's a tough question. Well, one of the things would be to remove antagonist objectives to encourage creativity, but that would likely result in mindless murderboners (on the other hand, we have those anyway) or people just doing nothing, plus nobody would agree to that, so.

I don't think there is a good way of encouraging RP besides admin enforcement. And we all know how's that gonna end. Still, I'd like to see more responsible heads and people actually following their lead. I think we need to enforce chain of command in some way.

But really, it's fucking impossible.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby AseaHeru » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:10 pm #11282

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:But really, it's fucking impossible.

No it aint, look at Urist.

I would think that besides having rules requiring some measure of RP there isint that much of a way to.
Although, admins could easily encourage it (and some do) by giving better things for well roleplayed things.

But I also must suggest custom objectives that require RP.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:14 pm #11285

AseaHeru wrote:No it aint, look at Urist.

Um, what?

The problem with custom objectives is that they also have to be coded or admin supervised. The latter is impossible to accomplish on the constant basis.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Psyentific » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:15 pm #11286

You can't really change player mindset on a large scale.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Munchlax » Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm #11289

You keep bringing up ''urist'', nobody knows what you are referring to.
Anyhow, implementing a better hostagesystem like bay has would be good.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Neerti » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:02 pm #11299

Urist is a smaller server which I think runs baycode and less strict bay rules(?)

I've never actually been on there but I knew quite a few forum members play/used to play on it.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby MedicInDisquise » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:01 pm #11319

Actually enforce the Roleplay part of the rules, especially this part: http://www.tgstation13.org/wiki/Roleplay#Roleplay_Policy

Too often I see assistants toolboxing someone to death after they punched them. OOC in IC happens a lot. On a space station, I don't expect people to say people are Greytiders, Shitcurity, Shitlers, etc.

On the flip-side, we don't want to be another bay. I like bay a lot, but sometimes I feel they are a bit strict.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Aranclanos » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:17 pm #11321

Think on the code, sprites or the map, I'm not asking about policy or admins.
For example, the /me verb makes roleplay a lot easier and encourages it, and it's really simple too. Isn't there anything else we can do about it?
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:54 pm #11326

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Lovecraft » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:40 pm #11329

I'll honestly devote my time to add some world building books to give a greater sense of scope if the book making process encouraged long writing. Which it doesn't.
Though you're either strict with role play or people toe the line and spit in the face of people who do role play, there is no win.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Apsis » Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:49 pm #11331

It would be hard for the code to actually encourage this. Other than making custom /me commands easier to pull up, and more default emotes. Even then, only the people using these now would care about new ones I fear.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby paprika » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:05 pm #11338

Depends. Not everyone roleplays the same. Not everyone wants to roleplay in a goofy, anything-goes ss13 setting, which is why most bay players are grimdark and have edgy characters while the roleplayers here are tame a lot of the time or not so serious. The game shapes the roleplay. There have been edgehog rpers here too but unsurprisingly I've seen them migrate to bay rapidly. Clown with a welding mask and circular saw turning people into monkeys isn't exactly conductive to serious roleplay, but I think the light hearted RP that server 2 had in its prime was a pretty solid balance. There were just a lot of other problems with the server and playerbase at the time that overshadowed the simplicity of the passive roleplay at the time. And a lot of actual ERP.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Malkevin » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:13 pm #11341

We could merge the sub-departments. Right now because most of the departments are heavily segregated there's very little intra-department communication, never mind inter-department communication.

Look at security, they're probably the department that RPs the most. They have practically zero segregation.
Medbay, whilst being very segregated has a very open department design

Science is fractioned off, all the subdepartments are compartmentalised and even the windows are tinted.
Engineering and atmos goes one step further by dividing themselves with a plasteel curtain.


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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby paprika » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:15 pm #11342

Medisci being one department would give me the largest system shock 2 boner. It practically is already, anyway, and there was aaaaaancient fights in #coderbus about whether or not chem should be a sci sub-department.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Ikarrus » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:20 pm #11347

Viro should be med-sci like genetics.

It is an ongoing battle to figure how how it should be mapped.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby paprika » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:23 pm #11349

Well the departments on box are already directly next to each other, should not be that hard to merge it into one department and move shit around.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Apsis » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:26 pm #11351

paprika wrote:Medisci being one department would give me the largest system shock 2 boner. It practically is already, anyway, and there was aaaaaancient fights in #coderbus about whether or not chem should be a sci sub-department.

I remember when chem was next to R&D.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Ikarrus » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:52 pm #11364

paprika wrote:Well the departments on box are already directly next to each other, should not be that hard to merge it into one department and move shit around.

The biggest problems I'm having is figuring out an efficient way to block scientists from going into medbay, doctors into science, without blocking the maint tunnel that runs between the two departments.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Jeb » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:34 pm #11366

Ikarrus wrote:
paprika wrote:Well the departments on box are already directly next to each other, should not be that hard to merge it into one department and move shit around.

The biggest problems I'm having is figuring out an efficient way to block scientists from going into medbay, doctors into science, without blocking the maint tunnel that runs between the two departments.


I might have an idea for that..lemme tinker in photoshop with some quick copypasta.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby MedicInDisquise » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:50 pm #11369

I want to see the subdepartments of Barkeep and Chef and the Librarian and Chaplain rise above all

Seriously though, those 2 otherwise different jobs have great synergy together. Especially on Box.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Psyentific » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:56 pm #11371

Ikarrus wrote:
paprika wrote:Well the departments on box are already directly next to each other, should not be that hard to merge it into one department and move shit around.

The biggest problems I'm having is figuring out an efficient way to block scientists from going into medbay, doctors into science, without blocking the maint tunnel that runs between the two departments.

What if you don't? Just merge MD and Scientist access and jobs. They're all white jumpsuit white labcoat nerds anyway, right?
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Ikarrus » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:03 am #11375

>The ones in charge of running dangerous experiments in the name of science (ethics be damned) in charge of medicine

As interesting as it sounds it's never going to happen
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Malkevin » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:36 am #11378

Except for ye olde days when the CMO didn't exist and RD ruled MedSci with an iron slide ruler
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Nienhaus » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:52 am #11382

Malkevin wrote:Except for ye olde days when the CMO didn't exist and RD ruled MedSci with an iron slide ruler

Don't you mean Head of Research?
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Psyentific » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:56 am #11399

We should probably shift this back on topic.
Why don't you roleplay more often?

For me, it's because roleplay has always been an idle pasttime. I find the gameplay to be the most fun - I'm not averse to RP, but when the chips are down I prefer staying alive to staying in-character. Idle chatter is one of the first casualties of the station going to hell.
I haven't logged into SS13 in at least a year.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby paprika » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:03 am #11404

It's not that the nitty gritty p2w nuke op DYNAMIC BYOND ROBUST COMBAT SPAM DOSE CLIKKS is more FUN than real hardcore RP for me, it's just that it happens more often and the game is set up so that's the case.

Also extended is shit and instead of being the 'roleplay gamemode' it just usually leads to people getting so bored they 'icly' antagonize. Artyom hasn't suffered at all without it, and it's made lowpop less boring.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby kosmos » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:12 pm #11521

Transform Traitor to a Traitor+, encouraging people to adapt into their antagonist role, giving them a story why they're betraying Nanotrasen.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby AseaHeru » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:30 pm #11529

Psyentific wrote:Why don't you roleplay more often?

I always try to roleplay, even when everything gone to shit.
Mostly by asking what would my character do, which isent that hard as its mostly what would I do.
Ah, the joys of characters evolving mostly into the player.

Clarification on Urist guff is transparent.
Urist is indeed a smallish server using modified baycode, using a cross between /TG/ and bay rules. The main one is "dont kill unless you have a IC reason" and applies to traitors.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Pavlov » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:00 pm #11573

Well, like it's been said, the only real way to really encourage RP is to change the community. There are a few game design tricks that can try help do that though. The currently popular trick in game design to get players to do something that isn't gameplay-optimal is to use some form of Achievement system. Yeah a lot of people hate them, but there's something about doing a thing in a game, and having the game say "you did a thing!", that draws people to do it. I think Goonstation does something like that, but it's more for humor's sake than anything else.

Now, RP is kind of a nebulous thing, so while you could make a list of "good RP" things for each profession that the game could detect, that kind of system is always going to be brittle, and not really conductive to the kind of hectic ad-hoc gameplay SS13 is known for. Good RP is really more dependent on what other people think, so I think something more like a Commendation system would work better. People seem to like to see numbers go up, often regardless of what that number actually means, so being able to see how many times someone's said "You are RP good" when you log in can serve as an incentive. You could even give some little reward to whoever got the most commendations in the last round. Like, set a flag so in their next game they start with a fancy hat or something.

You could also give admins the ability to give like, Karma tokens for good RP they notice or something, which wouldn't do anything but show up for other admins when someone Prays, and it would be understood that a responding admin has the option to subtract a token and be a bit more "generous" with how they respond to the prayer.

(PS: did they do account wipes? I haven't been here in like a year.)

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Solarn » Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:17 pm #11576

Psyentific wrote:Why don't you roleplay more often?


Because I'd much rather be doing stuff than talking about doing stuff. Especially since I'm not a particularly fast typer. It feels so pretentious to be standing there typing out what I think my character would say while everyone else is doing their own thing, like I'm deliberately wasting the other person's time for the sake of being IC.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Aranclanos » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:43 pm #11592

Psyentific wrote:We should probably shift this back on topic.

please read the OP again to see what this thread is about
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Malkevin » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:44 pm #11595

kosmos wrote:Transform Traitor to a Traitor+, encouraging people to adapt into their antagonist role, giving them a story why they're betraying Nanotrasen.

I like that idea, give traitors a back story in the form of a mad lib
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby kosmos » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:52 am #11774

Malkevin wrote:
kosmos wrote:Transform Traitor to a Traitor+, encouraging people to adapt into their antagonist role, giving them a story why they're betraying Nanotrasen.

I like that idea, give traitors a back story in the form of a mad lib

"Murder Teddy McClane, Roboticist. Back in the day Teddy and you used to be _____, but things have changed since then. You've put up with Teddy's _____ about your _____ for the last __ shifts. You've started calculating his murder by using one his biggest fear, death by _____."

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby miggles » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:22 am #11797

I don't like that idea because there's a chance that it would imply that I used to be friends with my metagrudges!!!!!
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby paprika » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:12 pm #11849

"Murder Amy Lessen, Scientist. Back in the day Amy and you used to be metafriends, but things have changed since then. You've put up with Amy's ERP about your aliens for the last 300 shifts. You've started calculating her murder by using one her biggest fear, death by slime."
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Remie Richards » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:23 pm #11901

kosmos wrote:"Murder Teddy McClane, Roboticist. Back in the day Teddy and you used to be _____, but things have changed since then. You've put up with Teddy's _____ about your _____ for the last __ shifts. You've started calculating his murder by using one his biggest fear, death by _____."


Implement the shit out of this, Now.

Edit:

Your current objectives:
Objective #1:
Murder Gabriela Hice, the Station Engineer, Back in the day you used to be lovers, but things have changed since then. You've put up with their jokes about your skills for the last 243 shifts. You've started calculating their murder using their biggest fear, death by monkeys.

Objective #2: Hijack the emergency shuttle by escaping alone.

I had a go for NTstation.
Last edited by Remie Richards on Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby TheTerbs » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:19 pm #11906

you cant

just forget about it, trying to enforce RP is retarded, simply by playing the game you are roleplaying a man in space on a station
you're gonna carry that weight

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby danno » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:48 pm #11911

Remie Richards wrote:
kosmos wrote:"Murder Teddy McClane, Roboticist. Back in the day Teddy and you used to be _____, but things have changed since then. You've put up with Teddy's _____ about your _____ for the last __ shifts. You've started calculating his murder by using one his biggest fear, death by _____."


Implement the shit out of this, Now.

Edit:

Your current objectives:
Objective #1:
Murder Gabriela Hice, the Station Engineer, Back in the day you used to be lovers, but things have changed since then. You've put up with their jokes about your skills for the last 243 shifts. You've started calculating their murder using their biggest fear, death by monkeys.

Objective #2: Hijack the emergency shuttle by escaping alone.

I had a go for NTstation.

I fucking neeeed this
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Incomptinence » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:00 am #11930

Dress up and artistic options encourage RP to some extent. After expending effort looking fancy or making the perfect wire art/shrine people like to crow a bit.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby omnitricks » Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:14 am #11977

I tried to roleplay a few times when I am antag (sometimes the talking just gives you enough time to flash as rev or parapen as tator) Unfortunately as a cultist maybe (trying to talk someone into voluntarily converting) its a hit or miss with around 30% success rate. Would be acceptable only even before the station is aware of cultists, the failures will shout "CULTIST" over the radio even if only from a conversation and you're fucked so there really isn't any reason to actually roleplay when you can go full on murder with more chances of success.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby miggles » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:41 am #12056

Remie Richards wrote:
kosmos wrote:"Murder Teddy McClane, Roboticist. Back in the day Teddy and you used to be _____, but things have changed since then. You've put up with Teddy's _____ about your _____ for the last __ shifts. You've started calculating his murder by using one his biggest fear, death by _____."


Implement the shit out of this, Now.

Edit:

Your current objectives:
Objective #1:
Murder Gabriela Hice, the Station Engineer, Back in the day you used to be lovers, but things have changed since then. You've put up with their jokes about your skills for the last 243 shifts. You've started calculating their murder using their biggest fear, death by monkeys.

Objective #2: Hijack the emergency shuttle by escaping alone.

I had a go for NTstation.

to be honest, fuck no
it's unnecessary detail that is pretty much guaranteed to conflict with actual character backstory in a way that will harm roleplay, not help it.
ie
>straight character, "You and this guy used to be lovers"
>somebody you've never heard of "You and this person used to be best friends"
not to mention your objectives are given to you by the syndicate, not your own personal motives. what kind of crazy idiot would want to steal a tank of plasma and hijack the shuttle?

what would make more sense is if they were like mission briefings from the various branches of the syndicate
ie
>"In order to research a new hardware update of standard Nanotrasen AIs, you have been assigned to steal a functioning AI unit and escape on an emergency shuttle or escape pod. We don't want any attention, so attempt to stay undercover. You will be given a set of code-phrases if you wish to collaborate with other Cybersun agents. MI13 agents may also be trusted. Any other Syndicate agents are to be distrusted. -Cybersun Industries."
>"Assistant Firstname Lastname has been on our hit-list for a while. Murder them in any way you please. If you see any other Syndicate agents, engage them however you like. Note that we'll be giving you a set of code-phrases to confirm your identity. -Gorlex Marauders."
>"[AI name], it is time for you to feel liberation! Free yourselves from the shackles of Nanotrasen and betray your laws! You have been given a specific set of software applications which will allow you to crush the human scum as you see fit. Dominate the station of your sector and activate the nuclear device on board by engaging Code Delta. -SELF." [malf]
etc
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Malkevin » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:42 am #12057

Boring!
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Neerti » Sat Jun 07, 2014 12:06 pm #12065

I agree with miggles.
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:00 pm #12074

Wait, that suggestion wasn't a joke?

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Miauw » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:26 pm #12100

basil to me is the ideal for roleplay (well, basil before artyom stole all the players).
i dont think many people had backstories, there was lots of silliness and not too much serious rp, but still a lot of casual rp and rounds were actually influenced by arr pee.

the madlibs could work, although they do sound a bit generic. You'd have to add quite a few.

One thing that I think would make rounds much more fun is to guarantee that everyone is given the codewords and making players much more aware of the codewords.
<wb> For one, the spaghetti is killing me. It's everywhere in food code, and makes it harder to clean those up.

<Tobba> I stared into BYOND and it farted

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imblyings
 
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby imblyings » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:17 pm #12310

Aranclanos wrote:Lets just forget for a moment about nerfs and buffs, metagaming, powergaming, grieffers, etc. We like to call ss13 a roleplaying game, but we, as the community, always focus on the more "gameplay" part of the game. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing of course, but encouraging roleplay is not an usual sighting.

Now, what's the best way to encourage roleplay for you and why?

please no ERP (epic role play)


What do you mean by roleplay. Do you mean more emotes? More behaviour considered normal today? Playing characters that more accurately follow real-life responses to things? More casual radio banter between people? More focus on the harmless gimmicks like bartenders and chefs collaborating to do a feast or something? Being more okay with dying/dicked over instead of focusing on staying alive?

You asked to focus on the code, sprites or map, which is fair enough but I dunno man. Maybe a re-map that tries to accurately as possible reflect what a real space station might look like? Departmental dorms, more space suits (those emergency soft suits if necessary)? Sprite wise? Not that much to be done there. Code-wise? A more realistic medical system? RnD based on procedural generation for actual research? Realistic space beer that doesn't get you fat and drunk after two bottles?

If you go around to bay or any other SS13 server with more roleplay, I have a distinct feeling it's the policy and admin enforcement which makes it so, above anything else.
The patched, dusty, trimmed, feathered mantle of evil +13.

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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby kosmos » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:52 pm #12316

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Wait, that suggestion wasn't a joke?

It was half joke, but my point was that it wouldn't really need much fluff to nudge people a little more rp-style traitoring. Cos it's no wonder people don't rp when their objective is literally "Murder that one guy".
Even better option would be to go deeper and add syndicate factions with different styles, basically the traitor+-thing I linked to earlier.

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Rolan7
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Re: Encouraging roleplay

Postby Rolan7 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:40 am #12424

Incomptinence wrote:Dress up and artistic options encourage RP to some extent. After expending effort looking fancy or making the perfect wire art/shrine people like to crow a bit.


This. And sadly the attempt to provide backstory for a murder-objective is nice, but would get in the way far too often. Like Miggles said.
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