Ways to limit infinite resources without making it obnoxious

[onleavedontatme]

I am thinking about

-Sleepers

-Medibots

-Cryo

All three of these more or less produce infinite healing. You just chuck a patient in the machine or let the robot sit in the lobby.

So how to make these still useful/not a complete pain to use without being unlimited health based on 0 resources?

Or is this all misguided?

[MMMiracles]

Make sleepers use the same recharge method as Chem dispensers, but at a slower recharge rate.

Nerf the medibot's healing Chem but make it have something similar to the medbay mech where it can slowly regen custom chemicals from the internal beaker to encourage creative heal mixes from chemists.

Maybe increase cryo's consumption rate for its internal beaker so the 2 spare beakers don't keep lasting for multiple rounds?

[Luke Cox]

Make sleepers use the same recharge method as Chem dispensers, but at a slower recharge rate.

Nerf the medibot's healing Chem but make it have something similar to the medbay mech where it can slowly regen custom chemicals from the internal beaker to encourage creative heal mixes from chemists.

Maybe increase cryo's consumption rate for its internal beaker so the 2 spare beakers don't keep lasting for multiple rounds?

I was about to type this but you beat me to it. This is the correct answer.

[Cik]

make everything in the OP require tons of broadcast juice from APCs, make juice actually finite ez

[Zilenan91]

I think medibots are in a good place to be honest.

[ShadowDimentio]

Why is this necessary

[PKPenguin321]

Why is this necessary

something something hug box something something coders like nerfing things

[ShadowDimentio]

Like if you have a good idea for an alternative I'm all ears, but all I'm hearing so far is removing/nerfing things just because.

[FantasticFwoosh]

I am thinking about

-Sleepers

-Medibots

-Cryo

All three of these more or less produce infinite healing. You just chuck a patient in the machine or let the robot sit in the lobby.

So how to make these still useful/not a complete pain to use without being unlimited health based on 0 resources?

Or is this all misguided?

> Give them all capacitor components and fluctuating equivilent costs. Keep it infinite but have it on a charge. Med bots must recharge between uses but have better/unique/faster acting chems as a rebalance.

Cryo isn't infinite, it has to be stocked the issue with cryo is within the chemical components (all cryo is, is just a big health sensor freeze tube that puts people to sleep)

> tech progress pays for itself.

[Super Aggro Crag]

cryo doesn't even work anymore.

[Zilenan91]

It really doesn't. It puts you to sleep for a long time and heals at a snails pace.

[Super Aggro Crag]

if you don't succumb to your wounds before it even starts doing anything. i've been having more success as a medical doctor by pumping them full of cryox and epinephrine and shoving them in a cold shower.

[Malkevin]

medibot's healing chem is still shitty ineffective Saline-Glucose isn't it?

[onleavedontatme]

medibot's healing chem is still shitty ineffective Saline-Glucose isn't it?

var/treatment_brute = "bicaridine"
var/treatment_oxy = "dexalin"
var/treatment_fire = "kelotane"
var/treatment_tox = "antitoxin"
var/treatment_virus = "spaceacillin"

They have really good chems for basically anything except clone/brain damage

Why is this necessary

-Renders an entire department/entire set of players more or less redundant once robotics sticks an arm on an empty medkit and leaves it in the lobby

-Managing resources leads to interesting choices/stress ("we're almost out of meds, we just used the last of the bicardine on the clown, we can't save the captain"

-Having infinite of everything from roundstart results in easy survival/every player standing around bored out of their skulls waiting for an antag to kill them, or an excuse to kill the antag

[Saegrimr]

Maybe make medbots not heal anybody above under 75% health. Kinda dumb one can bring you back from crit, but as a little box sitting in the lobby for the I SLIPPED ON SOME LUBE GIMME 30 BRUTE PATCHES FOR MY SCRAPED KNEE that runs by.

[Cheimon]

Cryo currently starts with 2 full beakers for each tube. Make it only 1 full beaker for each, and chemistry will need to replace the fluid again (30 units doesn't normally cover a whole round, 60 units often will).

Give sleepers an internal synthesiser that uses plenty of power and which ticks things up at a steady rate to a maximum storage capacity of, let's say, 100 of each chem. Let them be turned on and off manually if you don't want the power draining. If you really want to splash out, sprite LEDs for when the sleeper is full up (green?), synthesising (red?), and off (blank?).

Make medibots recharge chemicals from these sleepers, maybe. They can have, I guess, 50 of each chem? To start not totally obnoxiously, they could start half full (25 of each). Either you have to plug them in (a lot like portable scrubbers and pumps), or maybe they even path and move to the sleepers on their own when they run out of a particular chemical and hook themselves up.

[Davidchan]

I can kinda see where Kor is coming from, in that Medical's job can (mostly) be done by machines once/if Science does their job.

But I can't help but feel you are trying to treat a symptom, not the cause.

Electricity is the Infinite resource here, and everything that uses electricity thus becomes infinite use. Last I checked 900kW active charge is enough to keep the station fully stocked on power and then some. Rework the engines to require more babysitting from engineering, and make their stable states less powerful. That alone would make power a valued commodity and not something taken for granted. Nerfing Medical isn't going to do much but make them feel even more worthless if a knowledgeable chemist isn't on hand, since their job goes down one of a few trees. 1) Stick person Sleeper, apply chems till healed. 2) Stick person in cryo, allow time to heal. 3) Apply patches/pills until person is healed. 4) Repair internal damage with Surgery. 5) Kill them and clone them, to bypass most healing needs.

Medicine patches are just as much an infinite resource as Sleepers and Medibots, they just have a slow down in the form of a recharging capacitor/power cell inside of them, getting science to just make porta-chems for more energy would become the new meta if medi-bots and sleepers were nerfed to be as ineffective as cryo is right now.

Surgery is the most interesting part of Medical, imo, and it's something people have gone through great lengths to avoid because it's time consuming. The only time medical treatment is exciting is if the person is in crit/dying and the doctor manages to bring them back around, aside from that it's just wait patiently for Doctor to get the magic patch or put you in the machine and push the magic buttons. Or bribe the shit out of a Miner to get stablized hivecores and just ignore medical all together.

Nerfing for the sake of nerfing is just going to piss a lot of people off. If you want to make medical not push buttons all day and actually treat people, put a new system in place for healing.

[Saegrimr]

Rework the engines to require more babysitting from engineering, and make their stable states less powerful.

I'd been thinking the same but in a different direction. Machines need to draw significantly more power.

Sabotaging the engine is only really done for the destruction the engine causes. Snipping the wires to cause a blackout can take an hour for most departments. The bridge and central primary going offline first after ~20 minutes because the huge amount of lights and computer terminals on a single APC. Its pointless.

[Zilenan91]

Why not just make it so only medical can build medibots? Give them a special machine somewhere that they can shove empty medkits into and after a little while a medibot gets pooped out that can only heal the damage of the kit used to make it, so tox kit only heals tox, burn kit only heals burn, brute only heals brute, regular medkit injects doctor's delight, that sort of thing.

[Saegrimr]

You do mean under, right? Or am I reading this wrong?

Oh shit, you're right. I meant under.

[Zilenan91]

From what I've seen, one medibot sting can heal you to full assuming you're not in critical. That'd be a fair tradeoff but I don't think medibots need the nerf personally.

[Davidchan]

From what I've seen, one medibot sting can heal you to full assuming you're not in critical. That'd be a fair tradeoff but I don't think medibots need the nerf personally.

Medibots do 15u injections by default, so assuming the stats weren't changed, baychem heals were at the following rates (Per 5 units):
Bicard heals 26 brute
Dylovene heals 26 toxic
Keloton heals 26 burn
Dermaline heals 39 burn
Tricordrazine heals 23 all
Doctor's Delight heals 46 all

So, a single prick from a medibot would heal 78 brute, burn, toxin or suffocation. Not certain of the tick rate but I think all of the old baychem was at 2 per tick so it takes ~8 seconds to do a full heal. Bumping Medibots down to Saline would be mostly fine, or just retooling their chems to heal 2-5 per u.

[Zilenan91]

Saline is a beyond terrible heal, all it does is like a 33% chance of .5 heal from what I remember

[confused rock]

Saline is a beyond terrible heal, all it does is like a 33% chance of .5 heal from what I remember

saline does have one use though, you cant OD so you can pump yourself with infinity units

[newfren]

Saline is a beyond terrible heal, all it does is like a 33% chance of .5 heal from what I remember

saline does have one use though, you cant OD so you can pump yourself with infinity units

Synthflesh, Styptic Powder, and Silver Sulfadiazine also have no OD threshold and heal better.

[WarbossLincoln]

Another thing that invalidates doctors is how easy it is for chemists to make a shitload of slap patches and pack the fridge with them. You basically don't need doctors for anything but surgery if the chemists are making patches.