Bottom post of the previous page:
absolutely no way to stun a borg that knows you're trying to get them they have electronic control which is better than all access.kevinz000 wrote:Also jmad flashbangs are rediculous op get good lmao.
Bottom post of the previous page:
absolutely no way to stun a borg that knows you're trying to get them they have electronic control which is better than all access.kevinz000 wrote:Also jmad flashbangs are rediculous op get good lmao.
I mean its a bit of a tiptoe edge case on whether you should kill a borg being ridden by someone because at any time the rider could try to overpower you with the help of the borg and enter a KOS area like armory. I anecdotally could have ran back to my locker and shot both of them to death but i hesitated and decided to try and kill/disarm the borg (which was the real main central threat to getting inside) first and hopefully try to arrest the person riding it.D&B wrote:Blow the Borg while it's being ridden.
ftfycedarbridge wrote:they were removed because administration at the time of their removal didn't want to deal with a bunch of assholes caused a shitstorm over some shitty secborg players that should have been banned.
"Some" secborg players.Atlanta-Ned wrote:ftfycedarbridge wrote:they were removed because administration at the time of their removal didn't want to deal with a bunch of assholes caused a shitstorm over some shitty secborg players that should have been banned.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
I mean, yeah, but I've banged that drum enough.Atlanta-Ned wrote:ftfycedarbridge wrote:they were removed because administration at the time of their removal didn't want to deal with a bunch of assholes caused a shitstorm over some shitty secborg players that should have been banned.
Maybe, but at least there's a box of flashbangs on every map.PKPenguin321 wrote:is "just use flashbangs" the new "just use EMPs"?
>empscedarbridge wrote:Maybe, but at least there's a box of flashbangs on every map.PKPenguin321 wrote:is "just use flashbangs" the new "just use EMPs"?
>FlashbangsPKPenguin321 wrote:>emps
There's an ion rifle on every map guys
fuck flashbangs are the new EMPs
>stupid overpowered mechanic that nobody likes
>intentionally made kind of hard to use/acquire
>because it exists, anything that it can counter is """justified""" by it because "it has counters!!!" <-- we are here
>somebody codes a thing that makes it much more common to justify it justifying other things
>nobody is happy
sounds an awful lot like what people said about EMPs!Anonmare wrote:>FlashbangsPKPenguin321 wrote:>emps
There's an ion rifle on every map guys
fuck flashbangs are the new EMPs
>stupid overpowered mechanic that nobody likes
>intentionally made kind of hard to use/acquire
>because it exists, anything that it can counter is """justified""" by it because "it has counters!!!" <-- we are here
>somebody codes a thing that makes it much more common to justify it justifying other things
>nobody is happy
>Hard to acquire
>A literal full screen stun
>Every sec officer has one in their belt and several boxes in security
>>>>>>>Hard to use
>Cooking the grenade in your hand is now "hard to use"
Jesus Christ just stop being bad at the game
There's a world of difference between an EMP grenade requiring Iron and Uranium and a flash grenade requiring Aluminum, Potassium and Sulphur. Just sayin.PKPenguin321 wrote:watch this:
>how is it hard to acquire? just get it from sec!
people said this about the ion gun which was in the armory, flashbangs are in the sec gear room which is 1 room from the armory and will likely land you in just as much trouble
>you can make them in chemistry, you dont have to go to sec!
exactly what people said about EMPs too :V
you know im right
>Everyone should be able to have access to anti-antag gearPKPenguin321 wrote:watch this:
>how is it hard to acquire? just get it from sec!
people said this about the ion gun which was in the armory, flashbangs are in the sec gear room which is 1 room from the armory and will likely land you in just as much trouble
>you can make them in chemistry, you dont have to go to sec!
exactly what people said about EMPs too :V
you know im right
I don't care what you don't likeFantasticFwoosh wrote:That would be nice, but i wouldn't like
iamgoofball wrote:Grazyn wrote:Counter features with features. Make spears force a dismount. Traitor knight with energy sword riding on his metal steed? Make him crash into your spear wall.
A combined sound & flash effect you cannot easily make because if you mix those chemicals together in a non- nonreactionary beaker (or have to waste unit space on stablizing agent & a way to heat to force the reaction) until you get bluespace beakers cannot make a strong combined flashbang out of those basic components. Its really reliant on R&D.cedarbridge wrote:There's a world of difference between an EMP grenade requiring Iron and Uranium and a flash grenade requiring Aluminum, Potassium and Sulphur. Just sayin.
Guess what, engineer borgs have screwdrivers.J_Madison wrote:absolutely no way to stun a borg that knows you're trying to get them they have electronic control which is better than all access.kevinz000 wrote:Also jmad flashbangs are rediculous op get good lmao.
Its 3 reagents per effect, All are in any chem dispenser. Divide 3 non-reacting reagents into the two required payload beakers. Done. Chem grenades are not complicated.FantasticFwoosh wrote:A combined sound & flash effect you cannot easily make because if you mix those chemicals together in a non- nonreactionary beaker (or have to waste unit space on stablizing agent & a way to heat to force the reaction) until you get bluespace beakers cannot make a strong combined flashbang out of those basic components. Its really reliant on R&D.cedarbridge wrote:There's a world of difference between an EMP grenade requiring Iron and Uranium and a flash grenade requiring Aluminum, Potassium and Sulphur. Just sayin.
Fwoosh, do you actually do in-game chem or are you just quoting wiki pages at me? Notice I said it takes 6 reagents to make a flashbang. It does not require 6 reagents to make only a flash grenade. Additionally, you don't need a bang effect to handle a borg and occupant, which was your complaint in the first place. This does not require stabilizing because you're not attempting to stabilize the reaction. You combine them and the effect happens. No pyro grenades, no pointless stabilizing. And if you tell me that walking to a soda machine is too much work then I can't see how you rushing off to handle the borg was ever an issue in the first place. You're a bad chemist and you need to stop.FantasticFwoosh wrote:Cola for sonic blast is not in the dispenser, and both of them need stablising agent that would require a pyro grenade (tech & plasma to just print) to activate on demand to stop it blowing up in your face immediately without a workaround additional chem which is going to lower your payload. Without static special R&D beakers (because just make the flash & sonic seperately to 50/anything between 300 units and fill it full in each chamber of the large grenade for 2 beakers duhh.) you can't do it within the starting levels of tech because cryobeakers explicitly got pushed back behind more tech.
> Flash & Bang grenade cedar is what im talking about, stop shifting the subject onto a pure flash grenade because prior points on grenade disarmnent & the borg literally just running away with its unrestricted movement still apply, especially relevant to the point of discussion in that if the human riding the borg has eye protection, you've just played your trump card and they will attack you.
I mean if the effect is not strong enough (by diluting your limited amount with stabliser & pyrosium which is also SLOW HEATING) then its a waste of time & metal too.
tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
EngamerAzari's real number one fangirl <3Kor wrote:I wish Wyzack was still an admin.
That's a fair assessment.Wyzack wrote:How easy or hard it is to make flashbangs is utterly irrelevant to these balance concerns as well as the comparison to EMPs. Regardless of how easy or hard they are to obtain justifying a bunch of overpowered bullshit by the existence of a single hard counter is shitty game design and no amount of "git gud" shitposting will ever change this.
Its borg riding. Its not "a bunch of overpowered bullshit." The complaint is that borgs and their riders cannot be stopped. The counter argument is that a tool that is plentiful and easy to manufacture/order more exists and absolutely hardcounters the thing being complained about. Its not shitposting to point out that such a hard counter exists. Its also not shitposting to point out that the supposedly "overpowered" thing ceases to be overpowered in the presence of pleniful and easy to use counters. This is "borgs are OP because nobody uses flashes" argument all over again and its just lazy and dishonest.Wyzack wrote:How easy or hard it is to make flashbangs is utterly irrelevant to these balance concerns as well as the comparison to EMPs. Regardless of how easy or hard they are to obtain justifying a bunch of overpowered bullshit by the existence of a single hard counter is shitty game design and no amount of "git gud" shitposting will ever change this.
Last I'll say on the subject of flashbang construction, but you can produce a sec grade flash+bang grenade with two large beakers and a can of cola. No R&D required.FantasticFwoosh wrote:Easy to manufacture is false, you exclusively need R&D and if the AI/borg is in control of science (or uh is fully rogue, kills the science crew & wipes the database) then there's not a lot you can do about it until your bog standard grenades run out and then its a case of co-ordinating to get more from cargo. A borg is vastly more in control of the situation than you will ever be.
> Its not that you can't use flashes; its that because of the way its buckled, you CAN'T target the borg, and still have to dismount the rider (if the rider is wearing full flashblang protection, besides from shooting them off, the bottlenecked hard counter of flashbang and flashes (without getting out super specific ion gun) are completely shut off, literally just a stolen/printed sec hud & security earpiece.
Borg riding, more like antag stacking with +speedboost & double utility (without oranges proposed changes which are a good start like double handedness)
> On that point i agree entirely, but sprites are finnicky to hit anyway and only substantiates "get good" responses by running a skillcheck on flashing borgs with riders.cedarbridge wrote:The only thing that needs to be fixed is some of the overlaping on the rider/borg sprites to make targeting the rider consistent with the location clicked.
Please address my statement here.J_Madison wrote: absolutely no way to stun a borg that knows you're trying to get them they have electronic control which is better than all access.
Alipheese wrote:iamgoofball wrote:Grazyn wrote:Counter features with features. Make spears force a dismount. Traitor knight with energy sword riding on his metal steed? Make him crash into your spear wall.
FantasticFwoosh wrote: Engineer borg/rider either smashes the console into scrap and spaces the board or pockets it for themselves/decons & disposes. If there is no R&D up like how you might find on a round or the borg DELIBERATELY dicks with the research server to delete the cyborg console entry then you're screwed for that plan cedar. (if i wasn't there i think they would have spaced the ion gun too from my anecdote)
Didn't you hear them oranges? Borgs are unstoppable megazords with 3 active hands that cannot be stopped no matter what and always have a bolted shocked airlock between you and them but somehow manage to instakill you with an esword at the same time.oranges wrote:Did you people forgot borgs can be locked down by the RD or the AI?
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