Nanites feedback
- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
- Byond Username: Shodansbreak
Nanites feedback
Nobody else made a thread yet. Give your feedback to Nanites being removed here.
- Agux909
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
- Byond Username: Agux909
- Location: My own head
Re: Nanites feedback
I mean we got this...
...replaced by this:
My feedback is this:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: Nanites feedback
Do Circuits have any real application outside of griefing or replicating things the station already has, like Health Scanners?
Genuine question because my last interaction with them was a clown traitor MMI'd and put in a circuitbot forced to yell that he was "a naughty boy" repeatedly, given a bunch of ways to spam sound effects, etc.
Genuine question because my last interaction with them was a clown traitor MMI'd and put in a circuitbot forced to yell that he was "a naughty boy" repeatedly, given a bunch of ways to spam sound effects, etc.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Agux909
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
- Byond Username: Agux909
- Location: My own head
Re: Nanites feedback
Supposedly they "have a bright future". So it all hinges on some untapped potential we have yet to see. Maybe in a couple years they'll be good? But in the meantime, the wiki article is bare bones and there's no quick guidance at hand when starting from scratch. Surely sounds ripe enough to replace a settled, known mechanic already.Pandarsenic wrote:Do Circuits have any real application outside of griefing or replicating things the station already has, like Health Scanners?
Genuine question because my last interaction with them was a clown traitor MMI'd and put in a circuitbot forced to yell that he was "a naughty boy" repeatedly, given a bunch of ways to spam sound effects, etc.
As you've said they're commonly used by griefers and when not used by griefers the applications they have are overcomplicated 2.0s from other mechanics already present in the game, so whatever.
Nanites, like them or not, were a well-founded feature, easy and fun to teach to others, used by antags, non-antags, griefers and non-griefers, and it had actual positive/negative impact on the station while involving the player aspect (nanites in player hosts who were directly affected by them).
Circuits seem more like a single player feature you can spend your shift to jack off to with variables and shit, much like wiremod in gmod, to boast about how your complex logic circuit allows you to open a door.
Both could have co-existed because they are as different as botany and cargo. No, nanites weren't discouraging people to learn circuits. Circuits not being interesting or as complete as a feature was.
Maybe if noone touched nanites for years it's because the majority of the playerbase had no problem with them? Aside from people liking/disliking their implications I mean.
If you as a coder find a problem where there isn't one, instead of saying "but noone fixed them for 3 years", fucking fix them yourself or leave them alone.
This post is pointless but it feels good to rant a bit. Have a good day, specially the coders/mantainers.
- EuSouAFazenda
- Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:34 pm
- Byond Username: EuSouAFazenda
- Location: Brazil
Re: Nanites feedback
This. I have seen far more "turn that damn thing off, it's spamming general" than useful things come out of Circuits. Circuits is just Cytology 2: Released in a barebones state, useless and will just fade into the background. Circuits should not have released in such a shit state; it really does just feel like a coder had an idea for a mechanic, put in the bare minimun then said "the other coders will fix it".Agux909 wrote: Supposedly they "have a bright future". So it all hinges on some untapped potential we have yet to see. Maybe in a couple years they'll be good? But in the meantime, the wiki article is bare bones and there's no quick guidance at hand when starting from scratch. Surely sounds ripe enough to replace a settled, known mechanic already.
As you've said they're commonly used by griefers and when not used by griefers the applications they have are overcomplicated 2.0s from other mechanics already present in the game, so whatever.
Nanites, like them or not, were a well-founded feature, easy and fun to teach to others, used by antags, non-antags, griefers and non-griefers, and it had actual positive/negative impact on the station while involving the player aspect (nanites in player hosts who were directly affected by them).
Circuits seem more like a single player feature you can spend your shift to jack off to with variables and shit, much like wiremod in gmod, to boast about how your complex logic circuit allows you to open a door.
Nanites leaving... is fine, I guess. Nanites weren't the most interesting or interactive thing in the station, they unemployed medbay and killer nanites are so lame. However, replacing a fully fledged out mechanic with a barebones almost prototype of a mechanic was a incredibly stupid move that WILL be detrimental in the long run.
If the creators don't expand it, nobody else will.
-> Circuits are pointless, annoying and can't do cool stuff.
-> In turn, nobody will love this feature, and people will even hate it with its spamming.
-> In turn, nobody will want to give PR's to circuitry.
-> In turn, circuitry will just be Cytology again, useless and forgotten by most but a select few.
Taking off Nanites and replacing it with Circuitry was bad for the game. In my opinion, the Nanites replacement with Circuitry should be reverted, with Nanites back and Circuitry gone. I'm not saying this because I like Nanites; in fact I agree it's poorly designed for players who aren't playing Scientist. I'm saying this because what it was replaced by is an objective failure of a mechanic that is never going to reach its full potential.
In fact, I'd be fine with Nanites being gone and nothing replacing it; Circuitry and its "I made a robot who screams!" memes have made rounds actively worse than if it wasn't there. Circuitry itself doesn't really do anything to help or improve the round while the only thing it can do - screaming robots - is just awful.
Nanites were bad, and it somehow got replaced by something even worse. We'd just be better off with neither and instead just give more content to the now-renamed Toxins/Ordinance, Genetics or some of the other content-starved R&D areas. We shouldn't be adding more half-baked systems into Science, we should be giving more depth to the ones already there.
I remade the beach away mission
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
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- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Nanites feedback
sooo you know there's already like 4 people actively working on circuit prs, and we literally have twelve open right now, right?-> In turn, nobody will want to give PR's to circuitry.
If the creators don't expand it, nobody else will.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
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-
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:16 am
- Byond Username: Noodlecat
- Location: Funny crystal room
Re: Nanites feedback
Just make an exception for the current feature freeze and say that circuit features are okay, boom every feature coder is on circuits.
Like I have some ideas for circuits(mainly just making bs launchpad usb integration less painful so you can do fun stuff with it.) and the feature freeze is stopping me from adding anything cool to circuits.
Like I have some ideas for circuits(mainly just making bs launchpad usb integration less painful so you can do fun stuff with it.) and the feature freeze is stopping me from adding anything cool to circuits.
-
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:16 am
- Byond Username: Noodlecat
- Location: Funny crystal room
Re: Nanites feedback
Another idea I had is emagged circuit components, if you emag a circuit printer you get access to some fun and actually interactive circuit components. Also just a side note, can we make illegals behind weapons development technology, experisci is the destroyer of traitor gimmicks.
- Agux909
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
- Byond Username: Agux909
- Location: My own head
Re: Nanites feedback
Oranges admitted it's not a feature intended to add anything interesting to a round. They're there just for memes, and actual cool stuff is never gonna make it through.Noodlecat wrote:Just make an exception for the current feature freeze and say that circuit features are okay, boom every feature coder is on circuits.
Like I have some ideas for circuits(mainly just making bs launchpad usb integration less painful so you can do fun stuff with it.) and the feature freeze is stopping me from adding anything cool to circuits.
The 12 opened PRs are either super trivial or won't be merged because they would make things more interesting or exploitable. Those 4 people working on it will get burned out pretty fast when they see their complex unique fatures get heavily nerfed or rejected time and time again.Jaredfogle wrote:sooo you know there's already like 4 people actively working on circuit prs, and we literally have twelve open right now, right?-> In turn, nobody will want to give PR's to circuitry.
If the creators don't expand it, nobody else will.
Circuits all in all are a loss/loss singleplayer feature for losers that want to show off how big their brain is.
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Nanites feedback
Crazy, not only is not one thing said here true but you're also saying it to the maintainer who is code reviewing them (and has code reviewed at least 20 or 30 circuit PRs for the past two weeks alone) with the intent to merge them. This gives a better narrative to nanite removal being a mischievous plan just to troll you though, so sure let's go with that.The 12 opened PRs are either super trivial or won't be merged because they would make things more interesting or exploitable. Those 4 people working on it will get burned out pretty fast when they see their complex unique fatures get heavily nerfed or rejected time and time again.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- Agux909
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
- Byond Username: Agux909
- Location: My own head
Re: Nanites feedback
Only when I start seeing people doing impactful, game changing stuff with circuits in a round I may consider start taking your word with any weight.Jaredfogle wrote:Crazy, not only is not one thing said here true but you're also saying it to the maintainer who is code reviewing them (and has code reviewed at least 20 or 30 circuit PRs for the past two weeks alone) with the intent to merge them. This gives a better narrative to nanite removal being a mischievous plan just to troll you though, so sure let's go with that.The 12 opened PRs are either super trivial or won't be merged because they would make things more interesting or exploitable. Those 4 people working on it will get burned out pretty fast when they see their complex unique fatures get heavily nerfed or rejected time and time again.
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
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- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Nanites feedback
It's okay, I don't actually care how you read it
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- EuSouAFazenda
- Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:34 pm
- Byond Username: EuSouAFazenda
- Location: Brazil
Re: Nanites feedback
I can't wait to come back to this thread in December and laugh at all the "it's being actively worked on & it will get new cool feature" posts when that inevitably doesn't happen
I remade the beach away mission
- Mothblocks
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- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Nanites feedback
Go for it! Doesn't change any of the points I made about nanites though
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: Nanites feedback
Actual question, as someone who hasn't touched Circuits, is tentatively interested, but just hasn't gotten around to trying them so far: What kind of stuff can you do with them now other than noisemaker grief, and what are those new PRs going to add to that?Jaredfogle wrote:Go for it! Doesn't change any of the points I made about nanites though
Also, do you need special stuff to make airlocks circuit-controllable? I feel like I remember someone complaining about that.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Nanites feedback
Good question. The drive of new circuits is primarily USB cables--they connect directly to machines/computers and can automate them. Currently, USB support is limited, but the PRs that exist expand it. Recently we've added it to air alarms, a bit less recently we added it to bluespace launchpads (which a good handful of people are having a lot of fun with). If you search usb_port in the codebase, you should be able to figure out what machines are supported where.Pandarsenic wrote: Actual question, as someone who hasn't touched Circuits, is tentatively interested, but just hasn't gotten around to trying them so far: What kind of stuff can you do with them now other than noisemaker grief, and what are those new PRs going to add to that?
The broad goal is to have USB support on everything that isn't abusable. This means, for instance, that communications consoles won't have USB support since automatically sending messages/shuttle calls sounds only to be frustrating, but we'd definitely expand it to things like the SM monitor app so that you can create automatic SM setups.
The only thing I can think of is that you need some fairly weird combo in order to actually put the circuit in...it might just be right-click but I forget.Pandarsenic wrote: Also, do you need special stuff to make airlocks circuit-controllable? I feel like I remember someone complaining about that.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: Nanites feedback
You extremely have my attention.Jaredfogle wrote: The broad goal is to have USB support on everything that isn't abusable. This means, for instance, that communications consoles won't have USB support since automatically sending messages/shuttle calls sounds only to be frustrating, but we'd definitely expand it to things like the SM monitor app so that you can create automatic SM setups.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Mothblocks
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:33 am
- Byond Username: Jaredfogle
Re: Nanites feedback
You already kinda can with air alarm USB support, but having access to the exact information about the SM that the monitor gives I imagine will expand that a whole lot.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!Shaps-cloud wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.
Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
- oranges
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Re: Nanites feedback
[youtube]tV2tehpw9cs[/youtube]Agux909 wrote:Only when I start seeing people doing impactful, game changing stuff with circuits in a round I may consider start taking your word with any weight.Jaredfogle wrote:Crazy, not only is not one thing said here true but you're also saying it to the maintainer who is code reviewing them (and has code reviewed at least 20 or 30 circuit PRs for the past two weeks alone) with the intent to merge them. This gives a better narrative to nanite removal being a mischievous plan just to troll you though, so sure let's go with that.The 12 opened PRs are either super trivial or won't be merged because they would make things more interesting or exploitable. Those 4 people working on it will get burned out pretty fast when they see their complex unique fatures get heavily nerfed or rejected time and time again.
- Agux909
- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:26 pm
- Byond Username: Agux909
- Location: My own head
Re: Nanites feedback
oranges wrote:[youtube]tV2tehpw9cs[/youtube]Agux909 wrote:Only when I start seeing people doing impactful, game changing stuff with circuits in a round I may consider start taking your word with any weight.Jaredfogle wrote:Crazy, not only is not one thing said here true but you're also saying it to the maintainer who is code reviewing them (and has code reviewed at least 20 or 30 circuit PRs for the past two weeks alone) with the intent to merge them. This gives a better narrative to nanite removal being a mischievous plan just to troll you though, so sure let's go with that.The 12 opened PRs are either super trivial or won't be merged because they would make things more interesting or exploitable. Those 4 people working on it will get burned out pretty fast when they see their complex unique fatures get heavily nerfed or rejected time and time again.
- Flatulent
- Forum Soft Banned
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Re: Nanites feedback
I must say, removing nanites close to feature freeze was a bad idea IMO. Circuits are completely barebones and merging any new circuits PRs is impossible now. So what we have is a barebones feature that won’t be fully realised as a replacement for nanites for yet another month. I don’t doubt that circuits coders right now have multiple ready PRs they’re willing to merge at first possible opportunity, but right now we don’t have a replacement for nanites to fill the void.
Mothblocks, winter 2020, “successfully” preventing bagil death with relevant data wrote:You seem to be under the fallacy that reinforcing that Bagil is a TDM shithole where you must carry bolas and spears on you at all times, while looking for the next valid to hunt down is a positive change to the server. I don't. The data suggests other people don't.
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