MSO - Removal from a discord channel for wrongthink ?

[Somepan]

Discord account: Niku#3260
Ban type: Channel access removal (explaination below)
Ban length: Permanent (apparently)
Ban reason: Non-given as this is not a convential ban.
Time ban was placed: 22:23
Channel you were excluded from : Politics containement , going under Wall of text containement at the moment.
Your side of the story: MSO came into chat coming to argue (with sticky whom he pinged) about affirmative action. I disagreed with him, asking for a solution which he would prefer and finishing by telling him that his way of speaking his similar to Jordan peterson (Long but empty), i then went to shower and into my bed and before finally going to sleep (sorry if i sound rambly it's 1 am to me) i decide to check discord and i see that i can't speak in polcon, suspecting a cheeky little ban by MSO (Whom i was pretty inflamatory against) i decided to check logs and i found this ! https://imgur.com/a/bSZfPGr Which is an effective ban from the channel in which i've sent half the messages i ever sent in tgstation (estimation since i can't actually check that anymore)
Why you think you should be unbanned: While i was pretty aggresive in how i spoke and petty, picking on him for his last ban on me i don't think my actions were ban worthy, and i think he knows this too. Polcon is the more silly side of politics discourse and he knows this, this is why politics-on-topic exists at all. I thinks he knows this and that's why he didn't just ban or muted me.
Though while this ban is definitly unfair, at least that's how i perceive it, i doubt anything will be done about it, as MSO is the host and doesn't risk any consequences, aside from if he gets peer pressured by admins, like last time.
References of good conduct: I don't know i've sent what, 60k messages on the tg discord without a ban prior to my interactions with MSO ? Again, an estimate, as i can't read polcon's content.
Anything else we should know: I did pick on him for his last ban of mine, which you can find viewtopic.php?f=34&t=32469&p=652364&hilit=MSO#p652364. I would also file an admin complaint thingy but, pointless, as he is the host.

EDIT : I apparently insulted him at some point in the interaction, i'm sorry if i did and i failed to mention that, i genuinly don't remember doing so, and again, can't actually read what i wrote.

[Vekter]

MSO has been notified.

[MrStonedOne]

Background for the masses:

I posted a tower post homing in looking at the prospective likelihood of an individual to get into a ivy league college based on race, all other qualities being equal, and hinted to how if you try to make demographics in the college match demographic rates in the public, and not match application rates, this can mean that a some races end up having an unequal chance to get accepted. Because systematic problems (not all of them race based at the first order) mean that certain races apply less then others compared to their respenstation in the overall population, and the only form to ensure that a given person's ability to get accepted in the college isn't influenced by race is to ensure acceptance rates aren't drifting from application rates.

► Show Spoiler

The goal of ending discrimination is to ensure that each individual has an equal ability to be or do anything.

in colleges, this should mean that two identical individuals should have an equal chance to get accepted regardless of protected characteristics like race. This is first order equality. (note, in most laws, it's the whole class that's a protected class, not the minorities in the class ie, `sex` or `gender` is the protected class, not `female` or `women`)

There are systematic reasons why two identical children who want to go to the college might not both be able to get to the point of applying as adults or might not get to the point of applying with equally impressive applications, **but you can not solve those issues with AA in the latter stage of college**. Doing so unbalances the equation in the other direction, and instead of the old era where the individual white person has a higher chance of getting in compared to the black person, you've made it so the individual black person does.

At the end of the day, application rates have to match acceptance rates. Solving **why** application rates are lower in some demographics has to happen at the systemic level (primary schooling, tax dollar distribution, class mobility) and has to be individualistic (not assuming the amount of help somebody needs based on their race and its stereotypes, but the individual's circumstances).

The moment you allow demographics and stereotyping and race to erase individuals, you've taken a step back.

you honed in on the systematic issues part and demanded I come up with a solution for that too while implying that I'm supporting racist status ques if I don't:

[3:09 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: how do fix application rates at a systemic level if the whole system tells people they can't do it because they are from a disavantaged group bud ?
[3:09 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: cus no ammount of campaigns to "raise awareness" is gonna do shit
[3:10 PM]Moneyshock (Royal Variant): no offense meant but this reads a lot like "don't do anything at all unless you can fix all of it all at once" which is how nothing ever gets done
[3:16 PM]MSO: na, it sounds i'm saying that discriminating against majorities to inflate minority counts above the application rate isn't good.
]3:17 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: how do you fix it then mso
[3:17 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: do you not touch the system
[3:17 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: is that your solution
[3:17 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: status quo ?
[3:18 PM]MSO: each individual the applies has to have an equal chance regardless of race. creating a situation where white (or i guess asians) applications have a lower chance of getting in compared to other races isn't equality, it isn't justice.

but ALSO each individual has to have an equal chance to get to the point where they can apply. but that is a SEPARATE PROBLEM that requires a separate solution
[3:19 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: Then what is your solution.
[3:19 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: I'm asking for your proposal.
[3:19 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: how do you fix a bias system without switching it's biases for a time ?

How ever, after i took 3 minutes to type up an answer, you spat in my face.

[3:22 PM]MSO: stop inflating discrimination statistics byond reality that gives people false sense of 'its not worth it try', stop charging for the testing required to even apply, stop funding poor school districts with less tax money, stop basing funding on testing scores that creates a catch 22 for poor school districts, stop giving applications from people who have to work thru highschool or community college lower scores because they had less free time for application fillers like community service or extra corrlectular activities
[3:22 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: not reading your deluded rants
[3:23 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: you got the same tactic as JP
[3:23 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: long tect
[3:23 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: text
[3:23 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: little meaning
[3:23 PM]Amélia Vilain Arc: gn

Demanding I answer with a solution to solve systematic racism in primary schooling that leads to lower application rates in higher education and then telling me you won't even read it because its too long is dickish, it is frustrating, it frustrated me to no end to have that effort typing up the answer to world peace solution to systematic inaccess to higher ed was responded with toolong;didn'tread and i have long banned people who intentionally communicate in ways that frustrate. ask goof. (edit: or in otherwise, if you hadn't been the one to ask/demand i write what i wrote, you wouldn't be banned from pol-con right now)


However you have an issue. I'm the only person who thinks polcon should exist. Nearly every headmin and nearly every discord jannie has told me they think it should be deleted, which is the same thing as thinking everybody should be banned from pol-con.

So you are starting from a position where every person with authority thinks you should be banned from pol-con, and the headmins talking me out of the goofban isn't going to save you here.

So. my question to you, do you understand why you got banned, or are you still gonna insinuate it was for wrong think in your appeal?

[MrStonedOne]

The bit you missed while afk:

[Somepan]

So you admit that you are banning me because of poor debating form (i said i wouldn't read because i already said once that i was going to sleep by the way) and the way you justify that is :
1. Every admin i've spoken to (ignoring selection bias ignored) as told me they want polcon gone (completly ignoring the fact that MSO used polcon as a means to try and start a debate about a topic)
2. THEREFOR THEY WANT EVERYONE BANNED FROM POLCON
3. THEREFOR YOUR BANNED IS JUSTIFIED ?????

You banned me because you got frustrated how i answered to your wall of text whom i didn't want to read because : that's the only thing you write, and they didn't answer the question prior to that last one i guess.
But still, you used the power you held to ban someone you didn't like because they debated using what you perceived as bad faith in the less serious political channel. So yes, i understand why i got banned, because you're a unable to handle rudeness, but that doesn't mean that the ban in question is fair.
Yes i don't like you, yes i'm not entierly kind to you, doesn't mean you can ban me for it though.
And i was justified thinking you would ban me for wrongthink, since the last ban you issued to me was essentially based on a difference on how we perceive transphobia. (also i know it's not the place but i find it pretty ironic that i precendently got banned for calling an admin because someone used a slur and now i'm getting banned because i was rude not very free speech of you)

[MrStonedOne]

No, You don't get to demand in repeated pings and pinging replies that somebody answer a question and then publically state you refuse to read the reply.

Like no, not allowed.

Polcon is my house, and If I say that people who come in, repeatedly ask a question, and then once somebody starts answering shouts IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK gets kicked out; then that's how that goes.

You don't have to like it, you just have to tell me you understand why you got removed and that you won't ask people questions if you don't plan to hear the answer.

[Somepan]

Your grace I cometh for I finally understand my mistake.
I, in my blinded rage, dared to disrespect our beloved God-Monarch by not reading the answer He provided for my resquest of His knowledge, I ask for His redemption and I promise that I'll be a very good girl. Please allow me to partake in the Free Marketplace Of Ideas that is our beloved forum : Politics-Containement.

► Show Spoiler

Do not mistake this for respect i still think you're a manchild and the ban is unfair

EDIT : FIXED CAPITALIZATION

[Somepan]

Can you just refuse the appeal already, you're making this longer for both of us.

[MrStonedOne]

Can you just refuse the appeal already, you're making this longer for both of us.

oh, sorry, i haven't been taking this appeal seriously since it seems you haven't.

it's on my back burner.

[Somepan]

I have stopped taking it seriously the instant you applied it. You're a manchild, you're using the lack of accountability you enjoy to do what pleases you. I have no reason to bow before your requests of "accepting your ban" despite it being unfair.
I complied with your request, despite the form, now unban me or pussy out. I understand why you banned me, but i won't suck your dick to get back in.
You're willing to permaban someone from the channel in which they've spoken the most on your server because "they disrespected me".
Deny it already, so that i can come back to point out how shitty you are in a year, again.

You're entitled bans over nothing are just a pain to deal with, just end that one already, it's not like you'll suffer any consequences if it is unfair anyway.
Just admit you are a shit admin and close that appeal already. You are the actual personnification of the admin that takes internet debates too seriously.

And no i won't stop shitting on you here till you , or someone else closes it.

[Somepan]

Tell me, if you were to do a ban that you would consider unfair, would you back down ? Would you unban the person ? (if the admin team isn't behind your back pushing you to of course)
What even happens if you disagree with the person in front of you about the ban ? Because i doubt the headmins will do anything, after all, you're the host.

[Somepan]

You don't have to like it, you just have to tell me you understand why you got removed and that you won't ask people questions if you don't plan to hear the answer.

Oh and about that, how many times do i have to explain that it isn't what happened, I did ask for you to answer a question, 3 times exactly, 2 of which you didn't answer, and the third time, it took you so long i had decided to go to sleep.
You aren't entitled to my attention.

[Somepan]

You keep inflating how "bad" i acted in hopes to cover the fact that you had 0 reason to ban me other than you're fragile ego who couldn't support the fact that a person on the internet didn't read the answer to a question they asked you.
You're tiring and overall annoying, now you are even stalling for no other reason than to try to get on my nerves, either that or you're waiting for me to get angry enough, so you can justify banning me from forums like you threatened to 2 months ago.

[Somepan]

The worst thing is i know i'm only writting this shit for the other people reading the appeal because you will read all this, or not, and then swiftly ignore everything said, addressing none of my points.
I original wrote that i got banned for wrongthink because A. We were having an argument B. I was not on your side. I didn't even think about the "won't read, sorry, this is too long and i gotta sleep" (which was not what i wrote, but i'm paraphrasing what i *meant*).

[MrStonedOne]

I have stopped taking it seriously the instant you applied it. You're a manchild, you're using the lack of accountability you enjoy to do what pleases you. I have no reason to bow before your requests of "accepting your ban" despite it being unfair.
I complied with your request, despite the form, now unban me or pussy out. I understand why you banned me, but i won't suck your dick to get back in.
You're willing to permaban someone from the channel in which they've spoken the most on your server because "they disrespected me".
Deny it already, so that i can come back to point out how shitty you are in a year, again.

You're entitled bans over nothing are just a pain to deal with, just end that one already, it's not like you'll suffer any consequences if it is unfair anyway.
Just admit you are a shit admin and close that appeal already. You are the actual personnification of the admin that takes internet debates too seriously.

And no i won't stop shitting on you here till you , or someone else closes it.

Tell me, if you were to do a ban that you would consider unfair, would you back down ? Would you unban the person ? (if the admin team isn't behind your back pushing you to of course)
What even happens if you disagree with the person in front of you about the ban ? Because i doubt the headmins will do anything, after all, you're the host.

You don't have to like it, you just have to tell me you understand why you got removed and that you won't ask people questions if you don't plan to hear the answer.

Oh and about that, how many times do i have to explain that it isn't what happened, I did ask for you to answer a question, 3 times exactly, 2 of which you didn't answer, and the third time, it took you so long i had decided to go to sleep.
You aren't entitled to my attention.

You keep inflating how "bad" i acted in hopes to cover the fact that you had 0 reason to ban me other than you're fragile ego who couldn't support the fact that a person on the internet didn't read the answer to a question they asked you.
You're tiring and overall annoying, now you are even stalling for no other reason than to try to get on my nerves, either that or you're waiting for me to get angry enough, so you can justify banning me from forums like you threatened to 2 months ago.

The worst thing is i know i'm only writting this shit for the other people reading the appeal because you will read all this, or not, and then swiftly ignore everything said, addressing none of my points.
I original wrote that i got banned for wrongthink because A. We were having an argument B. I was not on your side. I didn't even think about the "won't read, sorry, this is too long and i gotta sleep" (which was not what i wrote, but i'm paraphrasing what i *meant*).

not reading your deluded rants
you got the same tactic as JP
long tect
text
little meaning
gn

[Somepan]

How come i get to be banned for something so trivial yet you get to ban me when i ping admins because used slurs to name a group ?

[Somepan]

not reading your deluded rants
you got the same tactic as JP
long tect
text
little meaning
gn

Context, this is what i wrote when he posted his answer. (edit: oh also, i clarified quickly after that i meant rhetoric not tactic as JP)
Here we can see MSO proving my point by acting like a petty child who uses my word against, in a totally different context, a context in which he holds the access to a channel above my head and jiggles it like keys to taunt me.
Thanks for proving my point MSO ! While everybody knew I was, and am, an asshole (which isn't bannable i think). They know you are one too.

I hope your nap is good, since, you know, it's mid evenning, for you. Unlike me, for which it was 11pm. But you'll conviniently forget that.

[Somepan]

Can an headmin close this one or smth. I'm tired of talking to a wall (of text). It won't answer. thx in advance.

[Somepan]

I'll be back in a year to see if you calmed down little boy.

[MrStonedOne]

How come i get to be banned for something so trivial yet you get to ban me when i ping admins because used slurs to name a group ?

You do understand that i didn't even know you were the same person as that until you mentioned it in your appeal, right?

Can an headmin close this one or smth. I'm tired of talking to a wall (of text). It won't answer. thx in advance.

no. I haven't ruled on it yet.

[Somepan]

Don't need your ruling to understand you denied it already, unless you have something to admit of course ?
Also you are clearly stalling, you clearly made up your mind, i did what you asked too, you have no reason not to give an answer, especially since you have time to answer to my thoughts about you.
Are you milking me for salt ? In appeals ? Doesn't seem very professional, or kind, it's even a little rude, almost ban worthy by your own standards.

[Somepan]

Also just because you were too thick to realize i was the same person doesn't mean you're logic isn't flawed, i'm not saying you are biased against me (even though i don't doubt you would be) i'm saying you are hypocritical !

[Somepan]

By the way
Admin guideline:
"3. If the banning admin has not responded to an appeal within two days any other Game Admin may ping the administrator in regards to the appeal. If the banning admin does not respond within 24 hours, or just hands it off the admin may take over the appeal. Discord bans may only be taken over by other discord moderators."
So enjoy sending a message every three days every to actuate the fact that you are, in fact, gonna respond, till you finally decide to do so.
Or don't, it's not like any discord admin is gonna act on a ban you placed yourself :p
Edit :I must say, poking holes into your immature attitude is actually a great substitute to polcon, i'm killing time like mad over here ! You should never close this appeal !

[MrStonedOne]

dared to disrespect our beloved God-Monarch by not reading the answer He provided for my resquest of His knowledge

You weren't banned for disrespecting me, you were banned for frustrating me.

You weren't banned for not reading the answer, you were banned for publicly saying you weren't going to read the answer (that you requested). If you had just gone to bed without saying anything or even something to the effect "took too long i gotta head to bed" you wouldn't be in this mess now.

It also didn't help your case that your chain of messages during the convo came off as demanding the reply under vague hints that i support a racist "status quo" if i don't answer it.

I'm gonna lock this appeal for 24 hours to give you some time to think and we can see if we can try again, But so long as you keep trying to pigeonhole this as "the great master is mad i disrespected Him" I will never be confident you understand why you got banned.

[Somepan]

I understand that i got banned for frustrating you and not any other reason.
I will not make people lose their time anymore. I won't ask for answer and say i won't read them afterwards.

[MrStonedOne]

Unbanned.