[Kubisopplay] Maxoess - The myth of consensual combat. Isn't there some one you forgot to ask?

Maxoess · Post by **Maxoess** » Sun Jun 18, 2023 5:59 pm #690600

BYOND account: Maxoess

Character name: Owen McShain

Ban type: Cook job ban

Ban length: Permanent

Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Cook permanently - This is a discretionary permaban from chef, prompted by repeated incidents of baiting people into conflict by witholding food, and then abusing CQC to escalate the conflict. You were warned for it before, and you were banned for it before. If you believe it to be a mistake, appeal on forums

Time ban was placed: 2023-06-18 15:42:08

Server you were playing on when banned: Terry

Round ID in which ban was placed: 208482

Your side of the story: As a chef I barred lizards from the bar and kitchen area, putting a note on the doors saying that they were not allowed. Lizard-Man and Xil-Go got thrown out of the area and kept coming back. This escalated further between us with both sides consenting and it was simply a bit of banter that all parties involved enjoyed.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I feel that Kubis acted in bad faith with this ban. He pro-actively bwoinked me for a victimless crime that wasn't ahelped. He proceeded to message lizard-man about it, lizard-man to my knowledge told him he didn't mind and he thought it was funny. Kubis still decided to escalate the bwoink further. During the bwoink Kubis seemed to lie for his own benefit and then later on change the narrative. An example of this is:

Kubis: Hello, could I ask you about what happened in the bar, especially with lizardman?

Owen: some banter. Barred him from the bar, he keeps coming back over and over. So I assume he's in on the gag. Did he complain?

Kubis: Yeah, and could you please tell me why did you think that critting people over being in public area is a good idea?

His response implies that Lizard-Man complained about the matter, which in fact is quite opposite from the truth. Besides that the bwoink then starts changing the narrative into how two people cannot consent to fight each other and that a ban I recieved 3 months ago has anything to do with this matter. Here's a full screenshot of the entire conversation for transparancy.

References of good conduct:

Anything else we should know:

Lizardistaken · Sun Jun 18, 2023 6:37 pm

I was Lizard-Man that round, and I am going to have to vouch for this appeal. I had never complained about the chef neither IC or OOC, in fact when Kubisopplay approached me about this, I had specifically told them I didn't want Owen to get in trouble for this because I was clearly giving signals that I was having fun by coming back and initiating chases around tables etc, and no one else was actually seriously hurt and getting critted other than me (in fact I was even epid by Owen when I was put into deep crit).

I also feel that the ban reason is an unfitting description for the round, because there was in fact always some food served on the kitchen table 90% of the round. I've read the appeal concerning Owens past instances of "baiting conflict" through food and as someone who visited the kitchen very frequently this round, I can confirm that there was no baiting into conflict whatsoever or any similarities to these past instances, I had not seen anyone get upset by his banter.

In the adminlogs Kubisopplays says "if you want to kill each other do it in holodeck" as if to justify this role ban between two willing people fighting and bantering, however this is something that is NEVER moderated or even made out to be an issue. People, including me, have willing fights in public very often and mods never make an issue out of it. It seems to me that in this case the moderator is trying to find reasons to punish Owen. I get this impression because the facts seem to get exaggeratingly twisted against Owen in the adminlogs, such as where Kubisopplays implies Owen critted multiple people, or where it's said "you should know better than to talk about ticket IC", despite the fact that I had first asked Owen if he had gotten into trouble IC. I would also like to add that when Kubisopplay approached me concerning the "conflict", they did not try to ask if I was bothered and instead instantly wanted a description of the events, when I told them I was just having fun and I did not think Owen should get in trouble I got no reply back. This detail shows that they did not care whatsoever whether or not the fights were willing and only strengthens the impression that this ban was personally motivated. As a whole I think that this role ban is unfair, most of the "conflict" concerned me and was completely different to his past cook incidents that the ban reason seems to mention.

Kubisopplay · Post by **Kubisopplay** » Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:09 pm #690615

I am very sorry you took me saying yeah as confirmation of what you said about lizard man complaining. I didn't even register that question, since I don't really answer "did someone complain?" when asked about that mid ticket.

If you feel the ban needs rewording I am completely open to suggestions, although I don't feel like that's necessary, considering it was placed because of a recurring pattern, instead of this one situation.

As for it being a victimless crime, I'd kindly disagree, since your behavior during this round fits fairly well into what was described in viewtopic.php?f=34&t=32117&p=647139

I'm currently in the process of compiling some more information, so I am not denying this appeal yet, but I can call headmins here, since I most likely will deny it.

Maxoess · Post by **Maxoess** » Sun Jun 18, 2023 7:23 pm #690621

That's fine, I don't think we would agree or come together in any point because I personally feel you are a bad faith actor in this case to begin with, considering your words and actions. I didn't expect anything else than a head admin ruling from the start.

I don't mean this as an insult or attack, but just to lay my cards on the table clearly. So yes please have a head admin review of this.

Lizardistaken · Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:39 pm

I don't think the fighting here is comparable with the posted ban incident, because in that case it was actually interrupting work and stopping people from being healed. The fights between me and Owen took place right outside the kitchen and bar, a place where people just sit waiting for food at most and where no one was trying to do their job.

Post by **Vekter** » Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:37 pm #690643

Based on the current Headmin Rulings, admins are allowed to intervene in situations without needing a player to adminhelp to do so.

Post by **Archie700** » Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:48 pm #690664

Round:208482

Logs:

Say logs of Owen banning lizards from the bar to Owen getting his kitchen bombed: