[Ian0] - Improvedname note appeal

[Ezel]

BYOND account: Improvedname
Character name: Lenald Wabbite-Andreev
Ban type: Note
Ban reason: As a revolutionary/heretic bombed the engine room leading to a delamination of the supermatter, spoken to about the typical antagonist precedences of revolutionary goals overriding their heretic goals, though ultimately the loss of power likely not too impactful from an OOC round perspective doesn't make a lot of sense IC and may impact your team mates as a revolutionary.
Time ban was placed: 2023-07-09 18:16:34
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: Round 209933
Your side of the story: I made Assembly Caps as a heretic where i got some midround got converted to teamantag (unaware of the of the policy ruling) i bombed the CE with the assembly caps i made
Why you think you should be unbanned: I think the note is very silly in general considering what the ce was gonna do (they were gonna try to contain a singulo/tesla with the main supermatter which will also produce no power though that doesn't excuse the actions) i think the loss of power is more rev favored since security can't recharge their guns letting revs also have a easier time to swarm them, the 3 smess cells are also charged fully which means it has enough power to atleast produce the station the next 30 minutes with power, (the solars are also setup so that stacks ontop of it) the supermatter can be easily fixed to get back to the orginal goal in the end it didn't inpact the round at all besides the ce being killed

I started helping fixed the SM after ian spoken to me, otherwise the other atmos tech or rafeal would've fixed it (non revs) so engineers doing their job to keep the station substained in power producing

Perspective of me bombing the CE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qB1rDBDhVg

[iain0]

Hey,

Not sure if this is necessarily worth the appeal ; personally I classify this kinda note as a 'lesson learned' sort of thing, as in, you now know something you didn't before, and all that really means is next time you can't say you didn't know.

It's not just or even really about the loss of power, i'm actually downplaying the power loss in the note, but you bombed the cooling loop into oblivion which will typically result in a vacuum chamber SM into a hot oxy plasma fire with a 3-4k EER explosive yield, which will blow at least 20 tiles radius off the map, OOC things like power are less relevant than you just taking out a whole department with a 40 tile explosion, IC the argument is more around you wanting a viable habitable functional station left as a revolution, not one where you're setting it up to blow core services off the map in an explosion that makes a max TTV look small and leaves you with a dead shell of a station. That's all really.
(Actual final explosion 16.3724/34.7449/36.7449/0)

You totally messed up the engine room, and subsequently engineering, and I don't think that's okay in the pursuit of a singular head kill under revolutions, same as chucking bombs liberally around any other department in pursuit of a single head.

But really the note is just a "hey don't do that again" flavour.

I'm probably unlikely to undo this but I'll let you give any response/additional input here.

[Ezel]

Alright then i want to talk the situation what would happen if the ce was left 100% and didn't get interrupted he acknowledged its revs and still was gonna turn the main SM into a tesla/singularity which would produce zero power its a popular trend of engineering to do this (it usually leads to tesla/singuloose would it lead into the same scenario or would it been ok if CE did this in that case was just gonna do as worse as me except he would've totally killed the power source where i destroyed the piping but it still could be easily repaired(which it did)

Would it been fine for the CE to do because from CE part it wouldn't make IC sense either since those engines don't produce power anymore

[iain0]

I'm not going to entertain the "what was the CE doing" in an appeal, it'll get off topic fast, and much as everyone is obsessed with the power situation (probably because I mentioned it as an IC footnote) the station will run for 20-30 minutes on APC batteries and so forth, and the shuttle is likely to arrive before much of significance happens. Turning the main engine into a non-power-source without an alternate as a non antag CE is questionable, but doesn't really relate to the core issue here.

My concern is largely with the use of explosives in terms of both wiping the engine facility off the map, leading to a delamination that wipes out the entire engineering department (and probably depressurises maints).



That said, I was certainly mulling this over last night about where the line would be on bombings in situations like this, and decided to go get some guidance from the admin community, had a few admins and headmins give me some guidance and as such I'm going to shift my investigation from the simple effects of bombing to instead looking to see if it /actually/ caused any issues for your team, because you're certainly +1 on team contribution for killing the head, so were there any actual downsides beyond the fairly typical SM exploding, which most people can probably endure by simply avoiding an already out-of-the-way area.

Either I'll find something and propose an update to the note, or find nothing and will withdraw the note, I'll get back to you when I've done my analysis.

Thanks

[iain0]

Far as I can tell from some investigation, one player died in the engine room / lobby area likely as a result of the supermatter explosion, however, I would also accept the argument they died to their unreliable network connection. Regardless, as a non revolutionary there's not even an indirect concern here.

I'll remove the note, but please bear in mind the "antagonist precedence" point which I think was a new one to you, and as always I just advise caution in team based situations with WMDs, but until it goes wrong, that's just informal advisory.

Thanks