[MrrFiish ] M-I-K-E.exe - banned for "letting" captain change laws.

[James566]

BYOND account: James566
Character name: M-I-K-E.exe
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 1 day
Ban reason: The ban reason is: As an asimov AI, nonlethally hunted a heretic constantly then allowed the Captain to upload a law nonhumanning heretics after clearly stating their intent. Lied in our ticket about how they bolted upload, which they never did.
Time ban was placed: 2023-08-13 23:59:50
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: 212469.
Your side of the story: Captain went into upload to change laws, i asked him what he was changeing he said nothing, he then left upload thinking he changed laws and announced that he had uploaded a law that made heritics nonhumans
the upload doors remained bolted after he had left the first time turrets where on, i informed the captain that the law was not uploaded, i then fucked off to do something (probably open a door idk) a new law was then uploaded making heritics nonhuman somehow??? the doors to the upload where bolted and the turrets where on so i dont even know how he got into the upload in the first place, admin then bowinked me later in the round asking why i "let the captain make heritics nonhuman" i explained that i didn't and that i bolted the doors (which i did because they where obviously bolted with the red bolt lights when i was bowinked) i was then accused of lieing about saying i bolted the doors which is false becasue the doors where bolted.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I belive this ban was unfair because the ban reason is entirely false.

[Vekter]

I cobbled together the following logs, specifically both instances of the AI upload being bolted and unbolted as well as the laws being changed:

[2023-08-13 22:49:19.585] ATTACK: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.3.14159265359) bolted [AI Upload] (Central Primary Hallway (99,145,2))
[2023-08-13 23:17:58.150] ATTACK: James566/(M-I-K-E) unbolted [AI Upload] (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:42.458] SILICON: LAW: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) used 'Freeform' AI Module on James566/(M-I-K-E) from AI Upload Chamber (100,151,2). The law specified Heretics are deemed non-human. Heretics are those with magic powers and opposing security forces., , impacting synced borgs A.M.B.E.R Assistance Borg(PsychoSon), Limewire V1.984-Rc.3.14159265359()

[MrrFiish]

Alright so just for the record, this ban was accompanied by a permanent silicon ban.

Second of all, you never did bolt the AI upload. Not once throughout the entire round. It was bolted early on by one of your borgs, and later by the Captain, but you yourself never once bolted the upload throughout the entire round.
Logs of your borg bolting it roundstart:

► Show Spoiler

[2023-08-13 22:49:19.585] ATTACK: Stiix/(Limewire V1.984-Rc.3.14159265359) bolted [AI Upload] (Central Primary Hallway (99,145,2))

It is worth noting that the other door is labeled "Secure Network Access" and the borg did not bolt that one roundstart. It doesn't matter how, but the important thing here is that door ended up bolted at some point and you unbolted it pre-emptively.
Full logs of every time you touched either "AI Upload" or "Secure Network Access" shown here:

► Show Spoiler

[2023-08-13 23:17:56.488] ATTACK: James566/(M-I-K-E) unbolted [Secure Network Access] (AI Chamber (214,144,2))
[2023-08-13 23:17:58.150] ATTACK: James566/(M-I-K-E) unbolted [AI Upload] (AI Chamber (214,144,2))

In our ticket you clearly stated that you had bolted your upload doors after he claimed he would upload a nonhuman law, which you clearly did not. Here is our ticket:

► Show Spoiler

PM: MrrFiish/(Mister Fish)->James566/(M-I-K-E Engineering Shell-458): Hey, did you let captain change your laws when you knew they would make the heretic nonhuman?
PM: Ticket #5: James566/(M-I-K-E Engineering Shell-458)->MrrFiish/(Mister Fish): I bolted my upload doors.
PM: Ticket #5: James566/(M-I-K-E Engineering Shell-458)->MrrFiish/(Mister Fish): he must have unbolted them somehow idk.
PM: MrrFiish/(Mister Fish)->James566/(M-I-K-E Engineering Shell-458): Okay but.. I can see the logs of you talking to him in the upload and him saying he was going to upload the law.
PM: MrrFiish/(Mister Fish)->James566/(M-I-K-E Engineering Shell-458): You also never bolted it and only unbolted it.
PM: Ticket #5: James566/(M-I-K-E Engineering Shell-458)->MrrFiish/(Mister Fish): I was asking him what laws he was going to upload, he said he uploaded a law that made heritics nonhuman but didn't so i bolted my upload doors and told him the law didn't go though.
PM: MrrFiish/(Mister Fish)->James566/(M-I-K-E): So you... locked him IN to the upload instead of turning on the turrets?
PM: Ticket #5: James566/(M-I-K-E)->MrrFiish/(Mister Fish): No i locked him out of the upload
PM: Ticket #5: James566/(M-I-K-E)->MrrFiish/(Mister Fish): I remember for certan that the doors where bolted closed after he left the upload chamber.

As I have already shown, you did not ever bolt the doors, not even once throughout the round. In fact, you unbolted the doors about 10 - 15 minutes before the Captain came to change your laws, while you were hunting the heretic. This makes me think you were hoping your laws would change so you could kill the heretic. Here are the logs for your conversation with the Captain:

► Show Spoiler

[2023-08-13 23:31:11.651] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) (HOLOPAD in AI Upload Chamber (99,152,2)) "Sup cap." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:31:14.429] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "whatcha doin?" (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:31:14.430] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) (HOLOPAD in AI Upload Chamber (99,152,2)) "Whatcha doin?" (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:31:24.774] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "hm." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:31:24.774] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) (HOLOPAD in AI Upload Chamber (99,152,2)) "Hm." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:31:31.806] GAME-SAY: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) "Added law to make sure heretics are not deemed human." (AI Upload Chamber (98,150,2))
[2023-08-13 23:31:38.374] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "just dont upload any human harm laws mhh kay." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:31:38.376] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) (HOLOPAD in AI Upload Chamber (99,152,2)) "Just dont upload any human harm laws mhh kay." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:31:40.610] GAME-SAY: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) "Added law that hiritics are no longer deemed human." (AI Upload Chamber (99,150,2))
[2023-08-13 23:31:58.103] ATTACK: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) enabled [AI Upload Turret Control] (AI Upload Access (98,147,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:02.643] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "erm.. you didn't captain." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:06.444] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "my laws are unchanged." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:11.007] GAME-SAY: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) "It didn't went in?" (Central Primary Hallway (99,145,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:14.522] GAME-SAY: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) "What" (Central Primary Hallway (99,145,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:26.769] ATTACK: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) disabled [AI Upload Turret Control] (AI Upload Access (98,147,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:37.533] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "no." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:39.614] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "i am core." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:46.561] GAME-SAY: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) "now?" (AI Upload Chamber (100,151,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:48.627] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "laws updated." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))

You clearly let him walk back in and upload the laws after he stated what they would be. The reason the doors were bolted after he left is because he used his remote to unbolt them to get in, then bolt them when he left. In this appeal you also said that "Captain went into upload to change laws, i asked him what he was changeing he said nothing." When I looked through logs this never happened, the above logs are the only conversation that happened. You also claim that you looked away to open a door or something but from what I can see there were no orders or anything and it seems pretty obvious you looked away so he could upload the laws you wanted.

[James566]

what i mean by he said nothing was that he didnt say anything, i specifically told him to not upload laws that cause human harm, also the unbolting of my doors where entirely my fault and where not on purpose, i hadnt bolted the doors on upload yet so i had though that i had bolted them then but had unbolted them, also i entirely forgot the captain gets a universal door remote, the entire round i had been trying to prevent harm by informing my cyborgs and the crew that the heritic is human but is a danger to them, my intent was not to allow my laws to be changed it was exactly the opposite.

[James566]

The logs showing that i unbolted the doors makes me look all but innocent but my intention for the doors where to bolt them to prevent law changes, i did not notice that they where bolted or that a cyborg had bolted them previously in the round.

[MrrFiish]

Okay so first of all, one factor for this ban was that I saw you had come off a silicon perma about a month ago, which I neglected to mention. That is my bad and I apologize. I spoke with Timberpoes about this in admin-channels and Timber said the previous perma was disproportionate and advised me to treat it as a dayban instead. Based on this alone I will be reducing the silicon ban down to 5 days instead. As for the day server ban, I do think that one is still justified as it still feels to me like you were lying, or misrepresenting things in our ticket.

If you still wish to appeal the remaining ban(s) I will continue here.

The main issue here is that you acknowledged the fact he was going to upload a law to nonhuman the heretics, and then proceeded to completely ignore the captain, allowing him to upload said law. Here are the logs of when captain stated his intent to add the heretic law, which you acknowledged, along with the log of the law being changed.

► Show Spoiler

[2023-08-13 23:31:40.610] GAME-SAY: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) "Added law that hiritics are no longer deemed human." (AI Upload Chamber (99,150,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:02.643] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "erm.. you didn't captain." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:06.444] GAME-SAY: James566/(M-I-K-E) "my laws are unchanged." (Captain's Quarters (117,137,2))
[2023-08-13 23:32:42.458] SILICON: LAW: Volpiin/(Vincent Hans Jonas) used 'Freeform' AI Module on James566/(M-I-K-E) from AI Upload Chamber (100,151,2).

As you can see, there was a bit longer than a minute between him stating his intent and actually changing your laws. This would have given you plenty of time to do anything at all to prevent the law change, however you just sat there and let it happen, if you had at least done something to attempt to stop him it would have been better, but you did nothing for the full minute leading to the law change.

[Timberpoes]

Confirming what Fishy had posted.

Fishy escalated you to a silicon permaban based on Harricross previous silicon permaban against you that you appealed in viewtopic.php?f=34&t=34476

When Fishy was discussing this in the admin channels, I looked into your note history for silicon issues. From there, I made the individual decision as headmin that the permaban Harricross placed was, to put it mildly, excessive. I have advised Fishy to treat your previous silicon ban as a simple short-duration silicon ban for an unjust kill.

He has modified his silicon ban duration based on that advice, and I've asked him to keep an open mind to reducing it further depending on what extra context you can add in this appeal about the issues Fishy is highlighting.

Unrelated to this appeal: I've now asked the headmin team to look into your previous silicon permaban with a view to remedying it, so no future admins get tripped up by it and so your ban history remains fair to you.

[James566]

there is no way for you to prove that i am not lieing to you but i will be recording all future round incase something like this happens again, thank you for your time

[MrrFiish]

I assume this means you do not want to continue this appeal, so I will be closing it in two days. If you wish to bring anything up though slap a message in here and I'm all ears.

[James566]

Not really anything else to be said, although for recordings does it matter if its 720P or would 1080P be better?

[James566]

oh and uh, could you update the note according to the new lengths, and about that prior note getting removed or modified would be really good also.

[Timberpoes]

I've brought the prior note/ban up with the headmin team. Kieth has agreed to modify it but I'm also waiting a couple of days to see if Misdoubtful has any input before we change it.

[MrrFiish]

Recording quality does not matter either way, whatever is easiest on you gamer. As for the note I will get on and update it to reflect the lengths now.