BYOND account: lawlolawl
Character name:
Ban type: Server (all servers)
Ban length: 1 day
Ban reason: As a non-antag killed an assistant with "very poor reasoning". You were banned before for killing someone on "poor reasoning", please be better informed when trying to pull the trigger.
Time ban was placed: 2023-09-24 12:46:15
Server you were playing on when banned: Terry
Round ID in which ban was placed: 215142, ban applied the following round 215145
Your side of the story:
I started off as an engi on Icebox, set up SM and fixed the bridge doors for the captain because of round start emagging.
Then in the halls I see this assistant breaking the gateway room reinforced window from the inside and fix it before the assistant manages to break it. The assistant is Nysa AN.
So this other person, an assistant by the name Ryker Roy / Derek Glover played by ckey Troll88 comes over later to help break Nysa out.
Troll88 had gotten their brain transferred to a skeleton so the name of the character becomes Derek Glover (as the ID was not displayed, he showed up as "Unknown" to other players). This was before anything involving me and him occurred, it was probably pretty early into the round.
Considering that Nysa did not ask for any help over radio comms, nor did I see Nysa use their PDA, it's fairly obvious that Ryker Roy is a metafriend using external communication or "playing in the same room" (a metacomms offence) because the PDA and radio logs clearly show that neither Nysa nor Derek used DMs at all.
In fact, if you check the telecomms logs it's pretty obvious that Ryker Roy / Troll88 did not use any radio comms OR pda DMs the whole round, another obvious tell that they were engaging in pure metacomms with Nysa AN.
Later on Troll88 / Derek Glover kills me in the main halls with a drill and Nysa AN steals my PDA and ID, presumably as a planned retaliation which is weird because throughout this whole idiotic episode Nysa AN could have asked the AI to open the shutters to get out. The captain even came over just after I repaired the window, saw Nysa and didn't do anything either.
So eventually after 15 minutes I get revived and my ID is gone; it was still with Nysa until Nysa got arrested / killed for being a traitor by the captain and HOS much later into the round.
I blew up Troll88 with a singletank I made after getting revived. This was with 5 min left in the round as the escape shuttle was arriving in 2 min.
Contrary to what Conrad Thunderbunch believes, it was NOT a ttv as regular Trit-based TTVs a) take too long to make and b) if it was maximum capacity I would have killed myself too.
Anyway, all I can say about this episode is that Nysa and Ryker Roy / Derek Glover were the ones who engaged in metagaming via metacomms, escalated by killing me and taking my ID, and then cried when I blew Derek up with 5 min left into the shift.
What makes this even worse, is that when I asked Conrad Thunderbunch if Troll88 would also catch a dayban for killing me (which is the bare minimum because he had no IC reason to do so beyond helping a metafriend), Conrad would "neither confirm nor deny" and immediately applied the ban to end the ahelp.
So unless Conrad comes here to explain, I can only assume that Troll88 was not banned or in any way punished for metacomms and killing as a non-antag, which would suggest double standards or rather selective application of the rules by Conrad. I hope this is not the case.
Furthermore, the ban reason / note / admin remark is overly vague. I would prefer it if more details and context was added as "killing someone on poor reasoning" is incredibly vague and completely misrepresents what occurred.
Thanks for hanging around bud. This is about round 215142.
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:05:01
reply
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:05:39
Did you activate a ttv on science last round, towards the end?
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:05:59
Ok that was not me... I said in OOC, that I HELPED the other scientist blow up a ttv
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:06:32
ok nvm different server
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:06:59
yeah the skeleton killed me FNR and was part of a metagang / metacomms##they also stole my ID with the tot Nysa AN, so helping as a non-antag
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:07:55
Nysa AN was just salty cuz I found em stuck in gateway as an assist / traitor##Even the cap showed up and shot him once and didn't bother to release Nysa, but Nysa got salty and called upon the metagang ("Unknown" skeleton") to help##Don't know the exact ID since it's a skelly
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:09:33
ummm is there anything else?
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:19:47
Sorry for the delay and thanks for the info. We're still looking into this.
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:21:00
So you "helped" the other scientist blow up a ttv by grabbing it, and throwing it at R&D?
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:22:56
no sorry, that was a different round on Sybil, where antag received my help in making a TTV and bombing shuttle, nothing to do with this round##I got confused because the round number was skipped, you can ignore that message my bad
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:24:04
just to clarify that traitor on Sybil just pretended to be new and I just helped with making the ttv for a bluespace anomaly, then the antag blew up the shuttle with the ttv I helped to make##Anyway that was a different round my bad
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:25:50
Right, we're talking about the last Terry round, no need to bring up that Sybil bit. Let's ignore that then. First of all, nice throw. You managed to get the bomb from CPH to R&D in one chuck and quite neatly explode the guy you had beef with earler.
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:27:08
basically for Terry round 215142 I retaliated against a metagang living skeleton who was actively helping an antag (Nysa AN)
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:27:15
What did Nysa AN do that made you think they were an antag?
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:34:07
Stuck in Gateway with no way in or out, didn't ask AI for help, just tried to break the window and didn't ask for my help either
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:35:12
They asked AI to open it and keep it bolted. How did they get stuck in gateway to begin with?
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:35:55
now I'm not sure if a new PR removed the CMD airlock but there were 2 reinf windows and the shutter
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:36:11
either way AI should have opened the shutters
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:37:49
the captain came over and didn't do anything either, just shot Nysa AN a few times
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:39:37
Right. So a few things: First part: Breaking into gateway is not an antagonistic aciton. Failing to leave is even moreso not the case; antags have ways to escape (mostly). Second part: you're not supposed to go after someone on a hunch. Neither of them were antags when the round started; Nysa AN rolled a midround antag, and that showed up on roundend. Third part: Neither Ryker Roy nor you were antags; detonating that TTV and killing him was texbook overescalation.
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:41:23
ryker roy (if that's the skelly) killed me and Nysa stole my ID
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:42:17
You were weekbanned before for mistakengly killing antags, but it's not related so that I think it should increase this ban. I'm issuing you the standard dayban for killing as non-antag.
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:42:38
????##So ryker is banned too?
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:43:25
We're still discussing that following your previous altercation. I'll neither confirm nor deny.
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:44:20
and I didn't "go after Nysa", I just repaired the window##Neither the cap nor AI did anything to help Nysa##Nysa just got a metafriend to help and got the metafriend to kill me (or the metafriend did it of their own initiative)
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:45:05
I didn't try to kill Nysa or anything after the metafriend broke them out, I just left
lawlolawl ➡ conradthunderbunch
2023-09-23T12:45:39
Client disconnected
➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:46:18
Conrad Thunderbunch/(Ricky Paxton) has created a temporary 1 day server ban for Lawlolawl.
conradthunderbunch ➡ lawlolawl
2023-09-23T12:46:19
Resolved by Conrad Thunderbunch
conradthunderbunch ➡ Admins
2023-09-23T12:46:20
Here is the course of events:
Nysa AN desired entry into the Gateway.
[2023-09-23 10:56:13.871] TOOL: Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) used the industrial welding tool on the reinforced window at Gateway (91,143,4)
[2023-09-23 10:56:35.906] TOOL: Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) used the industrial welding tool on the reinforced window at Gateway (91,143,4)
[2023-09-23 11:00:45.840] TOOL: Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) used the industrial welding tool on the reinforced window at Gateway (91,143,4)
[2023-09-23 11:01:05.293] TOOL: Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) used the industrial welding tool on the reinforced window at Gateway (91,143,4)
[2023-09-23 11:01:52.662] TOOL: Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) used the industrial welding tool on the reinforced window at Gateway (91,143,4)
At this point Nysa AN is stuck in there for around 10 minutes. At some point, Derek Glover gets stuck in there too, and tries to leave.
[2023-09-23 11:09:17.103] GAME-SAY: Keptyouwaitinghuh/(Nysa AN) "he got ou too!" (Gateway (92,144,4))
[2023-09-23 11:09:50.332] GAME-SAY: Keptyouwaitinghuh/(Nysa AN) "phew okay" (Port Primary Hallway (91,142,4))
[2023-09-23 11:09:01.061] ATTACK: Troll88/(Derek Glover) attacked [reinforced window] with the mechanical toolbox (Port Primary Hallway (91,142,4))
[2023-09-23 11:09:01.960] ATTACK: Troll88/(Derek Glover) attacked [reinforced window] with the mechanical toolbox (Port Primary Hallway (91,142,4))
[2023-09-23 11:09:02.898] ATTACK: Troll88/(Derek Glover) attacked [reinforced window] with the mechanical toolbox (Port Primary Hallway (91,142,4))
(hitting the window goes on for a while again)
They are both trying to break out. There are no more say logs after this besides you going "jump, into lava, god will protect you". I assume you just sat there while they tried breaking out. The ahelper said you eventually broke them out with your RCD. Derek Glover then started conflict with you.
[2023-09-23 11:13:33.445] GAME: Troll88/(Derek Glover) is no longer being ridden by Rylan Laborde. (Medbay Treatment Center (145,116,4))
[2023-09-23 11:13:33.445] GAME: Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) is no longer riding Unknown. (Medbay Treatment Center (145,116,4))
This is to illustrate the initial confrontation.
An entire 30 minutes later, you yeet your bomb at them.
[2023-09-23 11:45:23.045] GAME: Explosion with size (2, 4, 6, 6) in (Research and Development (186,118,4)). Possible cause: the oxygen tank. Last fingerprints: lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde).
[2023-09-23 11:45:38.238] GAME-EMOTE: Troll88/(Derek Glover) seizes up and falls limp, his eyes dead and lifeless... (Research and Development (186,115,4))
Your reasoning on the ahelp was that he had a fight with you earlier, and that his "metafriend" was an antag at round end. You were banned due to the following part of Escalation Policy:
Conflict is automatically suspended when one participant is dead or incapacitated. A player who uses the state of incapacitation to take further action against the downed party chooses to extend the ongoing conflict past its original endpoint, and opens themselves up to further reprisal to avenge damage or recover stolen possessions.
The initial conflict was over. You were taken to medbay and revived. You didn't interact with each other that much along the round in any noteworthy way, until you threw your bomb at him. That was the unjustified kill that triggered the ban.
I wanna take the chance here to give some considerations on what you said:
Lawlolawl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:47 am
I blew up Troll88 with a singletank I made after getting revived. This was with 5 min left in the round as the escape shuttle was arriving in 2 min.
Proximity to round end does not justify griefing. The most common cause of that is people blowing up the shuttle seconds before round-end. You blew Derek up minutes before round-end.
Lawlolawl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:47 am
Contrary to what Conrad Thunderbunch believes, it was NOT a ttv as regular Trit-based TTVs a) take too long to make and b) if it was maximum capacity I would have killed myself too.
That was actually my bad and I apologise. I went with "explosion" and didn't check for "tank transfer valve". I think you understood it plenty on the ahelp though, as the end goal of either in this story would be to make a bomb.
Lawlolawl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:47 am
What makes this even worse, is that when I asked Conrad Thunderbunch if Troll88 would also catch a dayban for killing me (which is the bare minimum because he had no IC reason to do so beyond helping a metafriend), Conrad would "neither confirm nor deny" and immediately applied the ban to end the ahelp.
You are not entitled to another player's administrative handling. To give you perspective, I did not disclose your ban to the original ahelper.
Lawlolawl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 1:47 am
Furthermore, the ban reason / note / admin remark is overly vague. I would prefer it if more details and context was added as "killing someone on poor reasoning" is incredibly vague and completely misrepresents what occurred.
Not too long ago you received a ban which you appealed and was rejected where you were banned for poor judgement on your part. This was a warning regarding that behaviour. Since the context was different, and it was another server, I did not factor this into the ban's length or severity. If anything, this was more of a piece of advice for you, and less of a warning for future admins.
Please bear in mind, as I'm about to repeat myself. It was 30 minutes after you died. You conciously made the choice of throwing a single tank with the previous conflict having ended. This is why you were banned.
If you have anything to add that might help your case, I'm all ears. Not gonna auto-deny this appeal in case there's something I missed.
Ok thanks for the reply, just noting a few main things here:
1. Nysa stole my ID off my dead body so that constitutes a continued escalation past my death, and since Derek / Ryker didn't stop Nysa from taking my ID the conflict obviously has not ended. In your own quote:
Conflict is automatically suspended when one participant is dead or incapacitated. A player who uses the state of incapacitation to take further action against the downed party chooses to extend the ongoing conflict past its original endpoint, and opens themselves up to further reprisal to avenge damage or recover stolen possessions.
Derek helped Nysa steal my ID when I was dead and didn't do anything to rectify that. So obviously that is an escalation past my death, and that's assuming that killing someone who was just repairing the station is somehow justified. As an engi I don't have the authority to break someone out of a place I myself don't have access to, if you want to take the PoV of RP.
2. You fail to address the blatant metacomms / metagaming by 2 players who mysteriously communicated with each other through non-ingame means.
3. The ban note is overly vague and I would prefer if you added context & details to it. If not literally any admin can just write "banned for grief" for every single ban reason and not care. You've only been an admin for less than a year so I'd like a headmin to weigh in on this, no offence.
Sure thing bud, I'll try to elucidate those points with your format:
1. There's an entire ocean of interactivity between "taking my id back" and "exploding this dude 'cos he stole my ID". Nysa took your ID, I believe, because you were repairing the window as she was trying to break out of. You could've gone after them, sure, since they took some of your things. You could've called sec. There is even the realm of chance where you could have been noted rather than banned if you threw your bomb at THEM instead of Derek since they took your shit. What you couldn't have done (and has triggered your ban) was throw the bomb at derek half an hour later. He didn't steal your things. Please bear in mind that, with the facts as they are, you overescalated and killed someone that didn't steal your things on a completely different, isolated incident.
2. I'll show a little transparency here and tell you that this has caught the attention of other admins. This, however, is not the focus of this ban.
3. I can change the note to be more descriptive, no problem. This was a, like I said, more of a piece of advice. What do you think of this as the new note?
"As a non-antag, bombed and killed an assistant as a reprisal from an earlier conflict that had reached it's end. Please do be careful when deciding to pull the trigger like that on someone."
Also as an addendum, since we're discussing the note's content, I'm assuming you don't want the note removed?
With respect to (1.) since it's an edge case which is not addressed in escalation policy (escalation against metacliques / metagangs) I would like a headmin(s) to weigh in on this and set a precedent and have it included in the server Policy.
I emphasize that as Derek / Ryder would have had no conflict with me at all if not for metagaming and coming to help Nysa, by killing me and helping Nysa, he is the one starting a new conflict with me FNR by killing me, but again since it involves another rulebreak (metagaming) I would like a headmin to rule on this.
Last edited by Lawlolawl on Sun Sep 24, 2023 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
alright, so just to clarify a few things here - your escalation with bombs was due in part to believing you were going after some metacommunicating players? i want it to be clear that if you see this, you should adminhelp it for investigation immediately - taking action into your own hands can only diminish our ability to investigate and act on it. in either case, this is not a ban request, this is a ban appeal - so we're going to focus on your appeal for your ban and cut out the white noise being thrown up about what the other players might have been doing.
from what i'm seeing, the process of this whole ordeal seemed to be that you saw somebody trying to escape a room, kept them sealed in for 10 minutes, and when they were eventually freed, they gave you a drilling, nicked your ID and dumped you off in the medbay. you woke up, got a bomb ready, and then 30 minutes later took the conflict back to an immediate 110% via bombing the hell out of them.
was there an active HoP this round to have replaced your ID?
if you could also help us figure out if you were the one that broke them out with the RCD and around when that happened, it could help provide some crucial context for their justification as well.
The person who killed me afterwards was a completely different person from the one who got stuck in the room. Troll88 / Ryker Roy / Derek Glover ran to help Nysa AN WITHOUT ANY IC REASON and did not communicate with each other AT ALL VIA IN GAME MEANS. He just ran towards Gateway and started helping to break the window FNR. Then the Troll88 WHO WAS COMPLETELY UNINVOLVED came and killed me FNR, presumably to take revenge for their metafriend. I have no clue what they told you via ahelp but once I saw Troll88 come as a metafriend to help I just left.
explain your actions without saying you only did it because you thought metacommunication was happening, as requested above, or i'm denying this appeal outright.
Umm I'm pretty sure I already stated what happened in the original post. If there are more details you need maybe a more specific question can help me provide you with the answers you need beyond "explain my actions"?
I don't know what Conrad Thunderbunch told you, but I am asking what the server policy is when it comes to escalation policy with respect to metacomming players who group up for no IC reason and escalate conflicts as a group. In this case, there was NO CONFLICT between me and the 3rd party (Troll88 / Ryker Roy / Derek Glover) but THAT 3RD PARTY CAME TO KILL ME FNR.
That 3rd party FURTHER ESCALATED AFTER I DIED by helping Nysa steal my ID.
As for appealing, I want you to state the server's policy when it comes to escalation between a player (i.e. ME) and a metaclique. When I claim that it was a metaclique, the context is that Troll88 (the 3rd party) wordlessly came and started to help Nysa. It's not as if it was a passerby who Nysa asked for help and they decided to help by their own judgement. For context, I did ahelp at the end of the round over the metacomms and Conrad claims that this has "caught the attention of admins" and that admins "looked into it" as well.
Unless what you are trying to say is that either:
a) METACOMMUNICATIONS are allowed and do not infringe on any server rules;
or b) Upon investigation, you find that there was no metacomms involved and that I had indeed escalated poorly.
or c) 2 wrongs don't make a right and while metagaming is unacceptable overescalation should not occur either and both parties are in the wrong.
Lawlolawl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 7:08 am
Umm I'm pretty sure I already stated what happened in the original post. If there are more details you need maybe a more specific question can help me provide you with the answers you need beyond "explain my actions"?
I don't know what Conrad Thunderbunch told you, but I am asking what the server policy is when it comes to escalation policy with respect to metacomming players who group up for no IC reason and escalate conflicts as a group. In this case, there was NO CONFLICT between me and the 3rd party (Troll88 / Ryker Roy / Derek Glover) but THAT 3RD PARTY CAME TO KILL ME FNR.
That 3rd party FURTHER ESCALATED AFTER I DIED by helping Nysa steal my ID.
As for appealing, I want you to state the server's policy when it comes to escalation between a player (i.e. ME) and a metaclique. When I claim that it was a metaclique, the context is that Troll88 (the 3rd party) wordlessly came and started to help Nysa. It's not as if it was a passerby who Nysa asked for help and they decided to help by their own judgement. For context, I did ahelp at the end of the round over the metacomms and Conrad claims that this has "caught the attention of admins" and that admins "looked into it" as well.
Unless what you are trying to say is that either:
a) METACOMMUNICATIONS are allowed and do not infringe on any server rules;
or b) Upon investigation, you find that there was no metacomms involved and that I had indeed escalated poorly.
or c) 2 wrongs don't make a right and while metagaming is unacceptable overescalation should not occur either and both parties are in the wrong.
Which one will it be?
again, the amount of white noise you're throwing up about this metacommunication thing is making it harder to parse the information i'm needing here. i went ahead and pulled up the game, attack, crafting, and tool logs on my own to analyze the timestamps of what happened, and while i agree there's something fishy about the lack of communication ingame between these two players, you having not adminhelped it until after everything had went down had complicated our abilities to act on it during the round in question.
you helped keep a player sealed in a room for an extended duration for zero reasons to begin this - and it looked like another player came to their aid, got locked in as well by your obstructions, and then came for you once they'd been freed.
according to the player that had attacked you, this was what their reasoning was.
It was like 20 mins into the shift he locked me and another dude inside of gateway and kept making walls over the airlock area and just stood there laughing, when igot out i used a drill to crit him then dragged him to medbay, after this like 1 hour later he comes charging up to science window and throws an TTV at me blowing me up and half of science dunno if someone else got cought in the boom."
the logs can confirm that you'd done some taunting here, and while RCD logging isn't fantastic, i can confirm that during this you did access the RCD UI, which supports his claims you were making walls.
11:02:24 EMOTE Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) claps. (92, 142, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:07:54 SAY Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) "alien!!" (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:07:57 SAY Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) "so real" (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:08:12 SAY Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) "there is but one escape" (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:08:16 EMOTE Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) points at the reinforced wall (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:08:16 EMOTE Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) points at the reinforced wall (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:08:16 EMOTE Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) points at the reinforced wall (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:08:17 EMOTE Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) points at the reinforced wall (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:08:18 SAY Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) "jump" (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:08:21 SAY Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) "into lava" (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:08:30 SAY Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) "god will protect you" (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:08:47 EMOTE Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) claps. (91, 141, 4) Port Primary Hallway
11:09:51 EMOTE Lawlolawl/(Rylan Laborde) claps.
again, you not adminhelping this suspicion put us right out of being able to confirm or deny that metacommunication was happening, as all we have left to work with right now are text logs, when these things are, by nature, best caught in the act. given purely what the logs are telling me, i believe that you getting beaten and dropped in medbay to have been a valid consequence.
you were alive for a whopping 4 minutes before starting to actualize your plan to bomb them in retaliation, with no attempt before this to get it back verbally or otherwise.
Ok, so mean words (or even just being sarcastic, if you're capable of understanding sarcasm) is a license to kill as long as you get sent to medbay later on. Next time someone calls me a bad word or insults my intelligence, I'll make sure to let them know too. Thanks for letting me know. Nothing to mention of the fact that the AI could have easily let Nysa out in the 5-10 minute period when all I did was repair the reinforced window, since we're talking about "could'ves" and "should'ves".
Conflict is automatically suspended when one participant is dead or incapacitated. A player who uses the state of incapacitation to take further action against the downed party chooses to extend the ongoing conflict past its original endpoint, and opens themselves up to further reprisal to avenge damage or recover stolen possessions.
Also, with regards to this (^^^) which Conrad kindly posted, apparently stealing items from a dead body is NOT considered a "further action taken against the downed party", so next time someone insults me I kill them and strip them of everything and dump their naked body in medbay, and I cry to an admin if they retaliate. Sure thing, I'll just direct any other admins here since you're willing to set this as a precedent.
As for ahelping with regards to the metacomms, I did do so, at the end of the round.
All in all you seem to be pretty evasive regarding metacomms so I'll just take it that the bar to prove metacomms is incredibly high and therefore you need to be extremely blatant before admins will be bothered to do anything. Nysa did nothing to request the aid of any other person, not even the captain who was right next to me when they were still stuck in the gateway, but some random Nysa didn't even talk to shows up and wordlessly helps is insufficient evidence to prove anything according to you and Conrad. Alright, noted.
I recognise that admins on TG are either unwilling or unable to definitively prove whether or not metacomms occur given that you apparently need to be watching someone like a hawk to prove it. And since there's no way of proving it (according to you) with anything short of a screen recording (as logs are apparently insufficient) that does not bode well for any future disputes regarding this unless either the admin in question does a screen recording or the person reporting it has one.
Therefore the escalation policy in TG is extremely exploitable by metagangs assuming they don't get caught, or perhaps being on some admin's good side is also sufficient. Evidently there isn't a way of responding to such behavior, or perhaps this is simply just regarded as less serious.
I feel like this falls outside of peanuting since this explains general policy. If not, please delete.
For reference, metagaming can be hard or easy to detect. Some cases will be very clear when it comes to evidence especially when they admit it. An example is of a screenshot of a conversation, recordings of voice chat and some other things.
For others we will need to observe it, since logs only tell us part of the story, we need to see it.
Since admins are generally considered reliable witnesses for such cases recordings are certainly not needed if an admin sees it. More evidence is always welcome, because that makes it easier.
Keep in mind that the punishments for metagaming tend to be severe because it's harder to prove.
However as for telling you or another player, we generally don't tell people about what punishment or how we dealt with the other players, nor will we comment about any investigation. The exception is permanent bans as they are public.
Also a simpler reason might be, we might not be finished yet with the investigation.
Players often mistake our vagueness for us not acting, it's generally the opposite.
Please make sure to always ahelp when you see suspicious behavior such as this or if you see people being rules in general. If no admins are online you'll get the option to automatically send out a discord ping to admins as well.
After all, we're here to ensure players get a great experience, a server and an admin is nothing without our wonderful players and coders.
Lawlolawl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:08 am
Ok, so mean words (or even just being sarcastic, if you're capable of understanding sarcasm) is a license to kill as long as you get sent to medbay later on. Next time someone calls me a bad word or insults my intelligence, I'll make sure to let them know too. Thanks for letting me know. Nothing to mention of the fact that the AI could have easily let Nysa out in the 5-10 minute period when all I did was repair the reinforced window, since we're talking about "could'ves" and "should'ves".
Conflict is automatically suspended when one participant is dead or incapacitated. A player who uses the state of incapacitation to take further action against the downed party chooses to extend the ongoing conflict past its original endpoint, and opens themselves up to further reprisal to avenge damage or recover stolen possessions.
Also, with regards to this (^^^) which Conrad kindly posted, apparently stealing items from a dead body is NOT considered a "further action taken against the downed party", so next time someone insults me I kill them and strip them of everything and dump their naked body in medbay, and I cry to an admin if they retaliate. Sure thing, I'll just direct any other admins here since you're willing to set this as a precedent.
[Snipped another wall of text about metacommunication when already asked to drop it from the appeal several times]
Thanks for letting me know this.
this is an extremely childish take and if i see you spitefully over-escalate and kill an unrelated party due to actions taken on you over separate issues, i will put your inevitable appeal over the subsequent ban directly into the garbage.
Lawlolawl wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:08 am
All in all you seem to be pretty evasive regarding metacomms so I'll just take it that the bar to prove metacomms is incredibly high and therefore you need to be extremely blatant before admins will be bothered to do anything. Nysa did nothing to request the aid of any other person, not even the captain who was right next to me when they were still stuck in the gateway, but some random Nysa didn't even talk to shows up and wordlessly helps is insufficient evidence to prove anything according to you and Conrad. Alright, noted.
I'm gonna be repeating myself a few more times, since you've been told both by the headmin you requested and by myself the same thing and seemingly can't stop dying on the same hill.
The metacomms suspicion is being investigated. It is not related to this appeal.
The ban wasn't related to the earlier conflict. It was an entirely separate incident. The only reason we're talking about that incident is because YOU believe it has anything to do with the later one that got you banned.
This is not a ban request, this is your ban appeal for bombing Derek without just cause. Someone breaking the rules isn't automatic justification for you to break the rules yourself. Two wrongs don't make a right.
So far you tried to play it like you're entitled to RR someone over your own suspicion of a rule break, brought someone elses administrative outcome as if you're entitled to it, and done nothing but antagonize people actively trying to help you come up with a reason to overturn this ban. Heck, tbm didn't even deny your appeal yet.
It's outta my hands since you hit the headmin review button even before I denied your appeal. But I assure you you're not getting anywhere if you keep hittin the metacomms button.
alright, i'm going to deny this one, and have the vote of at least one other head administrator to do as well. the ban is up, and the note is valid. in the future, keep focused on your appeal being about explaining why, from the perspective of your character, your actions were justified. should these two have indeed been metacomming as you've accused them of, you spoiled a good chance for us to be able to catch them in the act of it by deciding that an OOC rulebreak warrented IC retaliation.
