[subtlegraces] Niosai - Apparent metagaming?

[Niosai]

Byond account and character name: Niosai, Name in the game during the ban was Mojambo Hambang

Banning admin: subtlegraces

Ban reason and length: "Metagaming/metacommunication with Spartan8412", permanent ban

Time ban was placed (including time zone): Around 9:45 PM Mountain Standard Time

Your side of the story: I wasn't communicating with him at all outside of the game. Assuming the user in question was Philip Shafer who I was supposedly communicating with. We were running around together in the game, but that's as far as it went communication-wise. Anything that happened that seemed like it had any outside communication did not. What I think led to the ban was the fact that I was in the armory and he was also there. He literally just followed me into the armory. There wasn't anything more to it.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I didn't do anything wrong as far as I can tell. Nor did he. (Assuming he was also banned, since supposed "metacommunication" would go both ways). I was just playing the game.

[Subtle]

I did watch you both for some time before deciding to apply this ban.

That level of coordination doesn't just spontaneously arise without text communication. With all due respect you'd save us all a lot of time by skipping the part where we go back and forth about it. Deciding to gather equipment and go unknown for your attempt at breaking into Security through maint was done entirely without speech. Saving the officer who broke in to acquire the sunglasses was also done with silent cooperation.

In fact the only time you two did speak was to ward off third parties who approached you.
Let's not beat around the bush here. I'll be happy to consider lifting this ban after a realistic duration. Unless, of course, you insist on sticking to this story.

[Niosai]

I will say that we do know each other in real life, but that's pretty much as far as it goes. I will also admit that it was coordinated, but only because we've done this sort of thing before in other SS13 games. We play this once in a blue moon. Usually if one of us screws up something, and the other works to help fix it and generally be stupid. In this case, I lost my ID and he got it back for me. He gave me a luchador mask making me Unknown, and I went with it.

He dragged me into a small room and started breaking out the wall at that point, so I waited for him. Everything with the brig and such, including all the stuff that happened with Xander, were natural events. I did, at that point, think Xander was attacking him. He was also yearning for the stolen sunglasses, so I took Xander's and then gave them to him.

Then, I tried to get back into the armory and he followed me there. That part was not coordinated and we just both happened to end up in the armory.

So yes, there was a coordination involved at some level, in that we have done similar things before and do what we think is fun, but not one that involved us talking outside of the game.

Edit: And since I made the initial post, I have talked to him and found out that he received a similar ban. I can get his statement, too, if you'd like.

Edit 2: Also, I don't believe knowing another player outside of the game counts as metagaming, does it?

[Subtle]

Your best bet is to treat that guy like any other player.

When we see people assisting eachother for no discernible reason, cooperating to perform shenanigans like this silently it's a thousand red flags. An officer definitely shouldn't be defying his superiors and breaking in to get a lawyer gear because they know eachother outside the game; nor should the lawyer be interfering with arrests and enabling revenge missions for the same reasons. I'm sure you omitted knowing him OOC at first because you realize that.

I really don't believe there wasn't some sort of VoiP involved as well. You both split up and converged again twice, that whole thing at the dorms is a pretty wild longshot too since you just sat there in the room for the lawyer to fetch those tools before both of you went to the trial. Even with the inherent cooperation of being friends it takes some sort of indicator to plan this stuff, or to show there's a plan at all. He didn't even tell you to wait. It's just too perfect.

[spartan8412]

So, uh, hey. It's the lawyer. You've basically figured out what was going on, so I'm just wanted to come on and say that the main reason we did it is that it was slightly faster to yell at him to hide on skype, we were pretty sure no one was paying attention, and I wasn't super worried about it because we were mostly talking in that one dorm room. The metagaming here was mostly started by me. Once he told me he was in the game too, I'd start yelling at him on skype to do stuff. It didn't really spill over into both of us working together until that last round. Instances where I had him work with me over skype were when I asked him to take that other lawyer's sunglasses, and when I pulled him out of the office to the dorms. He told me he wanted to get back into the armory and get his stuff back, and it being mainly my fault he'd been beaten, stripped naked, and thrown out of sec, I agreed. I'd picked up his card earlier, so the basic plan was that we were both going to weld our way into the armory and get him his equipment. Then we welded straight into the courtroom while that trial was going on, and the whole thing kind of fell apart, and here we are. Me running into the armory after him was not coordinated, but he did tell me that he was in there, so I went to check up on him.

Anyway, rambling. The point is that now that we know people are listening who actually care that we're doing it, we won't do it again. I get that that doesn't exactly mean much at this point, but that's all I got.

[Niosai]

Alright, yeah, there was something going on, and I'm sorry for basically lying here. I really do enjoy the server though, and I've spent quite a few hours playing this one. I figured I'd jump on trying to defend myself in any way possible, but yeah, didn't really work out.

Also we did "metagame" just now, as he told me he was going to post that.

[Subtle]

Thanks for coming clean about it.

It's really one of our only "big deal" rules that'll get you removed on the spot. Considering you fessed up and the nonviolent nature of the shenanigans I'm willing to unban you both in nine days. (A week plus two for the silly attempt at misdirection) We'll note you knowing one another and move on as if nothing changed provided it doesn't become a habit. That said, I can't really go up to bat for you guys if it happens again and I was already super lenient in the first place.

I'm trusting that this will work out for everyone involved, so don't make me eat those words eh?