New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

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delaron
 
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New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby delaron » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:02 pm #452149

It has come up a couple times now that you can have near death experiences while in crit.

If I am in crit and get near death ghost chat text but recover before dying can I use any of that to affect my play?

If no then can we get a understanding as to why this near death mechanic was added?
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delaron
 
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby delaron » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:05 pm #452150

Code: Select all
   if(stat != DEAD)
      if(health <= HEALTH_THRESHOLD_DEAD && !has_trait(TRAIT_NODEATH))
         death()
         return
      if(IsUnconscious() || IsSleeping() || getOxyLoss() > 50 || (has_trait(TRAIT_DEATHCOMA)) || (health <= HEALTH_THRESHOLD_FULLCRIT && !has_trait(TRAIT_NOHARDCRIT)))
         stat = UNCONSCIOUS
         blind_eyes(1)
         if(CONFIG_GET(flag/near_death_experience) && health <= HEALTH_THRESHOLD_NEARDEATH && !has_trait(TRAIT_NODEATH))
            add_trait(TRAIT_SIXTHSENSE, "near-death")
         else
            remove_trait(TRAIT_SIXTHSENSE, "near-death")
      else
         if(health <= crit_threshold && !has_trait(TRAIT_NOSOFTCRIT))
            stat = SOFT_CRIT
         else
            stat = CONSCIOUS
         adjust_blindness(-1)
         remove_trait(TRAIT_SIXTHSENSE, "near-death")


For reference here is the code that this pertains to.
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Deitus
 
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Deitus » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:06 pm #452151

i dont remember which 'min i asked but i asked this question and they basically said that if you are able to maintain that near-death state for long enough to obtain information then you can use it ICly.
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Dax Dupont
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:06 pm #452152

delaron wrote:It has come up a couple times now that you can have near death experiences while in crit.

If I am in crit and get near death ghost chat text but recover before dying can I use any of that to affect my play?

If no then can we get a understanding as to why this near death mechanic was added?

Under current rules/situation you can't use ghost knowledge. The exception is the wizard scrying orb I think.

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delaron
 
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby delaron » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:09 pm #452155

Full disclosure I totally want to setup a back room death cult that tries to invoke and maintain a near death experience to gain knowledge. Something akin to the Flatliners movie.
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Anonmare » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:11 pm #452156

Only Astral Projection acquired ghost knowledge is valid. I.E. Cult magic/Scrying Orb

Also valid is knowledge acquired through Ouija board seances and visible ghosts pointing insistently at things.
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delaron
 
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby delaron » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:18 pm #452157

And thus why the policy thread. We have opinions of the rules that are all over the board. Seems like the headmin team might want to add this to the docket.
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby BeeSting12 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:19 pm #452160

Astral projection, scrying orbs, and near death experiences are all legitimate ways of gaining ghost knowledge IC. You're not allowed to use ghost knowledge from when you die and get cloned/defibbed, or use knowledge from previous lives or your time as a ghost when you respawn as another role. The difference here is that one is an IC way of gaining knowledge and the other is an OOC/meta way.

If it is against the rules, then it may as well be removed from the game.
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby NikNakFlak » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:21 pm #452161

Help two different admins said two different things in the thread

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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Atlanta-Ned » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:34 pm #452172

delaron wrote:Full disclosure I totally want to setup a back room death cult that tries to invoke and maintain a near death experience to gain knowledge. Something akin to the Flatliners movie.


I hope policy rules in favor of allowing this because I love it.
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby BeeSting12 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:36 pm #452174

delaron wrote:Full disclosure I totally want to setup a back room death cult that tries to invoke and maintain a near death experience to gain knowledge. Something akin to the Flatliners movie.

NSFW:
The Secret Rule of Mayhem
For experienced users only. Don't quote these at admins. If you're in a position where you need to defend yourself using this, you've done something wrong. This is about the personal freedom and responsibility an experienced player will have when they have the interests of others first.

This is a game that allows a lot of potential for great things to happen, and naturally the rules restrict a lot of that to ensure the minority don't ruin every round for everyone else. If you push the limits in the pursuit of something interesting for reasons other than your own personal entertainment, breaking the rules may be excused to allow for that freedom. This will always be at the admin's discretion of course, but if you want a large amount of freedom to make great things happen, you'll have to take on the responsibility for them. You won't be faulted if they go wrong in ways beyond your control, but this is a difficult line to tread so use it well. It's almost always better to consult an admin on this as they are more equipped to taking on that responsibility.

Everyone has a license to grief to a very limited extent. You can likely get away with borderline antagonistic behaviour (Never random murder, but stealing from the brig and triggering a manhunt, for example) occasionally, but it's when this becomes a frequent occurrence that people get frustrated and admins start to get involved.

Admins may handwave even severely antagonistic or rulebreaking behaviour if they believe it was ultimately beneficial, hilarious or awesome to the round. (F R E E D R O N E)

Do not open if you're a rules lawyer.
Stickymayhem wrote:you're right!

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Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Nilons » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:42 pm #452176

I think you should be able to use what you find out while near-death why even add it otherwise
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Dax Dupont » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:55 pm #452180

Disclosure I was only stating what the current policy seemed to be earlier.

delaron wrote:Full disclosure I totally want to setup a back room death cult that tries to invoke and maintain a near death experience to gain knowledge. Something akin to the Flatliners movie.

This is what I was thinking after I posted, that sounds like an hilarious idea that should for sure be allowed.

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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby WarbossLincoln » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:21 pm #452184

If you weren't allowed to use ghost speech from a near death experience why would it even be in game? Seems completely pointless. If you have any non-bug way to hear deadchat while still alive and in your body(scrying aside) it should be legit to use IC.
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Mickyan » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:34 pm #452189

To put the concerns of abusing this for metagaming to rest, when this got added we got together with a few players to test how viable it was to use and quickly came to the conclusion that it's far more trouble than it's worth outside of just doing it for the fun of it:

1. Keeping someone in that narrow health threshold is harder than you think
2. You have no idea whether the person in crit is actually getting any useful information until you break their communication and heal them, then you have to restart the whole process
3. Ghost court being what it is, the more you try to get ghosts to help the more likely they'll give you false information just to fuck with you

So basically anything you can get out of small snippets of deadchat is very unreliable information that should be considered as such. Same as if the clown told you someone is a traitor, it may make you suspicious of them but it doesn't automatically give you license to kill them.

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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby delaron » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:59 pm #452195

Mickyan wrote:To put the concerns of abusing this for metagaming to rest, when this got added we got together with a few players to test how viable it was to use and quickly came to the conclusion that it's far more trouble than it's worth outside of just doing it for the fun of it:

1. Keeping someone in that narrow health threshold is harder than you think
2. You have no idea whether the person in crit is actually getting any useful information until you break their communication and heal them, then you have to restart the whole process
3. Ghost court being what it is, the more you try to get ghosts to help the more likely they'll give you false information just to fuck with you

So basically anything you can get out of small snippets of deadchat is very unreliable information that should be considered as such. Same as if the clown told you someone is a traitor, it may make you suspicious of them but it doesn't automatically give you license to kill them.


So it makes it a perfect addition to the space paranoia simulator. I love it! No joke keeping someone between -90 and -100 health threshold is way too easy to fuck up.

Another point: I would figure that if they die all information gleaned because invalid.
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Cobby » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:07 pm #452227

Don't use information you obtain while your character is dead.

This rule does not apply to when you are not actually dead.
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Darkgenerallord » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:50 pm #452258

After some brief theorycrafting and testing, it's pretty easy to do. First method didn't work so it does require a second person and some maintenance, but it's not actually difficult.

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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Cobby » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:08 am #452263

It was mislabeled as "sometimes" occurring which I stated in the PR but lol
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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Grazyn » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:28 am #452846

BeeSting12 wrote:
delaron wrote:Full disclosure I totally want to setup a back room death cult that tries to invoke and maintain a near death experience to gain knowledge. Something akin to the Flatliners movie.

NSFW:
The Secret Rule of Mayhem
For experienced users only. Don't quote these at admins. If you're in a position where you need to defend yourself using this, you've done something wrong. This is about the personal freedom and responsibility an experienced player will have when they have the interests of others first.

This is a game that allows a lot of potential for great things to happen, and naturally the rules restrict a lot of that to ensure the minority don't ruin every round for everyone else. If you push the limits in the pursuit of something interesting for reasons other than your own personal entertainment, breaking the rules may be excused to allow for that freedom. This will always be at the admin's discretion of course, but if you want a large amount of freedom to make great things happen, you'll have to take on the responsibility for them. You won't be faulted if they go wrong in ways beyond your control, but this is a difficult line to tread so use it well. It's almost always better to consult an admin on this as they are more equipped to taking on that responsibility.

Everyone has a license to grief to a very limited extent. You can likely get away with borderline antagonistic behaviour (Never random murder, but stealing from the brig and triggering a manhunt, for example) occasionally, but it's when this becomes a frequent occurrence that people get frustrated and admins start to get involved.

Admins may handwave even severely antagonistic or rulebreaking behaviour if they believe it was ultimately beneficial, hilarious or awesome to the round. (F R E E D R O N E)

Do not open if you're a rules lawyer.

OT but this rule triggers me immensely, it literally says "this is a rule but if you have to quote this you are already wrong", and a new player reading the rule page has to slog through a long page of detailed rules, policy and precedents only to find this at the bottom which basically reads as "if you're an old player and friend with an admin you can get away with shit"

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Re: New Mechanic: critical status ghost speak

Unread postby Steelpoint » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:10 am #452857

One unintentional thing I noticed, I think, is that when I "die" from Regen Coma via Virology I can hear other ghosted players talking for a very extended period until I regen out of the coma.
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