Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Appeals which have been closed.

Moderators: In-Game Head Admins, In-Game Admin, TGMC Game Server Operators, Game Server Operators

User avatar
Shezza
 
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 6:54 pm
Byond Username: Wilchen

Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Postby Shezza » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:12 pm #525410

Discord username: Wilchen#0001
Banning admin: Plapatin
Ban reason: rule 0(doesn't exist on the discord server) and "1b: If you are permabanned within the server, the ban may be mirrored here at headmin discretion."
Time ban was placed: 2019-11-23 10:26PM gmt+
Your side of the story: I brought up my own appeal and own frustration at how it was handled by hulk.
Why you think you should be unbanned: If you really have to invoke a rule specifically made to ban me and not quote any other rules then I did nothing wrong in the first place. The fact that it took you two weeks to finally do it only proves me right in this siutation. If you really thought i was shit enough to remove from the discord you could've easily used any other rule, why did you do it now?



User avatar
Plapatin
In-Game Head Admin
 
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:26 am
Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location:
Byond Username: Plapatin

Re: Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Postby Plapatin » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:48 pm #525435

i want to be as concise with this as possible, since it appears that the "rule 0" part of the ban wasn't as clearly interpreted as i had hoped.
you've been in this community for a long time without ever participating in it (considering that you're still permabanned in-game) and have come up multiple times when any drama within this community is invoked.
you might have not been at the source of it, we can't deny the fact that it has been around you on more than one occasion.
why should we let someone who can't even play the game and is a consistent source of drama in the community (which, by the way, is still not allowed per rule 1) continue to be apart of it?

as an added point, i'd just like to be straight and say that we (the headmins) have decided that the community is far better off without you in it.
wesoda25 wrote:i had a dream that me and some friends were like in this tribal village and we were all doing cocaine around this massive bonfire and I kept seeing all these foreshadowing elements that we were gonna die but i just did more cocaine

i am immensely insecure please leave nice comments in my feedback thread

User avatar
Shezza
 
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 6:54 pm
Byond Username: Wilchen

Re: Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Postby Shezza » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:01 pm #526079

First of all, you made the rule specifically to apply it to me, because you had literally no other reason to ban me.

The ban was made on a flismy reason to begin with, It doesn't take two weeks to apply a ban to someone. Its clear that you wanted to use this rule against me since two weeks ago, I only got banned after a civil argument with hulkamania in particular.

Not being a source of a drama but being a target of it shouldn't be something you punish people for, that is a completely insane stance. Just because there are people in the community who try to target me with shit, doesn't mean it is my fault.

The idea that i'm not contributing to the community is completely bogus, you don't need to play the game to be active in the community, community exists outside of the game. Being on discord and actively talking to people is being a part of the community, I am a person people like to talk to, joke with and spend time with. While I realize that there are people that detest me, this is a incredibly absurd reason to ban people for and sets a shitty precedent.

Two weeks ago is coincidentally the time when you closed the complaint on stickymayhem, you surely are joking that you are punishing me for wanting someone who called me a pedophile punished. Why are you punishing me for a complaint that you yourself said was valid?

You talk about being a consistent source of drama as being a bad thing, but there are multiple examples of people who have drama around them, namely, cynic, oranges and others. You would not punish them for being a target of a drama, but you did it in my case which is extremely hypocritical.

The fact you actively lie in what you said about all headmins agreeing to the ban just makes this even more flimsy. As magikarp has to my knowledge been away for some time now and hulkamania admitted to not being a part of this ban.
Image

User avatar
Nervere
 
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:38 am
Byond Username: Nervere
Github Username: nervere

Re: Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Postby Nervere » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:44 am #526131

Plapatin wrote:why should we let someone who can't even play the game and is a consistent source of drama in the community (which, by the way, is still not allowed per rule 1)

You're wrong.
From the rules:
1a: Harassment and general drama-stirring will not be tolerated.
Making an effort to create drama is what is not allowed. Others creating drama about you, or people dragging you into drama, does not fall into this rule.

User avatar
Plapatin
In-Game Head Admin
 
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:26 am
Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location:
Byond Username: Plapatin

Re: Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Postby Plapatin » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:33 am #526325

Shezza wrote:First of all, you made the rule specifically to apply it to me, because you had literally no other reason to ban me.

right off the bat this is just plain not true. the rule was never about you (although you were partly considered when the rule came into effect) and i think it will come clear that i had plenty of reason to ban you besides this.
even if it was about you, what's wrong with that? rules are made when a need for them arises. do you think silicon policy was all made in one day?

Shezza wrote:The ban was made on a flismy reason to begin with, It doesn't take two weeks to apply a ban to someone. Its clear that you wanted to use this rule against me since two weeks ago, I only got banned after a civil argument with hulkamania in particular.

i have wanted to ban you since the second i became a headmin.
talks about this go as far as a month ago (october 30th to be exact), but i'm extremely hesitant to share details since, yknow, headminbus logs.
is there something wrong with that? surely if i believe without a doubt in my mind that the community as a whole is better off without a singular person in it, then until i am given valid proof to suggest otherwise (AND NOT IN THE FORM OF AN UNLOGGED VOICE CHAT, PEANUT GALLERY) i should act on those beliefs, right?

Shezza wrote:Not being a source of a drama but being a target of it shouldn't be something you punish people for, that is a completely insane stance. Just because there are people in the community who try to target me with shit, doesn't mean it is my fault.

i said you MIGHT not be at the source, with the implication being that across multiple instances there are times when you are both at and not at the source, not that you AREN'T. please don't put words into my mouth.

Shezza wrote:The idea that i'm not contributing to the community is completely bogus, you don't need to play the game to be active in the community, community exists outside of the game. Being on discord and actively talking to people is being a part of the community, I am a person people like to talk to, joke with and spend time with. While I realize that there are people that detest me, this is a incredibly absurd reason to ban people for and sets a shitty precedent.

although it's true that you don't need to play the game to contribute to the community, playing the game and actually being ABLE to contribute to the community help your case far more than not being able to.
if you can't play the game, why bother with the discord? surely you can contact the friends you made along the way elsewhere, but otherwise there's really no point in staying around, right?

Shezza wrote:Two weeks ago is coincidentally the time when you closed the complaint on stickymayhem, you surely are joking that you are punishing me for wanting someone who called me a pedophile punished. Why are you punishing me for a complaint that you yourself said was valid?

as i discussed earlier this is exactly that, a coincidence. two weeks ago is just when the ball started rolling.

Shezza wrote:You talk about being a consistent source of drama as being a bad thing, but there are multiple examples of people who have drama around them, namely, cynic, oranges and others. You would not punish them for being a target of a drama, but you did it in my case which is extremely hypocritical.

again, please don't put words into my mouth. i have and likely will again consider punishing certain(not dropping any names fuck you) players and admins alike for being the source of drama. if i can resolve the situation without punishment i almost definitely will. your case was different since it's clear that you weren't going to stop anytime soon, as proven by your multiple other bans.

Shezza wrote:The fact you actively lie in what you said about all headmins agreeing to the ban just makes this even more flimsy. As magikarp has to my knowledge been away for some time now and hulkamania admitted to not being a part of this ban.
Image

like i said earlier, talks about this go back as far as a month ago. i'm still hesitant to reveal anything unless the other headmins want to do it themselves but i can attest that they all agreed to this.
wesoda25 wrote:i had a dream that me and some friends were like in this tribal village and we were all doing cocaine around this massive bonfire and I kept seeing all these foreshadowing elements that we were gonna die but i just did more cocaine

i am immensely insecure please leave nice comments in my feedback thread

PostThis post was deleted by Plapatin on Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:10 am.
Reason: ree peanut posters get out

User avatar
Shezza
 
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 6:54 pm
Byond Username: Wilchen

Re: Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Postby Shezza » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:51 pm #526747

Gonna respond soon, things have been busy.


Today, I swear this time.

User avatar
Shezza
 
Joined: Sat May 27, 2017 6:54 pm
Byond Username: Wilchen

Re: Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Postby Shezza » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:13 pm #527698

right off the bat this is just plain not true. the rule was never about you (although you were partly considered when the rule came into effect) and i think it will come clear that i had plenty of reason to ban you besides this.
even if it was about you, what's wrong with that? rules are made when a need for them arises. do you think silicon policy was all made in one day?


This is self-contradictory, you say that the rule wasn’t about me but you still haven’t used it on anyone else but me since its conception. If the rule was truly needed then why did it take so long for the ban to happen and why was it ever used against one person. So far the only reasons to ban me you’ve presented were ‘being a focal point of drama’ and wanting to ban me from day 1 of your term, both are not reasons you would ban literally anyone else under.

surely if i believe without a doubt in my mind that the community as a whole is better off without a singular person in it, then until i am given valid proof to suggest otherwise (AND NOT IN THE FORM OF AN UNLOGGED VOICE CHAT, PEANUT GALLERY) i should act on those beliefs, right?


As a banning admin, you shouldn't act based on your emotions to suddenly decide to ban someone, no justice system should work that way and the burden of proof that I'm a complete net negative to the community lies on you. You can't decide to ban someone and force them to prove a negative, that is literally guilty until proven innocent.

i said you MIGHT not be at the source, with the implication being that across multiple instances there are times when you are both at and not at the source, not that you AREN'T. please don't put words into my mouth.


If thats the case then you surely are able to provide examples where I was the sole source of the drama. Again, this is your ban and the sole responsibility of providing such examples falls on you.

if you can't play the game, why bother with the discord? surely you can contact the friends you made along the way elsewhere, but otherwise there's really no point in staying around, right?


This is a stupid point to make, but also not a reason to ban someone. Just because they don’t/can’t play the game doesn’t mean that they deserve to be banned.

again, please don't put words into my mouth. i have and likely will again consider punishing certain(not dropping any names fuck you) players and admins alike for being the source of drama.


It doesn't matter that you're going to be punishing other people for it, its a stupid thing to do in the first place. The very act of banning someone because of people making a drama about them is a very bad precedent, you wouldn’t ban anyone else because of it, so why do it to me? It is unlikely that you will permaban someone from the discord such as oranges who is constantly a target of drama for the same reason.

if i can resolve the situation without punishment i almost definitely will.


If you wanted to resolve this situation you would've talked to me, but you made no attempt at doing so, clearly contradicting what you’re saying here. At no point did you or any other admin try expressing the concerns before the ban, it was just a solid ban. I’ve also had zero warnings on the discord moderating system headmins put in place.

your case was different since it's clear that you weren't going to stop anytime soon, as proven by your multiple other bans.


"Multiple other bans" is a really vague and a misleading statement, not only they were quite some time ago, my last discord ban was over ten months ago and I haven’t had any problems and no warnings since I was unbanned six months ago. I have no bans regarding drama. If you're trying to justify this ban you should provide better examples.

like i said earlier, talks about this go back as far as a month ago. i'm still hesitant to reveal anything unless the other headmins want to do it themselves but i can attest that they all agreed to this.


I'm not calling you a liar but what hulkamania says is clearly different from what you're saying here, If you agreed to this a month ago then why did it take you a month to ban me? Why did hulkamania say to me that it was all you? Why did you meant to do it two weeks ago but did it just now?

User avatar
Plapatin
In-Game Head Admin
 
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:26 am
Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location: Location:
Byond Username: Plapatin

Re: Wilchen - Ban Appeal

Postby Plapatin » Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:38 pm #527767

Shezza wrote:This is self-contradictory, you say that the rule wasn’t about me but you still haven’t used it on anyone else but me since its conception. If the rule was truly needed then why did it take so long for the ban to happen and why was it ever used against one person. So far the only reasons to ban me you’ve presented were ‘being a focal point of drama’ and wanting to ban me from day 1 of your term, both are not reasons you would ban literally anyone else under.

why do you insist so much on knowing exactly what i would and wouldn't do? those are both reasons that i WOULD ban someone under, and the rule is being considered to be used in other discord bans. things take longer than that.
Shezza wrote:As a banning admin, you shouldn't act based on your emotions to suddenly decide to ban someone, no justice system should work that way and the burden of proof that I'm a complete net negative to the community lies on you. You can't decide to ban someone and force them to prove a negative, that is literally guilty until proven innocent.

yeah fair enough
Shezza wrote:If thats the case then you surely are able to provide examples where I was the sole source of the drama. Again, this is your ban and the sole responsibility of providing such examples falls on you.

i'm not really somebody who collects dirt on others just in case i ever need to explain to them in a long-winded wall of text, but the main anecdote here was mostly related to meowtagang posts and especially your calls to influence the headmin vote by putting some candidates at the bottom and others at the top
Shezza wrote:This is a stupid point to make, but also not a reason to ban someone. Just because they don’t/can’t play the game doesn’t mean that they deserve to be banned.

i never said i didn't agree with that point, what i said was that being able to play the game makes a far greater case for being unbanned than not being able to.
Shezza wrote:It doesn't matter that you're going to be punishing other people for it, its a stupid thing to do in the first place. The very act of banning someone because of people making a drama about them is a very bad precedent, you wouldn’t ban anyone else because of it, so why do it to me? It is unlikely that you will permaban someone from the discord such as oranges who is constantly a target of drama for the same reason.

i would. that was my entire response to your point.
Shezza wrote:If you wanted to resolve this situation you would've talked to me, but you made no attempt at doing so, clearly contradicting what you’re saying here. At no point did you or any other admin try expressing the concerns before the ban, it was just a solid ban. I’ve also had zero warnings on the discord moderating system headmins put in place.

the moderation system was put in place last month and so far very few players have actually been used in it. of course you aren't going to have any record in it
Shezza wrote:"Multiple other bans" is a really vague and a misleading statement, not only they were quite some time ago, my last discord ban was over ten months ago and I haven’t had any problems and no warnings since I was unbanned six months ago. I have no bans regarding drama. If you're trying to justify this ban you should provide better examples.

see earlier response about this
Shezza wrote:I'm not calling you a liar but what hulkamania says is clearly different from what you're saying here, If you agreed to this a month ago then why did it take you a month to ban me? Why did hulkamania say to me that it was all you? Why did you meant to do it two weeks ago but did it just now?

the ban was me, yes, the ban took me a month because none of other the headmins would respond to me when i said i was about to do it. like i said earlier, two weeks ago is when the ball started rolling because we were able to vote and resolve some policy. i really wish you wouldn't focus on the most insignificant part of your ban reason so much, it makes responding very frustrating.



i'm a bit tired of arguing about this and it seems like this conversation is going nowhere. i know that there's nothing that i can say to make you happy about this, so i'm just going to be flat and say the appeal is denied. please don't come back.
wesoda25 wrote:i had a dream that me and some friends were like in this tribal village and we were all doing cocaine around this massive bonfire and I kept seeing all these foreshadowing elements that we were gonna die but i just did more cocaine

i am immensely insecure please leave nice comments in my feedback thread


Return to Resolved Appeals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users