[Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

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oranges
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[Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by oranges » #657706

BYOND account: optimumtact
Character name: thog#0001
Ban type: Discord
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason:
Permanently banned from sending messages in admin chatter, admin bus and admin auditorium channels for inappropriate posts including the following remarks targetted at an admin: "cynic makes me uncontrollably horny", "pushes my nuts into cynics face", "pumping cum into cynic as we talk"

Your side of the story: This happened as described
Why you think you should be unbanned: I apologise to cynic, I genuinely assumed they were okay with those messages being sent and didn't realise it was making them uncomfortable, it was not meant in a sexual manner but in a joking way, I don't ever intend to actually make people uncomfortable but when I get carried away I don't always think about what im typing before I type it. I have been trying to make an effort to respond less in the moment and I dont' know maybe it's working, maybe not. either way I'm still doing my best to not make people uncomfortable as much as I reasonably can.

References of good conduct: I think the most helpful thing for this appeal would to be to ask you to consider that the vast majority of my posts are not posts that are trying to harass people. Therefore on the balance of it, it's pretty clear i'm not actually trying to sexually harass anyone and that I just got carried away in a specific moment. However it's not specifically easy to demonstrate that point because most posts are just normal content if that makes sense. It's like asking to show evidence of normality rather than abnormality. In that case just read 99% of my messages which are banal random stuff like discussing game design and posting coding related content.

Anything else we should know:Lukas helped me with my ban appeal.

Also this ban was placed by timberpoes, and is still technically their ban, but its' not actually clear who has authority for the decision given the context was they were a headadmin at the time.

edit: Previous thread viewtopic.php?p=643438#p643438

edit: Also timerpoes/headadmins when you consider the request this time please consider the following, It's easy enough to search 345,000 posts and find a few examples of me saying stupid shit, but making a decision based solely on that is looking at only 0.005% of what is actually said, so please consider the totality of the comments and discussion added in general.
Last edited by oranges on Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:06 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by oranges » #657709

Also I will add in a seperate post because I don't think it should really have any impact on the ban decision, but there's a lot of discussion that is going uncommented on by headcoders because the other active headcoder is no longer in the discord.

You may choose to factor this into your decision as much or as little as you want.
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by oranges » #657715

To the rainbow array reading my thread, remember when you talk about it I can still see it, just not respond, so you may wish to share your thoughts privately in admin role only channels
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by NamelessFairy » #657720

Link to the previous thread: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=31891

This appeal was made on June 6th and was denied, under normal circumstances you cannot re-appeal a permaban for at least a year after the previous appeal.
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by oranges » #657721

it's a stretch to consider this a permaban, it's more like a job ban considering it's only a specific part of the community being removed/suppressed, there's no precedent for not being able to reappeal those in under a year as far as I am aware, anyway, i'd be thankful if timber and/or the headadmins considered it.
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by Timberpoes » #657741

The ban is for an indeterminate duration, so it is a perma by any other name because it will not automatically expire by passage of time. Ordinarily that would lead to summary rejection, however the ban itself is not very straightforward and I will briefly re-explain why.

It is a nontrivial ban as it was placed by me as a Discord mod intertwined with my authority as a headmin, and I passed my plan to exclude you from talking in the admin channels through the other two headmins of my term for approval before I acted on it.

The headmins of today control who can and cannot access the admin channels today, not the headmins of my term. And in 6 months, a new set of headmins will appear with their own views that the current term couldn't bind.

Accordingly, I feel it is important they have involvement in the outcome of this appeal. I am reaching out to them to discuss how we'll progress with this appeal.

However, as the person that placed the ban I will repeat the following points from last appeal:

1. You have previously been banned from the admin channels and unbanned by at least one previous headmin term. That this isn't the first time you find yourself in a position of being banned from the admin channels and wanting to be unbanned still gives me incredible pause.

2. The admin channels have been much improved without your participation. I still believe that is the case.

3. This ban was not placed because of the impact you had on Cynic individually, but because of the consistent impact your presence had on the admin team collectively. The severity of the triggering incident was so much of an issue that the usual approach of "oh, it's just oranges being oranges" wasn't going to work.

Candidly, I feel like I would be an idiot to choose to overturn this ban. However, the final decision will be informed by discussion with the current headmin team. I hope for the final response to be a collaborative outcome that all four of us agree to, or failing that one a majority of the headmins agree to.
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by oranges » #657743

Timberpoes wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:47 am However, as the person that placed the ban I will repeat the following points from last appeal:

1. You have previously been banned from the admin channels and unbanned by at least one previous headmin term. That this isn't the first time you find yourself in a position of being banned from the admin channels and wanting to be unbanned still gives me incredible pause.
Everyone wants to be able to participate, did you mean this from the perspective of you're pausing because it's happened before? otherwise it doesn't make any sense, also another way to frame the same argument is that if i was banned and unbanned previously then there must *still* be some value offered in the interactions I was mostly providing, either that or every headadmin term before yours is practicing some form of shared delusion.

edit: strike the first bit, I did misread it
Timberpoes wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:47 am 2. The admin channels have been much improved without your participation. I still believe that is the case.
You also can't see what might have been improved because of my participation as I am unable to offer it, so that's something to consider, you could look at past useful contributions if you wanted to consider the balance.
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by oranges » #657745

Also it would be helpful if you could clarify then exactly what I'm supposed to be appealing, was it the harassment or was it just a general pattern of behaviour?

And whichever way you land on that, please update the ban reason to reflect that?
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by Timberpoes » #657793

Many factors went into the decision and each is part of a bigger picture.

The incident itself got you administrative attention. If you hadn't posted the messages you did, you wouldn't have been banned at that point.
Time was spent talking to leads researching your past behaviour and how effective any punishments had been. The conclusion was that past punishments were not effective if you were still causing issues. A side consideration of this was that your behaviour was generally more problematic in the admin channels than outside.
That general pattern of behaviour and past history was applied to escalate severity. You may well have been simply warned or timed out without this factor.
My talk with Cynic did not lead to a change in punishment severity (either up or down).

So I guess I could say the incident in and of itself was what you were banned for, but it was also a metaphorical tipping point in the wider context of your participation in the admin channels which also factored in significantly.
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by oranges » #657832

okay but if I was appealing it, which bit would I focus on specifically?
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by Timberpoes » #657859

For me personally, I don't think there's a single point you can appeal on. Your entire history was factored into the ban. I would not want to see a repeat of any of the issues that led up to your current ban.

For an update on any final ruling: I have attempted to engage in discussions with the headmin team to guage their thoughts and make the most informed decision on this appeal's outcome. Attempted.

So far only one out of three headmins has actually bothered to even reply.

That one headmin has suggested we could roll back certain parts of your punishment, but not go as far as a full unbanning. So there could be a more iterative or potentially probationary approach to re-integrating you back into the admin channels fully.

I am keeping an open mind in these internal discussions, although I know there would still be strong opposition to any scaling back of your punishment internally.

However, if there is any opposition it's not coming from the two Cockatrice random encounter victims that forgot to equip their headmin Ribbons.

If this appeal is either denied or partly granted, I still want to figure out a good framework for whom future appeals would be addressed to. All I can ask is your patience while I attempt to extract blood from the remaining two stones.
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Re: [Timberpoes?] optimumtact - discord ban for sexually harassing a game admin

Post by san7890 » #658606

The channel-specific ban preventing Oranges from speaking in #admin-bus has been overturned by this term. The other two read-only restrictions on chatter and auditorium remain.

san7890: I don't think this aspect of the ban was administered justly in relation to the inciting offense.
Spook: I think admin-bus is far enough away from the more relatively personal chatter of admin-chatter that after this amount of time you can probably be trusted to keep on topic in it
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