[TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

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SquirrelSlapper0487
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[TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by SquirrelSlapper0487 » #727404

Occurred on Manuel, towards the end of round 227708, conversation with admin continued into round 227714.
Byond account: Squirrel Slapper
Character name: Sean Maguire
Admin: TheDuffelBag
Round ID: 227708 and 227714

My character name is Sean Maguire, was roleplaying as the masked superhero "Captain Staffie" at the time (my being a masked vigilante was fully sanctioned by the Quartermaster and the other heads of staff had been made aware)
Towards end of round, I had done zero illegal or even morally dubious things the whole round. I had been doing exactly what I told the Quartermaster I was going to do: run around maints with a mask and a specially made Assistant ID with the name "Captain Staffie" on it, "defending the station from evil" etc. Zero violence occurred and very few people even took notice of me without me directly speaking to them, and what I said to them was always some variation of "HAVE YOU SEEN ANY BAD GUYS AROUND HERE?". The worst part is none of what I've said up to this point may even be relevant. What happened next is that officer Victor Stone wordlessly stun baton'd and handcuffed me, and the reason I say none of my story before the arrest may be relevant is there's a high likelihood that officer Victor Stone had never even heard of me up to that point. Anyway, through all my verbal protests and demands for explanation, sec stayed schtum and kept me detained. Shuttle was nearly there, they brought me to the departures cell to wait. Shuttle arrived, they brought me to the shuttle brig and buckled me in. Me still demanding explanation all throughout, and not a peep from the officers. Clear case of genuine Shitsec. Sec is supposed to be held to a high standard on Manuel. Everyone knows this. I ahelp it. Admin asks for name of arresting officer, literally says "so I can ask them about the incident". Admin sees that the player has disconnected and concludes it's "probably not a biggie". No man, security are supposed to be held to a high standard on here what the fuck made you think this wasn't a biggie? You even tried to feign in the admin PMs that it was somehow out of your hands, as if you don't have ways of doing things when a player you want to question has disconnected?

Admin PM conversation in its entirety:

download/file.php?mode=view&id=4473
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download/file.php?mode=view&id=4474
Attachments
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Justice12354
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Re: [TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by Justice12354 » #727405

The ticket was dragged throughout two rounds and three different tickets. The images provided by Squirrel Slapper don't quite convey the entirety of the conversation, so, for the sake of transparency and organization, I will be posting it all (in a more organized manner).

Ticket 1 (R227708)
Spoiler:
[squirrelslapper ➡ Admins] Sec snatched me without a word at the end of the shift, still won't let me go or explain anything 21:41:41
[theduffelbag ➡ squirrelslapper] You sure there isn't any reason they've arrested you? Anything you suspect might have set them off? 21:42:18
[squirrelslapper ➡ theduffelbag] Absolutely 21:42:28
[theduffelbag ➡ squirrelslapper] Great. Who was the arresting officer so I can ask them about the incident 21:42:45
[squirrelslapper ➡ theduffelbag] victor stone 21:43:15
[theduffelbag ➡ squirrelslapper] Sorry man, it was likely an IC issue but we can't investigate at the moment because the player has already left the game. Considering how short of an arrest it was, it's probably not a biggie. 21:45:59
[Round ends.]
Ticket 2 (R227714)
Spoiler:
[squirrelslapper ➡ Admins] It was a biggie. I had done zero illegal things the whole shift and they snatched me and denied me the ability to be active on the shuttle. 21:49:38
[theduffelbag ➡ squirrelslapper] Look, it's really an IC issue. I don't have the information to investigate it. The next round is about to start, and I hope you can move on from it. 21:50:53
[squirrelslapper ➡ theduffelbag] Man this is the kind of shit I got banned from sec roles for doing (ON TERRY) 21:51:37
[Resolved by TheDuffelbag 21:51:45]
Ticket 3 (R227714)
Spoiler:
[squirrelslapper ➡ Admins] I was wordlessly arrested without explanation right before the shuttle arrived, by offiicer Victor Stone, then kept in captivity by sec until the round ended without ever getting an explanation despite my constant protests and demands for explanation, having done zero illegal things in the entire round. 21:55:08
[theduffelbag ➡ squirrelslapper] Look, what exactly do you want me to do about this? I understand that being wordlessly arrested can be frustrating but there's nothing to be done in terms of investigation here. It all unfolded at the end of the round with minimal impact on anyone. Please stop creating tickets over this. 21:58:00
[squirrelslapper ➡ theduffelbag] Ask the person playing the arresting officer why they did it, and if they don't give a good answer, punish them? 21:58:55
[theduffelbag ➡ squirrelslapper] I have already explained to you that we cannot do that. They are not here and were already gone by the time you sent an adminhelp regarding the situation. 21:59:23
[squirrelslapper ➡ theduffelbag] You have ways of dealing with such scenarios. You can leave a note that they see when next they log on. You have that capability, I have seen it. 22:01:22
[Resolved by TheDuffelbag 22:01:40]
Spoiler:
yttriums wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 12:13 am borg players shouldn't be able to ahelp. you signed up to play as a piece of equipment. this is like a table ahelping you for wrenching it
iwishforducks wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:50 pm lol i had gay anal sex with your father
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Imitates-The-Lizards
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Re: [TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #727406

Posting here because I happened to be in this shift and was loosely involved because I waltzed in to the shuttle brig during the evacuation and talked to him and some secoffs as this was occurring and witnessed everything - it was actually even worse than SquirrelSlapper is making it out to be, because not only was he arrested without any explanation and held all the way until the round ended, the Captain was actually explicitly trolling them and ordering Security not to release him.

[2024-04-23 21:42:41.924] GAME-SAY: 21:42:41.924] GAME-SAY: SingeStheos/(Alina Sutton) (mob_3625) "dont let him go" (Escape Shuttle Brig (34,178,6))
[2024-04-23 21:42:57.410] GAME-SAY: 21:42:57.410] GAME-SAY: SingeStheos/(Alina Sutton) (mob_3625) "i think its funny" (Escape Shuttle Brig (34,178,6))

These lines were said explicitly in regards to the complainant. Made this post since the context around these logs may have been lost without someone who was there at the time posting them.
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SquirrelSlapper0487
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Re: [TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by SquirrelSlapper0487 » #727414

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2024 11:48 pm Posting here because I happened to be in this shift and was loosely involved because I waltzed in to the shuttle brig during the evacuation and talked to him and some secoffs as this was occurring and witnessed everything - it was actually even worse than SquirrelSlapper is making it out to be, because not only was he arrested without any explanation and held all the way until the round ended, the Captain was actually explicitly trolling them and ordering Security not to release him.

[2024-04-23 21:42:41.924] GAME-SAY: 21:42:41.924] GAME-SAY: SingeStheos/(Alina Sutton) (mob_3625) "dont let him go" (Escape Shuttle Brig (34,178,6))
[2024-04-23 21:42:57.410] GAME-SAY: 21:42:57.410] GAME-SAY: SingeStheos/(Alina Sutton) (mob_3625) "i think its funny" (Escape Shuttle Brig (34,178,6))

These lines were said explicitly in regards to the complainant. Made this post since the context around these logs may have been lost without someone who was there at the time posting them.
Goddamn, thank you. I will not forget this.
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Isratosh
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Re: [TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by Isratosh » #727418

TheDuffelbag is a trainee admin that was acting with my guidance during these rounds. I have full responsibility for the actions in this complaint as I was instructing them how to handle it and I will explain these actions.

Your adminhelp was taken seriously and was investigated as best we could. We looked at the available logs for the situation, but unfortunately they did not provide much context or an answer to why you were arrested. The player who arrested you had died and disconnected by the time you sent the adminhelp, therefore we were unable to question them about their actions.
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules wrote: 3. For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins.
As per our security policy section of the server rules, quoted above, sentences up to 10 minutes are IC issues (ie. handle it yourself, get a lawyer, talk to the head of security, whatever, but you have to figure it out). A reply from the arresting officer explaining any reasonable thought would have been accepted as their reason for the arrest and the ticket closed. I am personally not willing to decide that there was no valid reason for these actions without a conversation with the arresting player. As an explanation was impossible due to them disconnecting and the total impact to your round was less than 10 minutes, it was ruled an IC issue and this was communicated to you. I believe this was a perfectly valid, if unsatisfying to you, course of action for an admin to take. Sometimes situations don't go your way and you can be taken out of the round by no fault of your own, and admins cannot provide a satisfying conclusion to every single ticket.

While I agree that TheDuffelbag's choice of words possibly downplayed the impact this had on you ("not a biggie"), this is more appropriate for a post on their feedback thread (which doesn't exist yet, you can use mine if you'd like) and not an admin complaint.
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TheRex9001
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Re: [TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by TheRex9001 » #727423

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=3741
This is the current thread for candidate admins, so if you want to leave feedback on them you should use this thread over Isratroshes
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SquirrelSlapper0487
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Re: [TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by SquirrelSlapper0487 » #727433

Isratosh wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 3:14 am
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules wrote: 3. For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins.
As per our security policy section of the server rules, quoted above, sentences up to 10 minutes are IC issues (ie. handle it yourself, get a lawyer, talk to the head of security, whatever, but you have to figure it out). A reply from the arresting officer explaining any reasonable thought would have been accepted as their reason for the arrest and the ticket closed.
No IC reason for the "sentencing" has been provided, therefore it's not an IC issue. Also the captain's remarks as shared by Imitates-The-Lizards make this an even clearer case of shitsec that requires administrative action. "Keep him detained because I think it's funny."
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Vekter
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Re: [TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by Vekter » #727437

SquirrelSlapper0487 wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 12:09 pm
Isratosh wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 3:14 am
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules wrote: 3. For arrested players, timed sentences up to a total of 10 minutes, buckle-cuffing, and stripping, are considered IC issues and are not actionable by admins.
As per our security policy section of the server rules, quoted above, sentences up to 10 minutes are IC issues (ie. handle it yourself, get a lawyer, talk to the head of security, whatever, but you have to figure it out). A reply from the arresting officer explaining any reasonable thought would have been accepted as their reason for the arrest and the ticket closed.
No IC reason for the "sentencing" has been provided, therefore it's not an IC issue. Also the captain's remarks as shared by Imitates-The-Lizards make this an even clearer case of shitsec that requires administrative action. "Keep him detained because I think it's funny."
The rules don't explicitly state that security players must give you a reason for why you were arrested. Issues like this are usually handled in-character by notifying either the Head of Security or Warden that an officer refused to tell you why you were arrested.

I will agree that the player stating that they kept you detained because "it's funny" would be something I would likely talk to the player about if they are available, but I also would not have felt comfortable acting on this without having words with them about why you were arrested in the first place.

If you feel that this part of the rules or the fact that we do not step in for sentences under 10 minutes is unfair, I recommend you make a policy discussion thread on the matter.
Billcyferka9 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:58 pm Bye bye asshole.
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
Reply PM from-REDACTED/(REDACTED): i tried to remove the bruises by changing her gender

PM: Bluespace->Delaron: Nobody wants a mime's asscheeks farting on their brig windows.

PM: REDACTED->HotelBravoLima: Oh come on, knowing that these are hostile aliens is metagaming

[17:43] <Aranclanos> any other question ping me again
[17:43] <Vekter> Aranclanos for nicest coder 2015
[17:44] <Aranclanos> fuck you
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Sightld2
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Re: [TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by Sightld2 » #727444

As for what happened IC, seems to be a case of mistaken identity.

Note these logs are highly edited which, technically I'm not supposed to do I think :thinking:

We see Yack making an Ai core from crafting.log
Then I took Attack and Say logs filtered for Squirrel Slapper and PileOfGravel, the bit where the arrest seems to take place.
Lastly, I was scouring security's telecomms just now to try and figure out how that mixup happened, but all I found was that bit at the end which seems to indicate it wasn't just Victor under this impression.

Code: Select all

2024-04-23 21:26:52 [mob_3149] (147,108,4) || Yack Miller (yackmiller) crafted AI core

[2024-04-23 21:35:05.732] GAME-SAY: PileOfGravel/(Victor Stone) (mob_3153) "where is yack" (Departure Lounge (195,135,4))
--Note  some time passes here--
[2024-04-23 21:35:20.972] ATTACK: PileOfGravel/(Victor Stone) (mob_3153) stun attacked Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 100)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (148,128,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:24.213] ATTACK: PileOfGravel/(Victor Stone) (mob_3153) stun attacked Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 100)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (143,130,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:25.717] GAME-SAY: Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) (mob_3141) "NO" (Starboard Primary Hallway (144,129,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:26.864] ATTACK: PileOfGravel/(Victor Stone) (mob_3153) attempted to handcuff Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) (NEWHP: 100)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (143,129,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:28.386] GAME-SAY: PileOfGravel/(Victor Stone) (mob_3153) "bad yack" (Starboard Primary Hallway (143,129,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:30.380] ATTACK: PileOfGravel/(Victor Stone) (mob_3153) successfully handcuffed Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) (NEWHP: 100)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (143,129,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:30.838] GAME-SAY: Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) (mob_3141) "AM THE HERO" (Starboard Primary Hallway (144,129,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:31.120] ATTACK: PileOfGravel/(Victor Stone) (mob_3153) grabbed Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)  (Starboard Primary Hallway (143,129,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:32.025] GAME-EMOTE: PileOfGravel/(Victor Stone) (mob_3153) points at Marion Semenov (Starboard Primary Hallway (143,129,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:36.195] GAME-SAY: Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) (mob_3141) "I'M THE HERO" (Starboard Primary Hallway (148,128,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:39.179] GAME-SAY: Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) (mob_3141) "NOOOO" (Starboard Primary Hallway (154,128,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:39.189] GAME-SAY: PileOfGravel/(Victor Stone) (mob_3153) "you made ai" (Starboard Primary Hallway (155,128,4))
[2024-04-23 21:35:44.234] GAME-SAY: Squirrel Slapper/(Sean Maguire) (mob_3141) "I'M THE HERO" (Starboard Primary Hallway (184,128,4))

[2024-04-23 21:37:17.829] TELECOMMS: LizeLive/(Sagittarius AX) (mob_3139) [Security] (spans:  command_headset ) "Why is captian staffie arrested?" (language: Galactic Common) (Departure Lounge (196,140,4))
[2024-04-23 21:37:49.199] TELECOMMS: Harcey/(Caitlyn Brindle) (mob_3196) [Security] (spans:  ) "You mean the assistant that made an ai and plasma flooded the front of brig with a flamethrower?" (language: Galactic Common) (Starboard Primary Hallway (184,130,4))
These things happen, and as mentioned I don't think you were held for over 10 minutes.
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dragomagol
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Re: [TheDuffelBag] Squirrel Slapper - Ignoring a genuine case of Shitsec

Post by dragomagol » #727899

Hello, and apologies for the delay in an official response. We have discussed this complaint with both TheDuffelBag and their trainer, and while we do believe that this ticket could have been handled better, we will not be upholding this as a complaint, but rather as valid feedback. Primarily, this appears to be a misunderstanding of how we typically handle ahelps at the end of the round, and not a display of malice or negligence.

We do thank you for bringing this matter to our attention, it helps us uncover weaknesses in our training system that we can address.
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