PKPenguin321 wrote:>We want the game to be less hug-box!
>Let's make stuns so unviable that people can't die from 99% of the fights that they would have died in previously, because dying to stuns sucks!
>This game is so hug-box. We should have more death! Less hug-box!
>Let's make stuns not work so we die less!
MAKE UP YOUR MIND REEEEEEEE
When did I say I didn't like dying?
Don't use an ad hom to devalue my statement or opinions please.
Those scenarios are more about having a fair fight than anything.
The tweaking of the stun is more about changing how combat works and making it more balanced. This also applies to antags whose revolver massacre can be stopped by one taser.
Amelius wrote:By the way, something of important note: ANY sort of stun nerf severely nerfs antagonists. Antagonists tend to be more poorly equipped than sec, and have few if any friends as opposed to a sec crew with solidarity and AI aid. However their sole and primary advantage is the element of surprise.
However, the value of this is exponentially lessened with weaker stuns, and almost entirely removed by removing any sort of direct stun, which means antags are fighting ridiculous odds without the equipment or ability to fight it, let alone dispose of targets stealthily.
0/10, it's OK as is, don't change something that's tried and true for something that will fuck everything up and make the game less lethal and... worse.
Antags still have the advantage; nobody expects syndicate soap whose duration has not been changed, none of the chemical values for the traitor toxins has changed. This change would also complement traitors whose revolver can be stopped by a single stun.
You can't doubletap a sec officer, but if you're in a maint shaft one stun from a taser shouldn't beat two shots from the revolver.
Put it in this perspective and being a traitor is easier. It's easier to escape from stuns and it's easier to survive an firefight knowing that the stun isn't going to beat your revolver.
lumipharon wrote:I just find it hilarious how people seem to think stun = win in every situation.
If you are fighting someone 1v1, and you have a stun weapon and they don't, then yes you will be able to ggnore them if you stunthem (assuming they aren't a ling/have adrenal implant).
But for every other fight, it is far from clear cut.
1v3 for example, I would choose a revolver every time over a taser.
Revolver double tap = crit and unable to get back into the fight.
Stun = they're down for 5 seconds then get back up while I'm still busy trying to deal with the other two people, who I was either unable to stun, or if I even was able to stun all 3, I can't keep them all stunned long enough to restrain them.
Shit is not clear cut yo - stuns are only objectively better, in situations where there is nothing stopping you from safely restraining them after the stun.
Unless you can deal 100 Damage, stuns always wins in a straight up fight.
Your scenario is far different. 3v1 is overwhelming odds. It's a different story all together when dealing with these masses. One person being able to stun and cuff two people is overpowered already. It shouldn't be possible to stun and cuff two people alone with 2-3 taser bolts.
Aside from this, if three people are after you and you somehow get the stun on all three you can at this point not only take their weapons, but also do what you like during those stun times.
The limits to a 3v1 is cuffing 2 before one gets up, which at this point it becomes a 1v1 between the two people as the other two that're cuffed are completely disabled and cannot help the fight offensively.
One person with an energy gun shouldn't be able to stun and kill or stun and cuff three well equally armed people under normal circumstances. Nada, shouldn't work that way.
Alex Crimson wrote:I love the idea of making stuns less overpowered, but this will not solve anything. People will just stunlock you whilst they laser/beat you to death. Its mostly ranged insta-stuns that are the problem.
I never intended to nerf stunlock (difficult). Hell if someone stunned and shot you with 3 disablers, that would be an even more powerful stunlock.
Even under these stun nerfs, if someone had an egun and wanted you dead, they could.
This fix doesn't immediately fuck up antags or security from arresting you.
An antag can still walk into MedBay, stun you and kill you.
A security officer can still stun you, baton or pepper spray you then cuff you.
The Assistant can still stunprod toolbox you if he absolutely wanted to, by alternating between stun and bash.
But now, you have a chance of fighting back.