Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
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Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Why would you remove flying to Derelict?
It's an unused feature, that isn't being used or abused, isn't bloating the code, and is just taking out an option that hypothetically could be used to do cool stuff.
Like, ops could go to Derelict, then fly to the white ship, and have the white ship dock and pretend it's an admin event where they are going to do X-Y-Z. Or steal the medibot parts to put a medibot on their shuttle. All these actions are "prepwork", which has an opportunity cost, so it may look like they are getting it for free, but every minute spent doing that is a minute where Genetics is researching, science is researching, robotics is making beepskies, and so on, which would make it more difficult for the operatives to do their job. And if they show up really late, they can be given a 5 minute and 20 second time limit, as they are red-alerted and shuttle evacuated early.
So flying to the sattelite, breaking in and getting the board may look free, but it isn't. Flying to Derelict is an underused feature which wasn't being exploited, and removing it is pointless.
It's an unused feature, that isn't being used or abused, isn't bloating the code, and is just taking out an option that hypothetically could be used to do cool stuff.
Like, ops could go to Derelict, then fly to the white ship, and have the white ship dock and pretend it's an admin event where they are going to do X-Y-Z. Or steal the medibot parts to put a medibot on their shuttle. All these actions are "prepwork", which has an opportunity cost, so it may look like they are getting it for free, but every minute spent doing that is a minute where Genetics is researching, science is researching, robotics is making beepskies, and so on, which would make it more difficult for the operatives to do their job. And if they show up really late, they can be given a 5 minute and 20 second time limit, as they are red-alerted and shuttle evacuated early.
So flying to the sattelite, breaking in and getting the board may look free, but it isn't. Flying to Derelict is an underused feature which wasn't being exploited, and removing it is pointless.
- Helios
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Secondly. Let's look at the stats as to how many Operatives actually buy the teleporter board, because I am betting that it will be very little.
If that is the case, you'll have just taken away more options as to what operatives can do, and pigeonhole them for no reason.
If that is the case, you'll have just taken away more options as to what operatives can do, and pigeonhole them for no reason.
- Steelpoint
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Here is the PR, by Kor, that removed the ability for Ops to go to these destinations: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13529
It seems like the only compelling reason as to why it was removed was due to the presence of a teleport board on one of the Satellite's.
What strikes me is that if that was the problem why not simply remove the board or move it to a harder to reach location instead of removing player choice from the Nuke Ops?
It seems like the only compelling reason as to why it was removed was due to the presence of a teleport board on one of the Satellite's.
What strikes me is that if that was the problem why not simply remove the board or move it to a harder to reach location instead of removing player choice from the Nuke Ops?
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Removing the teleporter board from the derelict just makes exploring space for everyone else a bigger pain than it already is as well as making the drone shells that spawn on the derelict essentially useless.Steelpoint wrote:Here is the PR, by Kor, that removed the ability for Ops to go to these destinations: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13529
It seems like the only compelling reason as to why it was removed was due to the presence of a teleport board on one of the Satellite's.
What strikes me is that if that was the problem why not simply remove the board or move it to a harder to reach location instead of removing player choice from the Nuke Ops?
nty
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Put a special proximity anti nuke op mine in the derelict teleporter. Eh it's something.
- Steelpoint
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
If the Ops want to expend five minutes to get a teleport board then why not?
- Kangaraptor
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Why would you punish the ops for thinking outside the box?
It's not like it's a free grab, it still takes some effort to put the shit together, and I can tell you right now 99% of ops wouldn't have the patience to allow it to happen.
It's not like it's a free grab, it still takes some effort to put the shit together, and I can tell you right now 99% of ops wouldn't have the patience to allow it to happen.
- Steelpoint
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
That would be a acceptable complaint if the server was hosting Nuke Ops 24/7, but we don't so its irrelevant.CosmicScientist wrote:One of the reasons on the PR is because the crew don't have the patience for Ops to show up later than the start of the round.Kangaraptor wrote:Why would you punish the ops for thinking outside the box?
It's not like it's a free grab, it still takes some effort to put the shit together, and I can tell you right now 99% of ops wouldn't have the patience to allow it to happen.
- Kangaraptor
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
That's a shit complaint and shouldn't be grounds for a PR.CosmicScientist wrote:One of the reasons on the PR is because the crew don't have the patience for Ops to show up later than the start of the round.Kangaraptor wrote:Why would you punish the ops for thinking outside the box?
It's not like it's a free grab, it still takes some effort to put the shit together, and I can tell you right now 99% of ops wouldn't have the patience to allow it to happen.
Remove PR post-haste.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Ops taking derelict board is not thinking outside of the box, it is done so often that it is one of the main ways to enter the station.
Alls that ops flying to the sattelite or derelict does is extend the round while ops get lost on their own little space adventure.
Alls that ops flying to the sattelite or derelict does is extend the round while ops get lost on their own little space adventure.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
That was not actually one of my reasons. Please dont attribute random PR comments to me.CosmicScientist wrote: One of the reasons on the PR is because the crew don't have the patience for Ops to show up later than the start of the round.
- Oldman Robustin
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Eh its fine by me.
It fits into a good balance philosophy. Nukeops thought outside the box and they were rewarded with not just one round, but months of a tactic that made them extremely difficult to stop (especially if they just camped out with a camera bug and just insta-gibbed the captain once he stepped on the bridge and then ops swoop in and yank the disk out of some maint. room that nobody else can track).
Now its not thinking out of the box, its standard procedure for teleport ops and while its not a big deal (tele-Ops rely on surprise and confusion, not backpacks full of ammo and goodies), it's also not a big deal to remove something that makes the tactic even easier while also delaying the nukeop assault for no particular reason (you're not going to make meaningful progress in your dept. during an op round, so having everyone sit around an extra 5 minutes on the pretense of an ordinary round isn't a good thing).
It fits into a good balance philosophy. Nukeops thought outside the box and they were rewarded with not just one round, but months of a tactic that made them extremely difficult to stop (especially if they just camped out with a camera bug and just insta-gibbed the captain once he stepped on the bridge and then ops swoop in and yank the disk out of some maint. room that nobody else can track).
Now its not thinking out of the box, its standard procedure for teleport ops and while its not a big deal (tele-Ops rely on surprise and confusion, not backpacks full of ammo and goodies), it's also not a big deal to remove something that makes the tactic even easier while also delaying the nukeop assault for no particular reason (you're not going to make meaningful progress in your dept. during an op round, so having everyone sit around an extra 5 minutes on the pretense of an ordinary round isn't a good thing).
- Helios
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
You bring up thinking outside the box but this cuts off every single option from those 2 z-levels to spite a single tactic which fell into the syndicate playbook. It's cutting off your nose to spite your face when it comes to syndicate interaction.
- Takeguru
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 5:20 pm
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Okay, I'll bite.
What other options did those z-levels enable that wasn't stealing a teleporter board?
What other options did those z-levels enable that wasn't stealing a teleporter board?
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
For the derelict the SWAT helmet/baton I guess but no ops ever realistically powergamed hard enough to go steal the swat helmet because of the armor values. So the teleboard was about it.
Spoiler:
- Helios
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Alternate space suits. I know mining always works for suits, but sometimes there are 3 miners at round start. This is especially important because Void jetpack+suit allows for high mobility without instant "call the shuttle its a syndi.Takeguru wrote:Okay, I'll bite.
What other options did those z-levels enable that wasn't stealing a teleporter board?
Derelict has all medbot parts. Sometimes people come back to the shuttle injured, that lets them get free healing. The white ship can just be used for fun as another space ship, and allows plenty of tactics by itself.
Derelict has a full plasma tank. Could be used for chaos purposes.
- sirnat
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Lets also not forget, white ship has retro laser gun and med hardsuits.
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- TGMC Administrator
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Nuke op rounds will be better off without this.
Nuke ops using a teleporter is an extremely powerful tool, that should rightly cost the ops a considerable chunk of their tc's.
Hell, even WITH the high cost, as oldman said, a camera bug can be used to basically just wait for the opportune time to gangbang the captain without any real chance to do anything.
I don't even know why the derelict and sat got added as destinations for the nuke ship.
Manually flying into space to get a teleboard is thinking outside of the box.
Flying your ship to a pre-loaded destination and just picking it up is not.
Nuke ops using a teleporter is an extremely powerful tool, that should rightly cost the ops a considerable chunk of their tc's.
Hell, even WITH the high cost, as oldman said, a camera bug can be used to basically just wait for the opportune time to gangbang the captain without any real chance to do anything.
I don't even know why the derelict and sat got added as destinations for the nuke ship.
Manually flying into space to get a teleboard is thinking outside of the box.
Flying your ship to a pre-loaded destination and just picking it up is not.
- Helios
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
I just found out that Ops can't fly to Mining.
What the FUCK Kor?
What the FUCK Kor?
- iamgoofball
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Why would the ops need to fly to the derelict
- J_Madison
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
baton toolbox spacesuit(s) emp grenade camera console plasmaiamgoofball wrote:Why would the ops need to fly to the derelict
- Luke Cox
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
possible_destinations = "syndicate_away;syndicate_z5;syndicate_ne;syndicate_nw;syndicate_n;syndicate_se;syndicate_sw;syndicate_s"Helios wrote:I just found out that Ops can't fly to Mining.
What the FUCK Kor?
>z5
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Also half my motivation for replacing the teleporter with a pod was to end telebombing, so I still don't really want to put them back.
- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
So who took out flying to mining?Kor wrote:possible_destinations = "syndicate_away;syndicate_z5;syndicate_ne;syndicate_nw;syndicate_n;syndicate_se;syndicate_sw;syndicate_s"Helios wrote:I just found out that Ops can't fly to Mining.
What the FUCK Kor?
>z5
Wasn't me
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- Jordie0608
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Docking port is missing, likely accidently removed when asteroid was remapped in https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13574
Fix https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/14090
Fix https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/14090
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- CPTANT
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
About that pod, could you please pressurize the pod hangar? Having to deal with all that spacewind is very annoying. It is also a major pain for syndicate reinforcements because they spawn without a suit. Also the syndicate outpost depressurises which is annoying.Kor wrote:Also half my motivation for replacing the teleporter with a pod was to end telebombing, so I still don't really want to put them back.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: Ops can't fly to Sattelite or Derelict
Fixed. Now a little walkway to enter the pod. If people still somehow depressurize it I'll look into other ways to fix it.CPTANT wrote:About that pod, could you please pressurize the pod hangar? Having to deal with all that spacewind is very annoying. It is also a major pain for syndicate reinforcements because they spawn without a suit. Also the syndicate outpost depressurises which is annoying.Kor wrote:Also half my motivation for replacing the teleporter with a pod was to end telebombing, so I still don't really want to put them back.
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