make adminshopping bannable
- iamgoofball
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make adminshopping bannable
if one admin wont ban someone for something, the easiest solution is to wait for them to DC then ahelp it again for the next admin
make this bannable
make this bannable
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
It's already highly frowned upon and factors into ban decisions and appeals.
- iamgoofball
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
i do not trust the administration to moderate themselvesfeem wrote:It's already highly frowned upon and factors into ban decisions and appeals.
- captain sawrge
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
loliamgoofball wrote:i do not trust the administration to moderate themselvesfeem wrote:It's already highly frowned upon and factors into ban decisions and appeals.
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
You're welcome to audit all ahelp logs. I've already been thinking about putting all player text into elasticsearch and performing lexical analysis, there's no reason why you can't do the same thing with ahelps.iamgoofball wrote:i do not trust the administration to moderate themselvesfeem wrote:It's already highly frowned upon and factors into ban decisions and appeals.
- Atlanta-Ned
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
ahelp logs aren't publicly available.feem wrote:You're welcome to audit all ahelp logs. I've already been thinking about putting all player text into elasticsearch and performing lexical analysis, there's no reason why you can't do the same thing with ahelps.iamgoofball wrote:i do not trust the administration to moderate themselvesfeem wrote:It's already highly frowned upon and factors into ban decisions and appeals.
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OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Guess someone who doesn't trust the admins of the server they play on is screwed then!Atlanta-Ned wrote: ahelp logs aren't publicly available.
- iamgoofball
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
This is a shitty excuse to avoid transparency.feem wrote:Guess someone who doesn't trust the admins of the server they play on is screwed then!Atlanta-Ned wrote: ahelp logs aren't publicly available.
- Atlanta-Ned
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
I've been pushing for ahelp tickets to be logged to the DB but that's not up to GameAdmins. I think it's a headmin thing? Not sure where the line is.iamgoofball wrote:This is a shitty excuse to avoid transparency.feem wrote:Guess someone who doesn't trust the admins of the server they play on is screwed then!Atlanta-Ned wrote: ahelp logs aren't publicly available.
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OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
I would not mind them being public
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
I definitely think they should be public; I thought they were.
- Lazengann
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Sometimes admins go afk or pull an IcePacks and vanish during your conversation though
- Cobby
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
that's taking what you can get as opposed to shopping.Lazengann wrote:Sometimes admins go afk or pull an IcePacks and vanish during your conversation though
Punishing you for things we do would be a bit unfair.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Two concerns of them being public are
-People being hassled for ahelping
-Admins being hassled for not being mean enough in ahelps after a player insists they go yell at someone
-People being hassled for ahelping
-Admins being hassled for not being mean enough in ahelps after a player insists they go yell at someone
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
but goof doesn't trust admins to police themselves
- Atlanta-Ned
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
People are gonna get hassled in general. I'd say we should put tickets in the DB, but keep the various frontends admin-only (and tie them to bans/notes etc), with the ability to publicize them if necessary.Kor wrote:Two concerns of them being public are
-People being hassled for ahelping
-Admins being hassled for not being mean enough in ahelps after a player insists they go yell at someone
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OOC: Pizzatiger: God damn Atlanta, how are you so fucking smart and charming. It fucking pisses me off how perfect you are
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
the choice between getting hassled and not hassled is pretty clear to me
I also don't want my adminpms as a player or admin readable by everyone. If it's a matter of specific 'public interest' the logs usually get looked up and posted anyway.
I also don't want my adminpms as a player or admin readable by everyone. If it's a matter of specific 'public interest' the logs usually get looked up and posted anyway.
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- CPTANT
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
I don't think this requires a policy change because everybody is already aware that this is a shit thing to do.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Arianya
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
i also don't think you should be sating any of goofballs minimod delusions
Don't worry, goof doesn't play anyway so he's okayfeem wrote: Guess someone who doesn't trust the admins of the server they play on is screwed then!
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- bandit
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
I'm fine with admin logs being public, at least the admins' contributions (names/ckeys of the ahelper can be redacted). People made the same arguments about public logs and none of the shit people predicted came remotely close to happening.
- oranges
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
remember when we thought public logs would result in people being harrassed?
- Qbopper
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
does anyone even use the public logs?oranges wrote:remember when we thought public logs would result in people being harrassed?
EDIT: also you have a point but admins are a little bit likelier of a target in this case
i still don't think it would really happen unless attention was called to it, though, so yeah
Limey wrote:its too late.
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
The truth will come out that I IC issue everything tho please!!!!!!!
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current
- ShadowDimentio
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
There shouldn't really be anything in ahelp logs people wouldn't want public besides bad behavior
Spoiler:
- Qbopper
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
i just realizedShadowDimentio wrote:There shouldn't really be anything in ahelp logs people wouldn't want public besides bad behavior
we can't make admin logs public because then the funny ahelps thread in the admin forums has no reason to exist
shit
Limey wrote:its too late.
- bandit
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
you leaked it anyway so
- Pascal125
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
If the Ahelp logs were publicized, wouldn't that cause issues with sensitive topics like ahelps about meta-friends and the like? Kind of hard to keep an eye on people for stuff like that if they can read it.
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
So the concerns are someone who has already harassed the player doing it a again, basically giving said griefer more rope to be banned for longer perhaps forever.Kor wrote:Two concerns of them being public are
-People being hassled for ahelping
-Admins being hassled for not being mean enough in ahelps after a player insists they go yell at someone
Aaaaand something admins wouldn't care about anyway because circle them wagons, slap them wrists ADMIN COMPLAINTS SHALL NOT PASS!
- Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Publicised ahelp logs how to do idea:
Public logs have ckeys and character names replaced by CKEY 1(CHARACTER 1) exceot for the admins.
(1 being replaced by whatever number the key/name is)
Public logs have ckeys and character names replaced by CKEY 1(CHARACTER 1) exceot for the admins.
(1 being replaced by whatever number the key/name is)
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
I use them to look up rounds when the admins complain about it "being hard"Qbopper wrote:does anyone even use the public logs?oranges wrote:remember when we thought public logs would result in people being harrassed?
- J_Madison
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Yeah maybe when the admins are consistent people will stop shopping for better admins to work with.
Like if Icepax tries to resolve anything sec related, I'm shopping immediately for a new admin.
Please, please, miss me with that. I wouldn't answer Niknakflak if he was Hillary Clinton and I was stuck in Benghazi, and the only way I could get out of Benghazi was to answer.
It ain't happening, like if Kevinz bwoinked me for anything cat related. Yeah no anyone else please.
Please, miss me with that. Like call up anyone, Kor, Oweg, Karp, give me anyone consistent and reasonable.
Take this on as you remember how inconsistent Joan was.
Like if Icepax tries to resolve anything sec related, I'm shopping immediately for a new admin.
Please, please, miss me with that. I wouldn't answer Niknakflak if he was Hillary Clinton and I was stuck in Benghazi, and the only way I could get out of Benghazi was to answer.
It ain't happening, like if Kevinz bwoinked me for anything cat related. Yeah no anyone else please.
Please, miss me with that. Like call up anyone, Kor, Oweg, Karp, give me anyone consistent and reasonable.
Take this on as you remember how inconsistent Joan was.
- bandit
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
except for the part where you're bannedJ_Madison wrote:Yeah maybe when the admins are consistent people will stop shopping for better admins to work with.
Like if Icepax tries to resolve anything sec related, I'm shopping immediately for a new admin.
- J_Madison
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
That's the ad hom of the century. Me being banned was not because of adminshopping and my reasons for "talking to multiple admins", was not adminshopping.bandit wrote:except for the part where you're bannedJ_Madison wrote:Yeah maybe when the admins are consistent people will stop shopping for better admins to work with.
Like if Icepax tries to resolve anything sec related, I'm shopping immediately for a new admin.
The ban is literally a 1 or a 0 that is less than a kilobyte of data. That's insignificant.
Regardless;
I think it's clear that everyone has a right to whom they wish to speak to when it comes to admins.
It's a universal right to stay silent and refuse to talk with an admin who you believe will exasperate, sabotage, or delay results for you.
The only reason this exists is because of inconsistency. Had all admins be consistent, I would feel no need and no reason to ask another admin because the result should be the same.
- Grazyn
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
They're also good when you see a feature removal PR to confirm that the coder actually died to itoranges wrote:I use them to look up rounds when the admins complain about it "being hard"Qbopper wrote:does anyone even use the public logs?oranges wrote:remember when we thought public logs would result in people being harrassed?
- Arianya
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Let us know how it goes when you refuse to talk to an admin because they're not your preferred handler, jmadJ_Madison wrote:I think it's clear that everyone has a right to whom they wish to speak to when it comes to admins.
It's a universal right to stay silent and refuse to talk with an admin who you believe will exasperate, sabotage, or delay results for you.
That was sarcasm, by the way, because you're banned.
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- J_Madison
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Went pretty well actually. My "handler" stuck a note on the guy that ahelped, and my "not preferred admin" stuck a ban on me that was appealed and the admin warned for making a shit ban.Arianya wrote:Let us know how it goes when you refuse to talk to an admin because they're not your preferred handler, jmadJ_Madison wrote:I think it's clear that everyone has a right to whom they wish to speak to when it comes to admins.
It's a universal right to stay silent and refuse to talk with an admin who you believe will exasperate, sabotage, or delay results for you.
That was sarcasm, by the way, because you're banned.
But yeah, I'll be banned. For about five more months.
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Let's please not derail this thread to talk about why a particular player was or wasn't banned.
- Qbopper
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
regardless of why jmad was banned
>player who is currently banned makes post in thread about adminshopping being shit about how he would for sure adminshop
really makes you consider the current situation
>player who is currently banned makes post in thread about adminshopping being shit about how he would for sure adminshop
really makes you consider the current situation
Limey wrote:its too late.
- J_Madison
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Yes. Inconsistent admin results.
Perhaps we should be able to rate our admin interaction from 1 to 5.
Generally speaking when the person dealing with me is a level headed, reasonable and fair admin, I like it.
Yes, absolutely do, get at me, hard swipe right for those admins, @ me and DM me with that.
But when at an admin that I know will side against me and has made their mind up already. Or admins with discrepancies or potentially biased view against me (who adminned the naked kill/banbaiting lizard, or someone who has a past of metagaming and powergaming).
No thanks, absolutely not, please miss me with that, anyone but you, Hard swipe left and blocked, don't @ me.
No hate though. Anyone can change. If an admin finds himself shopped hard maybe we should look to see if they're faulty and deserve the refund and rebate.
Perhaps we should be able to rate our admin interaction from 1 to 5.
Generally speaking when the person dealing with me is a level headed, reasonable and fair admin, I like it.
Yes, absolutely do, get at me, hard swipe right for those admins, @ me and DM me with that.
But when at an admin that I know will side against me and has made their mind up already. Or admins with discrepancies or potentially biased view against me (who adminned the naked kill/banbaiting lizard, or someone who has a past of metagaming and powergaming).
No thanks, absolutely not, please miss me with that, anyone but you, Hard swipe left and blocked, don't @ me.
No hate though. Anyone can change. If an admin finds himself shopped hard maybe we should look to see if they're faulty and deserve the refund and rebate.
- Wyzack
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
In real life it is a pile of difficult work to get a consensus with a group of people over something so subjective in a workplace setting where everyone is there because they are making money
Admins are volunteers and it is entirely unreasonable to attempt to hold them to the standards of paid professionals. I am sure many would rather leave.
This is a game. have some perspective
Admins are volunteers and it is entirely unreasonable to attempt to hold them to the standards of paid professionals. I am sure many would rather leave.
This is a game. have some perspective
Arthur Thomson says, "Since there are no admins I would loging with another account and kill you"
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tusterman11 wrote:Can you stop lying? I just asked you and you are was a piece of shiit on me!!!
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certified good poster
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
WtfJ_Madison wrote:
It ain't happening, like if Kevinz bwoinked me for anything cat related. Yeah no anyone else please.
.
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https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
Usually seen as Skylar Lineman/Mekhi Anderson.
Commissions way too much art...
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 7&p=239075 - IN GAME ADMINISTRATOR
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- Nilons
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
>Player sees another player breaking rulescedarbridge wrote:Ban minimodding tbh.
>Like the good citizen I am report it to local gestapo via ahelp button
>Fuck off minimod
>Eat 24 hour ban for trying to help admins
- Arianya
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Obviously what we should do is that when an admin has probable cause to believe a rule has been broken, he issues a perma ban and creates a thread on the forums with the listed evidence, leaving it to a headmin to make a ruling as judge jury and executioner and then modify the ban as necessary for their ruling.
This will lead to entirely reliable rulings.
Also a 7 month waiting period to get a "court date" but hey thats okay!
This will lead to entirely reliable rulings.
Also a 7 month waiting period to get a "court date" but hey thats okay!
Frequently playing as Aria Bollet on Bagil & Scary Terry
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- J_Madison
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Make a thousand valid bans and they'll call you Saegrimr but play one cat, nah no more; they'll call you a degenerate.kevinz000 wrote:WtfJ_Madison wrote:
It ain't happening, like if Kevinz bwoinked me for anything cat related. Yeah no anyone else please.
.
- cedarbridge
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Hope you posted bond with MSO on time or we repossess your computer.Arianya wrote:Obviously what we should do is that when an admin has probable cause to believe a rule has been broken, he issues a perma ban and creates a thread on the forums with the listed evidence, leaving it to a headmin to make a ruling as judge jury and executioner and then modify the ban as necessary for their ruling.
This will lead to entirely reliable rulings.
Also a 7 month waiting period to get a "court date" but hey thats okay!
- Qbopper
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
lawyers have a role againcedarbridge wrote:Hope you posted bond with MSO on time or we repossess your computer.Arianya wrote:Obviously what we should do is that when an admin has probable cause to believe a rule has been broken, he issues a perma ban and creates a thread on the forums with the listed evidence, leaving it to a headmin to make a ruling as judge jury and executioner and then modify the ban as necessary for their ruling.
This will lead to entirely reliable rulings.
Also a 7 month waiting period to get a "court date" but hey thats okay!
Limey wrote:its too late.
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
I actually don't get what's wrong with getting a second opinion if an admin neglected to intervene?iamgoofball wrote:if one admin wont ban someone for something, the easiest solution is to wait for them to DC then ahelp it again for the next admin
make this bannable
As long as you don't conceal that you already talked with an admin, and that the previous ignored you... It might be weird of me to say, but I don't see much wrong in it.
It would appear that I'm a high RP weeb who hates roleplay and anime.
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
Just be sure not to violate rule 6.Sligneris wrote: I actually don't get what's wrong with getting a second opinion if an admin neglected to intervene?
As long as you don't conceal that you already talked with an admin, and that the previous ignored you... It might be weird of me to say, but I don't see much wrong in it.
In-game administration rulings are final.
Incidences of admin abuse, negligence or disputed rulings can be taken to the forums. If an admin says something was 'looked into, handled, resolved' etc, regarding an issue, it is unlikely an admin will provide any further information. Admins are under no obligation to reveal IC information. Deliberately lying or misrepresenting facts in adminhelps will be dealt with harshly.
- cedarbridge
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Re: make adminshopping bannable
This is exactly what goof proposes. He wants a rule for a thing that already has a rule.feem wrote:Just be sure not to violate rule 6.Sligneris wrote: I actually don't get what's wrong with getting a second opinion if an admin neglected to intervene?
As long as you don't conceal that you already talked with an admin, and that the previous ignored you... It might be weird of me to say, but I don't see much wrong in it.
In-game administration rulings are final.
Incidences of admin abuse, negligence or disputed rulings can be taken to the forums. If an admin says something was 'looked into, handled, resolved' etc, regarding an issue, it is unlikely an admin will provide any further information. Admins are under no obligation to reveal IC information. Deliberately lying or misrepresenting facts in adminhelps will be dealt with harshly.
The only reason to shop for a "second opinion" is when you're so sure you're right that you need to try to find an admin to agree with you when the first one wouldn't.
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