Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers
wesoda25 wrote:Stop painting things that aren’t an issue as an issue
4dplanner wrote:wesoda25 wrote:Stop painting things that aren’t an issue as an issue
You should probably give an argument.
wesoda25 wrote:A 50% block chance isn’t some horrific game mechanic.
wesoda25 wrote:Nuke ops are given ridiculously OP gear, and a lot of it too.
wesoda25 wrote:The crew isn’t supposed to be easily cut down, there is supposed to be sacrifice and good combat.
WarbossLincoln wrote:They're clear right? Make them not stop lasers or disablers, like windows.
donutstation wrote:WarbossLincoln wrote:They're clear right? Make them not stop lasers or disablers, like windows.
Actually...
D&B wrote:Maybe make the riot shield slow you down since you have to deploy and brace yourself?
Kel wrote:riot shields are one of the lesser offending RNG mechanics in the game, and if you're basing your whole argument on "rng mechanic bad" then i hope you're ready to form your crusade against:
the disarm intent
the harm intent
dual wielded firearms
sharp weapons
breakable bottles
ablative vests
RTA
radiation
explosions
various emp interactions
various chemicals
various wizard spells
blob chems
the list goes on but this is just what popped in my head for things that hinge on rng entirely as a mechanic and are entirely weaponize-able or are strictly a combat mechanic in the first place
Kel wrote:riot shields are one of the lesser offending RNG mechanics in the game, and if you're basing your whole argument on "rng mechanic bad" then i hope you're ready to form your crusade against:
the disarm intent
the harm intent
dual wielded firearms
sharp weapons
breakable bottles
ablative vests
RTA
radiation
explosions
various emp interactions
various chemicals
various wizard spells
blob chems
D&B wrote:Maybe make the riot shield slow you down since you have to deploy and brace yourself?
oranges wrote:give them an overall health so they eventually break.
give them plenty of melee/brute damage resist, but make them weaker to energy weapons
should be easy enough.
Stickymayhem wrote:you're right!
donutstation wrote:I unironically think that on nuke op rounds a 16 TC energy shield gets outclassed by a (MAT_METAL = 4000, MAT_GLASS = 4000, MAT_SILVER = 300, MAT_TITANIUM = 200) teleshield (not sure if it's intended but from what i've tested energy shields have 0 chance of blocking non energy based attacks).
donutstation wrote:That's way more than any roundstart armor in the game considering they also negate stun/stamina attacks and for most of the antags/jobs there is no reliable hard counter (reminder that "just throw an explosive lance at them" is not an argument) to someone holding a riot shield, you just have to run away or hope for the worst type of rng to work in your favor which is a terrible game design.
PKPenguin321 wrote:As a note, Kor while he was the head maintainer said we could never add anything that gives you a third arm to the game because having two riot shields + a weapon would make you way too hard to kill. If we can reasonably nerf riot shields, maybe 2+ arms could be a thing.
I strongly suspected the borgs were one humaned by the Captain because of their increasingly strange behavior throughout the round after the Captain had entered their upload and seemingly changed the laws. I had asked twice if I could blow the borgs to no response (because there was no admin online apparently). They were constantly complimenting the Captain and calling her pretty and essentially threatening people who called the Captain ugly - Pepper Oni.
angelstarri wrote:1 item should not give you an insane advantage enough to kill 8 other people in a 3x3 room (ask imsxz)
angelstarri wrote:1 item should not give you an insane advantage enough to kill 8 other people in a 3x3 room (ask imsxz)
Karp wrote:The only thing I'd agree with is the laser thing but I'd have to ask what advantage energy weapons offer over ballistics to justify that realism+nerf, as energy weapons already go through windows and grilles and over sec barriers where ballistics do not, not forgetting to mention how much easier it is to get ammo for a laser weapon than it is a ballistic weapon, while all ballistic weapons really get are unique ammo types which are generally too costly for non ops. The opposite might be the better change(Strength of the bullet rips through the riot shield while lasers get deflected off of the ablative coating and melee weapons bounce off the naturally stabproof shield) though that'd nerf it against ops
Dr_bee wrote:Karp wrote:The only thing I'd agree with is the laser thing but I'd have to ask what advantage energy weapons offer over ballistics to justify that realism+nerf, as energy weapons already go through windows and grilles and over sec barriers where ballistics do not, not forgetting to mention how much easier it is to get ammo for a laser weapon than it is a ballistic weapon, while all ballistic weapons really get are unique ammo types which are generally too costly for non ops. The opposite might be the better change(Strength of the bullet rips through the riot shield while lasers get deflected off of the ablative coating and melee weapons bounce off the naturally stabproof shield) though that'd nerf it against ops
I would argue that ballistic ammo is easier to get since the removal of inducer laser recharging.
Even with public autolathes gone, ammo is still easy to get via them, and you arent restricted by location or a 30 second recharge time.
If you think lasers are in any way better than ballistics you are wrong. AP inherent in ballistic ammo alone is broken.
Karp wrote:
AP is stupid because the people who reduced the damage on AP bullets for most guns didnt reduce shots to kill on literally every AP Gun so AP is just a straight upgrade if you can ever afford it
Upgraded rechargers are pretty quick but you do have to carry all of the ammo on you for ballistics, you can carry a backpack full of laser guns and no belt can really carry ammo outside of nuke op belts
Dr_bee wrote:The ability to carry ammo at all is a benefit, ammo is significantly smaller than entire lasers, letting you carry more ammo. Reloading on the fly is still exceedingly powerful. And armor penetration is not just in the special AP bullets, it is in regular bullets as well.
Bullet AP is on top of the fact that most armors have reduced bullet armor compared to its other armors, means that even ballistic armor might as well be wet paper against anything besides buckshot.
Also there are 4 belt options for carrying ammo. Bandoleers, shoulder holsters, fanny packs, and the multi-belt on metastation. So even then you can carry more ammo in that slot for ballistics than you could for laser guns.
Laser guns need buffs, not nerfs. They are an inferior weapon all around. Also Armor pen on ranged weapons is a shit mechanic as ranged weapons already have their own armor type. Stacking armor for ballistics is stupidly difficult, and I should know, I pull armor stacking memes all the time.
I strongly suspected the borgs were one humaned by the Captain because of their increasingly strange behavior throughout the round after the Captain had entered their upload and seemingly changed the laws. I had asked twice if I could blow the borgs to no response (because there was no admin online apparently). They were constantly complimenting the Captain and calling her pretty and essentially threatening people who called the Captain ugly - Pepper Oni.
angelstarri wrote:Okay gamers if I get out traded one more time as a nuke op with assault gear by one slightly assisty boy with a riot shield and a stun baton I am going to lose it
Stickymayhem wrote:you're right!
Gamarr wrote:They're one of the few ways of defending yourself and making sure an attack is blocked barring moving and dodging it.
BeeSting12 wrote:Here's my idea to make riot shields slightly more skill based and less based on chance. They won't be the go-to weapon for every situation now, but they'd be specialized for rev rounds and situations where you need to defend one location.
1. Riot shields have limited health. Let's call it 100 for our purposes. 5 autorifle bullets or a couple .357s would destroy it. The riot shield isn't meant for defending against bullets, it's meant for riots. Melee attacks would still do damage to the shield, but 3/4 as much as anything else.
2. Riot shields block 100% of melee attacks from the front, 25% from the sides, 0% from the rear. Makes it more skill based than the flat RNG chance while still incorporating RNG.
3. Energy weapons are highly effective against riot shields- lasers, disablers, pulses, etc. go straight through it. Electrodes do not, to keep consistency with how lasers and windows behave.
4. Add the ability to brace with the riot shield. Blocks all attacks from the front, covers your whole body. However, this makes it really slow to move, and you can't turn- just move forward, strafe, and back. Bracing takes 2 seconds.
5. Teleshields carry all of the above properties, but 1.5x health and bracing takes less time. and ofc they can go in bags.
6. Add Tactical Reflective Shields: made primarily of iron with a titanium coating and glass window, they reflect energy weapons completely. As a trade off, their health is only 50- a few from an autorifle or shotgun would devastate this shield and the player behind it.
BeeSting12 wrote:5. Teleshields carry all of the above properties, but 1.5x health and bracing takes less time. and ofc they can go in bags.
I strongly suspected the borgs were one humaned by the Captain because of their increasingly strange behavior throughout the round after the Captain had entered their upload and seemingly changed the laws. I had asked twice if I could blow the borgs to no response (because there was no admin online apparently). They were constantly complimenting the Captain and calling her pretty and essentially threatening people who called the Captain ugly - Pepper Oni.
Stickymayhem wrote:you're right!
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